Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If you know about the hidden plague that is DRM then post your views. Personally I want to see it banned. I sent this info in an email to a consumer watchdog (removed obvious stuff eg dear sir/madam) What do you guys think?

I recently purchased Red Alert 3 for PC and have only just realised that it contains the DRM software SecuROM. There is no mention of SecuROM/DRM on the packaging or in the terms and conditions. It is installed automatically and is required for gameplay, but it is not actually developed by EA. It then buries itself in the system folders on your computer where it stays hidden, similar to malware. It is not removed when I uninstal the game but remains, and it send EA information about my computer over the internet. Furthermore EA do not produce a facility to uninstal the software. Instead you must download a third-party piece of software to remove it. Is this legal and what are my rights as a consumer?

i can understand in principle why EA are doing it, but completely agree with you.... i bought saints row the other week to be confrinted by steam.... i knew it needed an internet connection to acctivate, fine, but does it need to log on all the time to play?

and btw unless you have fully tooken in the Ts n Cs you cant c omplaign... if you agree without reading them you are in breach of them.... so before you go any further look at the agreement for the game... because if it mentions the DRM in any way then you cant realy do anything about it....

Except butch and moan to EA! they sould give you a tool aproved by them to un install it with the game.... but sadly i recon it would get butchered to take the software and not the game off...

I downloaded ea's t and c's off the net, cos thats where it says to get them, and there is no mention of DRM/SecuROM there. ran a search using word. and I searched for things like rights etc to check fully.

so theres nothing about monitoring software or secutirt software?(minus the bad spellings) and if they dont mention anything then its ilegal, if you need more information on how it is feel free to look up "Computer misuse act" (i cant remember what year, possably 1998 or 2000....) because without permition taking any data from ur computer or anything for ANY use.... then BAM slap a complaint on there ass! (and go on C&Cs chat thing and tell others to do so too, mount the complaints up!!)

Yeah, i stopped buying PC games a long time ago.

whenever i bought a PC game, my more computer-savvy mate would already have a copy he downloaded. Furthermore, he didn't have to be on steam/windows live/etc to play it.

I still buy games but only for my PS3, if i want a PC game, i download it.

BTW, this is what almost everyone who knows how does. Is there any games that have successfully prevented pirating with increased copy protection???

What is DRM? I haven't bought a PC game for awhile and I HATE console games, so it sounds like my days of computer gaming are over.

warpcrafter wrote:What is DRM? I haven't bought a PC game for awhile and I HATE console games, so it sounds like my days of computer gaming are over.

DRM = Digital Rights Management

Its always primarily been used with mp3's and basically dictates when and how you can listen/play the song. Weather you can transfer the songs to another computer, what mp3 players you can play them on, etc...

Over the past few years, more and more PC games have come packaged with some sort of DRM, dictating how the game can be installed/played. Minor examples being online activation of a CD key in order to validate your install, to the latest requiring an active internet connection in order to play (including single player) or in the case of the OP, installing invasive tracking software that may or may not be considered malware.

Last year's game Spore was a good example of DRM gone amok. The serial key had to be registered online each time you installed the game, and after 3 installations, a block was place, preventing the game from installing at all, and thus leaving the person unable to play. No matter that it may be a legally obtained game, and maybe they just had to format their hard drive a few times over the months for other problems. Once 3 installations was recorded, game over.

I feel almost lucky in the fact that with a 4+ year old computer, I'm basically unable to play any of the latest games coming out these days. This basically shields me from the annoyance of companies like EA and their crazy DRM policy. All publishers should take a page from Stardock. Their game 'Sins of a Solar Empire' was shipped with no DRM WHATSOEVER. A serial key is required in order to download the updates and play online, but other than that you could install the game on any number of friends computers and they would all run perfectly. How can any company ship a game with no DRM and expect to succeed? Not only did it gain very reputable sales figures, check the major gaming magazines 'Best Games of 08' lists. Sins of a Solar Empire garnered the reputation as basically the best PC game released in 08

its protective software,

and if you download a game for free then your a nob(and not an ork) would you steal a game from a shop? most likly not.... and if you say yes to be acward have a digital slap....
its like downloadin music... if you get it free your not givin money to the company to pay for there work, and ur not gona get many more games that way. cos if everone did that then all games companys would go bust real quick.... except blizz... cos they theaf n steal everything they can...

Thanks for the info. It looks like I'll stick to the miniatures. By the way, IRPURPLE, I don't know what country you're from, but surely you could find some better translation software. At least I hope you don't type that way on purpose.

I don't blame EA for wanting to cut down on piracy but it doesn't seem like they've fully thought their ideas through. Personally I wait until prices have dropped a little, then buy legit copies.

hey could it be something like that which is bugging my avast? I bought and installed left 4 dead a few weeks ago now and avast hasn't been happy since.

DoctorKnockers wrote:
BTW, this is what almost everyone who knows how does. Is there any games that have successfully prevented pirating with increased copy protection???

The goal of DRM nowadays is not to prevent pirating wholesale, but to prevent zero day or pre-release pirating so that people will buy the game instead. Steam can be said to prevent pirating due to ease of use as well.

Now, when you make a royal mess of a release like the recent Empire: Total War debacle where pirates were getting a faster download speed than Steam with no preload period, that's when you might as well not bother with DRM.

I don't like the pc as much as the xbox 360, but I still buy games like Half-Life and Team fortress 2 just because I like being able to use a mouse. Steam is irritating and all, but DRM isn't going to stop me from a certain format of gaming that I enjoy.

I personally hate piracy, its not the reason at all that i'm complaining about DRM. I buy all my music as CDs etc, but what i'm opposed to is that in this case, the vast majority of honest people are losing out to those who have no respect for the laws. DRM also means that games have no resale value, so the trade in market will go for PC gaming. If EA were more forgiving and open about DRM i would have no problem but instead they sneak it in. I bought the game, i want to be able to play it without invasive software. DRM has no effect on piracy. Spore was hacked before the release date! If they require a CD key upon instalation thats fine, shows its a legit copy and not a download, but they should not then limit instalations, since you bought the game. CDs dont have a limit to how many times you listen to them, why should games? Also, my brother can't register an online account as it is only one per game. This again seems a bit unfair.

One 'bonus' with DRM is that you don't need a disk in the drive. [sarcasm]this is something that has plagued me for years because i don't keep my games near my pc and neither does anyone else i know[/sarcasm] If games required the disk and were copy-protected then there would be no need for DRM since you could only play with the disk. There: i should work for EA, then they'd make money and not alienate customers!

Sorry if you think i'm whinging on about this but it is a particularly sore spot for me(along with the agegist, draconian, facist, right reducing mosquito device)

Cheers

Needing a disk to be played is no protection - you can mount an image of the disk on a virtual drive.

A lot of times it's even more convenient and easier to do so. Especially with 300+ gig hard drives.

How do you create a virtual drive and mount an image on it with vista64bit?

Do what everyone else does.

Buy a legal copy then download a cracked version so you don't have to wade through the DRM.

Lol, yeah cos if the companies decide to follow up then you have proof of purchase anyway!!!

I actually want to creat a virtual drive for my legally owned drm free games so that I dont have to listen to my cd drive

Kilkrazy wrote:Do what everyone else does.

Buy a legal copy then download a cracked version so you don't have to wade through the DRM.

Bingo. There was even a time when a company (Ubisoft was it?) actually used a cracked version of the game as part of a patch without crediting the creator and all sorts of drama and fun was to be had.

I actually want to creat a virtual drive for my legally owned drm free games so that I dont have to listen to my cd drive

This is why I adore Steam. Download anywhere, non-intrusive DRM as long as you have the internet....

You're all terrorists. Don't you know piracy supports terrorism? Don't you know that pirates ARE terrorists? Don't you know that pirates don't eat oranges?

Heh heh. Half-Life 2 was supposed to be the best damned game... but Steam... the terror! I got banned from from the steam forums several times for voicing my opinions on this. SecuROM is a load of crap. I buy games that I want to play online, id est the games I want to play a lot. In the end, HL2 wasn't one of them anyway.

WeeHessy wrote:Lol, yeah cos if the companies decide to follow up then you have proof of purchase anyway!!!

I actually want to creat a virtual drive for my legally owned drm free games so that I dont have to listen to my cd drive

http://www.daemon-tools.cc/home is the site for you m'friend.