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So, me and 3 others usually play 2v2's and the teams are Tau/Eldar vs SM/Orks or SM/SM. I have SM and Orks and my partner uses whatever I have. My friend and I got spanked rather badly the other night because they decided to play a 1000pt all tau army. I am wondering what type of units my friend and I should carry (Out of what I currently have, as well as give suggestions as to what we should get) against the heavy firepower of the tau and the fast attack on eldar. Almost every battlesuit has a plasma rifle which cuts the marines armour like a hobby knife through paper.

The Tau has this list:
The Tau:
HQ
XV88 Battlesuit (Airbursting fragmentation projector, Vectored Retro-thrusters, Plasma Rifle, Aridium Armor, Multi Tracker) Some of these may be off but I believe that's his wargear. It's something ridiculous like 170 pts almost.

Elites
XV25 Stealth Suits (3x Targeting Array, 2x burst cannons, Fusion Blaster, Marker Drone. Team Leader has hardwired drone controller)
XV8 Battlesuit (Missle Pod, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator)
XV8 Battlesuit (Twin-linked Burst Cannon, Hardwired multitracker, Targeting Array)

Troops
2x Fire Warrior Squad with Marker light
Kroot with 2x kroothounds, Shaper, and Krootox

Heavy Support
XV88 Broadside Battlesuit (Twin-linked Smart Missile System, Twin-linked Railguns, Targeting Array)

He also has a pirahna and a lot of drones

Our Army

Ork List:

HQ
Warboss (PK, Bosspole)
Weirdboy (Warphead)

Elites
5x Nobs

Troops

30 Shoota Boyz (PK, Bosspole, 3x Big Shootas)
24 Slugga Boyz (PK, Bosspole)

Fast Attack
Deffkopta (Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha)
Deffkopta (Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha)
Deffkopta (Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha)


SM List:

HQ
Captain (Lightning Claw)
Librarian (Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter)

Elites
5x Terminators (Storm bolters, 4x PF, PW)
Dreadnought (Multi-Melta, Storm Bolter, dread CC weapon)

Troops
Space Marine Squad (Flamer, Missile Launcher)
Space Marine Squad (Flamer, Missile Launcher)
Space Marine Squad (Meltagun)
Scout Squad (Sniper Rifles)


I would just like an army that can consistently do well against my friends because the boneage has been pretty bad. I have a feeling it's our table because there is a lot of difficult terrain so it's slow moving. but it gives a ton of cover for my orks

you need a fast mobile army, once you pin them in combat tau have lost allready.
im 100% sure even small kopta units can take on pretty much anything in the tau army.

So what would you suggest? I was thinking throwing some troops and dreadnought in drop pods to tie up the squads or bust battlesuits as I advance my orkz and the rest of the SM's towards the enemy.

Concerning your Marines.....
Sorry, not good with orks
Throw some Drop Pods with Sternguard w/combi-meltas.

If you got three squads of them, take Pablo to make 'em scoring.

That should take care of about anything they'll be throwin' at ya, specially tau.

When they play eldar, it's basically the same thing, just wreck their big stuff with the sternguard and you're not wasting scoring units

Common thing I've seen with eldar/tau is that their regular guys are guardsmen with slightly better equipment, mostly same stats.

Unless you're playing huge games, take sternguard over termies. They are worth a lot more especially when you put 'em in pods with some kind of combis.

Common working list i see with SM have Pablo, minimul troops until sternguard are fully pointed with sternguard dropping in pods. Three five man squads does pretty well, spending only a little more points than 2 full tac squads which are gonna do what? Smurfmarines have nothing in HtH still, which sucks IMO. Sternguard usually work

Also, it seems like you're rollin' with the blackreach stuff, it's real easy to just use normal marines as sternguard then once you buy some boxes of normal guys, you can make combi meltas real easy and regular plasma do just fine in tac squads because its range coincides with the other regular tacs, just adds more punch, where regular meltas just take one long range weapon out of your shooty squad and makes you feel like you gotta run up with 'em at something, which isn't a bad idea but combi plasmas aren't worth it.

Nenya97 wrote:Concerning your Marines.....
Sorry, not good with orks
Throw some Drop Pods with Sternguard w/combi-meltas.

If you got three squads of them, take Pablo to make 'em scoring.

That should take care of about anything they'll be throwin' at ya, specially tau.

When they play eldar, it's basically the same thing, just wreck their big stuff with the sternguard and you're not wasting scoring units

Common thing I've seen with eldar/tau is that their regular guys are guardsmen with slightly better equipment, mostly same stats.

Unless you're playing huge games, take sternguard over termies. They are worth a lot more especially when you put 'em in pods with some kind of combis.

Common working list i see with SM have Pablo, minimul troops until sternguard are fully pointed with sternguard dropping in pods. Three five man squads does pretty well, spending only a little more points than 2 full tac squads which are gonna do what? Smurfmarines have nothing in HtH still, which sucks IMO. Sternguard usually work

Also, it seems like you're rollin' with the blackreach stuff, it's real easy to just use normal marines as sternguard then once you buy some boxes of normal guys, you can make combi meltas real easy and regular plasma do just fine in tac squads because its range coincides with the other regular tacs, just adds more punch, where regular meltas just take one long range weapon out of your shooty squad and makes you feel like you gotta run up with 'em at something, which isn't a bad idea but combi plasmas aren't worth it.

Ok, lets see if I can make sense of everything you said. First off, by Pablo do you mean Pedro Kantor? Also, I have a 3 total tactical squads. Should I break them up into 2 sternguard veteran squads and equip them with plasma gun and multi-melta, as well as a PF? Or should I ignore a PF on the sergeant? Can I even use tactical squads as sternguards..I mean the models are practically the same thing.

I don't want to offend you, but you lost because both your lists suck. Sorry to be blunt, but it's the truth. You don't use 2 HQs unless you got a VERY GOOD reason to do so.

I assume you got a couple AOBR sets and bought some stuff. What you need is vehicles.

Orks: sadly the AoBR set isn't amazing for Orks. Go either with Killa Kan spam (I'm doing this with my orks, 8 or 9 kans with zookas, 2x20 shootas, lootas and a KFF Big Mek to cover save and obscure) or Kult of Speed with 3+ trukks and maybe a Battlewagon. If you absolutely must use what you have, take big mobs of Slugga Boyz with a KFF Mek for protection, a mob of Kommandos with Snikrot to keep them away from the edges and run for melee. Cheap dreads (2xSkorcha for example) or Killa Kans are good. The Nobs are not good on foot. Koptas are crap, dismantle them for bits.

Space Marines: AOBR is great for them tho. You should get Rhinos for at least 2 squads ASAP. Multi Meltas and Flamers are great for midfield but Missile Launchers will do I guess. A pair of Dreads are also good for midfield, Multi-Melta with Heavy Flamer or not. Shooty Terminators are not so good but they can be your ranged support while you get Predators (HB ones for 85 pts, good stuff).

If you play both armies, I'd do this:

Orks: 1000 Pts

Big Mek @ 115 Pts
KFF; PK; 'eavy Armour

30 Slugga Boyz @ 220 Pts
Nob; PK; Bosspole

30 Slugga Boyz @ 220 Pts
Nob; PK; Bosspole

15 Kommandos @ 265 Pts
Burna x2; Snikrot

2 Killa Kan @ 90 Pts
Grotzooka x2

2 Killa Kan @ 90 Pts
Grotzooka x2


Space Marines: 1000 Pts

Librarian @ 130 Pts
Null Zone; The Avenger; Terminator Armour; Force Weapon; Storm Bolter

5 Terminator Squad @ 200 Pts

1 Dreadnought @ 105 Pts
Multi-Melta; Storm Bolter

1 Dreadnought @ 105 Pts
Multi-Melta; Storm Bolter

10 Tactical Squad @ 230 Pts
Multi-Melta; Flamer; Power Fist; Rhino

10 Tactical Squad @ 230 Pts
Multi-Melta; Flamer; Power Fist; Rhino


Put the orks as close to the enemy as you can and have the marines go behind. You get a +5 cover save from the KFF on the orks, the marines a +4 cover save from the orks. In an ideal situation with little terrain you can put the kans up front (+4 obscure save from KFF), boyz behind (+4 cover save from kans), marines behind (+4 cover save from boyz). Things are never that easy tho. Anyway, cover makes plasma less useful. Concentrate your marines' fire on whatever is causing you the most problems, like the plasma units, just shoot it DEAD. Once the orks make it into CC it should be an easy battle.

Hope that helps.

PS: The Kans can be scratch built, the AoBR nobs can be used for the KFF Mek model and the Kommandos. You could also ask around if you can pass your Slugga Boyz for Shootas if you chop the choppas (they look weird tho). A captain can pass for a Libby easy, and you can use the Terminator sgt with the captain banner (and other misc) for a terminator libby.

I bought 1 AOBR box set, 2-3 boxes of boyz, a box of unassembled stormboyz, a weirdboy, a termy librarian, scouts, and I had 2 tac squads already.

One clarification. The gameboard we play on is riddle with difficult terrain and 4+ cover saves. I really don't need to screen at all. The only time we have to is when we enter an open area. My partner sucked it up because he barely moved as I advanced. I kind of have 2 blame it on my partner but it happens.

I'm thinking of just doing a huge Footslogging list. try and get two squads of lootas, maybe go for 2 Meks with KFF. You say slugga boyz, but why not use shoota boyz? Is it because your screening with orks and just hoping they lock into an assault. How can the Nobz be used for the KFF Mek model and Kommands. Provide a link please or thread please.

The space marines I planned on just making some passing off some of my marines as sternguard vets and drop them in and fast rape broadsuits. Although Snikrot and kommandos could do that themselves if I had the models. Do you emphasize Powerfists on the sergeant as well?

I said Sluggas just because I thought you had all sluggas from AoBR sets. I always use shootas when on foot.

My work in progress for the KFF Mek (http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7463/1000737zx2.jpg)

The kommandos I would imagine I'd just improvise camo on the nobs. I haven't done it cuz I don't use them, just shootas, lootas and 9 kans (1000 pts).

As for Space Marines... Sternguard aren't meant to melee, and dropping them aggressively will only get them killed. This is Stelek's sterguard list

Stelek wrote:2xLibrarians w/Null Zone + Gate of Infinity.
2xtactical squads, flamer/multi-melta, Drop Pod w/Locator Beacon + Deathwind.
3xsternguard squads w/8 combi-meltas, Drop Pod w/Locator Beacon + Deathwind.

And no, I usually don't use PFs on my sgts, I just had the points. You can do as you please.

What gun is that on your KFF and is that a PK off of the gun itself? Do you have a picture of is backside too?

*computer was being stupid and wouldn't send. Sorry for the double post *

you should do ok just try and take out the xv88

It's a Burna from the Loota & Burna box. It used to be just a KFF + Burna, but decided that KFF + PK is more valuable. The Loota box also has a Mek head, which is where I pulled that head antenna from. The claws are made of sprue.

This is a side shot before I decided to change the klaw http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2520/1000733amp4.jpg

As a Tau player, deffkoptas are the most annoying thing you can throw out.

Give them rockit luanchers and then they will be perfect for killing suits. Also, when they go their full move, they get their insane cover save.

Prophet of Dakka wrote:It's a Burna from the Loota & Burna box. It used to be just a KFF + Burna, but decided that KFF + PK is more valuable. The Loota box also has a Mek head, which is where I pulled that head antenna from. The claws are made of sprue.

This is a side shot before I decided to change the klaw http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2520/1000733amp4.jpg

That picture shows more clearly that the PK is on a separate hand. Your first image (the one from the front) looked like it was attached to the gun. I'm glad I don't have 2 buy the metal model now.

The Bringer wrote:As a Tau player, deffkoptas are the most annoying thing you can throw out.

Give them rockit luanchers and then they will be perfect for killing suits. Also, when they go their full move, they get their insane cover save.

I might keep my deffkoptas because I've had them do some good damage because the rokkits are TL'ed. I've killed a few tanks & instant deathed my friends HQ a couple of times.

Make sure he's not rerolling shots from the Smart Missile System. There are no Twin-linked Smart Missile systems to be had at all. .

@ Ubersnax: That's nice. That seemed a tad strong. I'll point that out to him next game. I honestly don't think he's completely read the tau codex and is just pulling stuff out of his ass. Could you tell me what page states the Smart Missile System in the Tau Codex?

Yeah, I was talking prolly about Pedro, sorry. At my FLGS they all call him Pablo so Pedro must be his real name.

I was saying put plasmas in the tac squads and put combimeltas in the sternguard.

When you get a plastic sprue of tac marines you get a plasma and a melta. Use the plasma in the tac squads then convert one of the bolters into combi-meltas with the melta parts.

The AoBR marines are really hard to convert because they have little to no parts. so when you open a box of 10 tac marines....
Make a plasma dude.
Make a converted multi-melta dude out of the melta/boltgun in the box.
Now is where it gets confusing (IMO, If someone said this to me it wouldn't make sense)
Now you have a 10 man squad with 2 special weapons, oh crap!
So take one of your AoBR guys and switch him with the guy with a multi-melta.
It will look weird but once you get a whole squad of sternguard multi-meltas it will look cool.

You can always ask other gamers in the area also for parts they don't use to help make them faster.

My last post was very unclear. My bad. I was probably really tired and was my last post before passing out.

Thanks Nenya97. You're saying to switch out a bolter from the AOBR and put in the multi-melta?