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Hey all. im not sure when or who I heard this from (some one at my lgs)

Apparently some one told him that if a model has a 1+ or even a 0+ armor save they cannot be hurt.

Now as far as im aware ( and this is what I told him) That a roll of a 1 on an armour save always fails regardless of the armour value of a model. the +1 and +0 only matter for str modifiers. ( I.E if I have 7 str on a +0 save you would be at +4)

Is this correct?

Yes the roll of a 1 is always failed. The strength of the attack takes away some of the bonuses. If high enough can even make a 0 in to a 6. Possibly even take away any possible saves. Whoever told you that needs to reread the rules.

Oh I told him correctly. It seems this local gaming group that started up in town has alot of players that aren't playing by the rules correctly.

Apparently one of the members told this same friend of mine that you have to remove models from under the blast template when allocating wounds, rather the anywhere in the squad.

Course this is a 40k rule so it probably shouldn't be in here but oh well.

With templates (from stone throwers and the like) all models under the template are effected. If a character is effected by this than he can make a look out sir roll to avoid getting hit by it. If he fails then he is affected by the shot as normal. Also when it comes to removing casualties you remove from the back of the unit and maintain the same formation that the unit started with.

Um that was a 40k one about the templates not fantasy...

in 5th ed a 1+ armour save made it impossible to hurt the character or unit with less than a strength of 4. But back then you couldn't get better than a 1+ by rule. 6th ed changed that. Maybe those you refer to just never got the memo.....

Golga wrote:Apparently one of the members told this same friend of mine that you have to remove models from under the blast template when allocating wounds, rather the anywhere in the squad.

Course this is a 40k rule so it probably shouldn't be in here but oh well.

thats old school... now you take them from anywhere

Oldblood with Enchanted shield, light armour and cold one.

1+ and 0+ saves only exist in Fantasy. An attack needs to be at least Strength 4 in order to have a chance of wounding a model with a 1+ save.

Cheese Elemental wrote:1+ and 0+ saves only exist in Fantasy. An attack needs to be at least Strength 4 in order to have a chance of wounding a model with a 1+ save.

1 always fails.

But logically, 1+/0+ means that you will always pass your armour saves unless the attacking model has high strength. Otherwise, why are they there?

For str modifiers and the reduction of an armour save. That's about the only reason.

With 0+ or 1+ armour saves you do not need high strength to defeat the model(s). 20 shots can make you roll a lot of dice and then you have to avoid the 1's.

Cheese Elemental wrote:But logically, 1+/0+ means that you will always pass your armour saves unless the attacking model has high strength. Otherwise, why are they there?

A 1 will ALWAYS fails an model's armor save.

The benefit is that a 1+ AS model will still succeed on a 2+ v. S4. A 0+ even against S5.

Cheese Elemental wrote:But logically, 1+/0+ means that you will always pass your armour saves unless the attacking model has high strength. Otherwise, why are they there?

But, unfortunately the rules say on page 29 (BFSP book, it's the only one I have at the moment) say that a 1 always fails. read the bit under 'maximum save'.

-1 saves pass on 2's against S6.

A Khorne Champion can have a -1 save with a Juggernought (+3), Chaos Armor (4+) and Enchanted Shield (+2).

Of course any rolls of a 1 regardless of save/modifiers is a failed save. Cheese is wrong.

The roll of a one is always a failure period end no debate.

nieto666 wrote:The roll of a one is always a failure period end no debate.

I hate to nitpick, but there is one 'save' that will pass on a 1 and fail on a 6. It's the Dark Elf 'Pendant of Khaeleth'.

True nothing wrong with that. Thats why its a "reverse" save.

JohnOSpencer wrote:

nieto666 wrote:The roll of a one is always a failure period end no debate.

I hate to nitpick, but there is one 'save' that will pass on a 1 and fail on a 6. It's the Dark Elf 'Pendant of Khaeleth'.

Has this now been confirmed? Because last I heard, this was up in the air because the rules state that a roll of a 1 on a save always fails... I understand the reasoning (and agree a 1 should save with the Pendant), but I can understand the argument.

And yes, I know who I'm speaking to :p I was just wondering if there's been an "official" GW answer published.

Aelyn wrote:And yes, I know who I'm speaking to :p I was just wondering if there's been an "official" GW answer published.

Yep, check the DE FAQ.

- Salvage

Khorne Lord, Chaos Armour (4+ save) Enchanted Shield (+2 to save) and Juggernaught (+3 to save) giving you a -1 save.

Hard, but not match for killing blow (Choppy choppy!) as my opponent found out the hard way, when I got two in from one batch of attacks.

Aelyn wrote:

JohnOSpencer wrote:

nieto666 wrote:The roll of a one is always a failure period end no debate.

I hate to nitpick, but there is one 'save' that will pass on a 1 and fail on a 6. It's the Dark Elf 'Pendant of Khaeleth'.

Has this now been confirmed? Because last I heard, this was up in the air because the rules state that a roll of a 1 on a save always fails... I understand the reasoning (and agree a 1 should save with the Pendant), but I can understand the argument.

And yes, I know who I'm speaking to :p I was just wondering if there's been an "official" GW answer published.

I wouldn't have posted that otherwise.
Around here, I'm just another guy. I save all my 'official' rulings for work.

Really the only reason for stacking AS like that is because everyone and their mother has at least S5 which is a -2AS leaving you at at healthy (maybe) 2 or 3+ AS (from 0+, 1+ respectively) on Lord/Hero level characters

JohnOSpencer wrote:

Aelyn wrote:

JohnOSpencer wrote:

nieto666 wrote:The roll of a one is always a failure period end no debate.

I hate to nitpick, but there is one 'save' that will pass on a 1 and fail on a 6. It's the Dark Elf 'Pendant of Khaeleth'.

Has this now been confirmed? Because last I heard, this was up in the air because the rules state that a roll of a 1 on a save always fails... I understand the reasoning (and agree a 1 should save with the Pendant), but I can understand the argument.

And yes, I know who I'm speaking to :p I was just wondering if there's been an "official" GW answer published.

I wouldn't have posted that otherwise.
Around here, I'm just another guy. I save all my 'official' rulings for work.

Or when I yell "HEY JON....." right?