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Hello All,

Long time lurker, first time poster. So if this question has been already beat to death then please just point me to the correct thread.

I understand that the latest version of the codex is always what players go by. But what happens when one part of your codex is updated by a differant codex. Specifically I am talking about the Land Raider in the Witch Hunters codex. If one includes a Land Raider in their Witch Hunters army (as the Inquisitors retinue transport) which profile does it use? The one in the Witch Hunters codex or the Latest version of the SM codex? This is particularly relevant because of the increase in the number of models the Land Raider holds in the SM codex, and of course the changes to the Machine Sprit rules.

Nurgle's Head Cheese wrote: But what happens when one part of your codex is updated by a differant codex.

It's not. GW's current policy is for each codex to be completely stand-alone. You use what's in your own codex, regardless of what previously identical items have been changed to in other codexes.

It also works to your advantage in some ways. Yes, your assault cannons are only heavy 3 non-rending, but your psychic hoods work across the entire board and you can use more than one on the same psychic power.

insaniak wrote:

Nurgle's Head Cheese wrote: But what happens when one part of your codex is updated by a differant codex.

It's not. GW's current policy is for each codex to be completely stand-alone. You use what's in your own codex, regardless of what previously identical items have been changed to in other codexes.

True, but the latest Space Marine FAQ says that if you ask your opponent nicely they should allow you use the Land Raider rules in the new codex.

insaniak wrote:

Nurgle's Head Cheese wrote: But what happens when one part of your codex is updated by a differant codex.

It's not. GW's current policy is for each codex to be completely stand-alone. You use what's in your own codex, regardless of what previously identical items have been changed to in other codexes.

I felt a great disturbance in the force, it's as if millions of Dark Angels players cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced....
At least their Chaplains still get "Litanies of Hate" instead of the wimpy new "Litanies of Battle"

It can work to your advantage in some cases though...I just played a Witch Hunters list for the first time today and had to have their version of "Hit and Run" explained to me.

GW policy is "Each codex is entirely and 100% self contained (other than that altered by official errata) and used as printed (exceptions being the Space Wolves and use of Allied/Inducted Units via the Daemonhunters/Witchhunters codex's) and uses the rules as described in that codex alone, even if there is a similarly named item in another codex (unless specifically altered by Errata)"

This is a change from their old "Newest published takes precedence" policy they had some years ago.

Note that GW have also giving the wishywashy stance of "If your opponent lets you" which is kind of an insult when you look at it because the whole game is opponent permission only (what are you gonna do if someone doesn't want to play your Blood Angels, or wont play anyone using C'Tan? Break their legs?).

So yes, by all means if you want to go nuts with the house rules and use the most recent wording, just make sure your opponent is aware and take the good with the bad (e.g in the case of DH if you want better assault cannons, use crappier Hoods and Force Weapons) just dont look to use that line of thought outside your local club/kitchen.

DebonaireToast wrote:It can work to your advantage in some cases though...I just played a Witch Hunters list for the first time today and had to have their version of "Hit and Run" explained to me.

Oh yeah. At least Hit and Run is relatively rare and most people would recheck it anyway. What's worse is when the Dark Eldar player (yes I said player, singular) uses Grotesques with their own very Special Version of Feel no Pain (which is 9001% totally different to the USR Feel No Pain)

As every one else has said, however also read the FAQ on GW website. They did admit that All land raiders have a machine spirit even if it doesn't say so, and they use the new space marine style spirit as well

aleis wrote:As every one else has said, however also read the FAQ on GW website. They did admit that All land raiders have a machine spirit even if it doesn't say so, and they use the new space marine style spirit as well

uh....

Which FAQ was that?

All Land Raiders? (BT/DA/BA/GK/Chaos??)

EDIT: Ok - I think you're talking about the Demonhunters FAQ? Yeah, it looks like GKs get the same machine spirit as the new marines, but the OP was talking about Witch Hunters and according to the Witch hunters FAQ they keep the old machine spirit from their codex.

Gwar! wrote: (which is 9001% totally different to the USR Feel No Pain)

WHAT!?!?!?! ITS OVER 9000!?!?!?!?!

anyway, i dont see why they dont make equipment more or less universal.... cos a land rader is a land raider.... same model in essence.... so i dont see why they dont make it all over the board.... but have diffrent points values to represent the dificulties in aquiring the equipment respectfilly.... like in i think it was the 3rd ed, with BA you needed the BA dex and the SM dex.... i think you needed it with all SM "arc types" that wernt basic.

IRPurple wrote:anyway, i dont see why they dont make equipment more or less universal.... cos a land rader is a land raider.... same model in essence.... so i dont see why they dont make it all over the board.... but have diffrent points values to represent the dificulties in aquiring the equipment respectfilly.... like in i think it was the 3rd ed, with BA you needed the BA dex and the SM dex.... i think you needed it with all SM "arc types" that wernt basic.

To make equipment Universal, it would have to be in the Main Rule Book or a new Wargear Book, since GW's policy is that a Codex is self-sustaining. And thank goodness it is, I got really tired of hauling 2-3 Codices(+ WDs and FAQS/Errata) around just to play my Dark Angels.

Gwar! wrote:This is a change from their old "Newest published takes precedence" policy they had some years ago.

I don't beleive that there ever was a 'newest published takes precedence' policy in effect. You have always used the rules in your own codex, it's just that in the past these items were identical amongst the different codices to begin with.

Big thank yous to Debonaire and Alias. I would have never thought to look in the Demonhunters FAQ to solve this connundrum. And since I can easily make a Demonhunter Inquisitor an HQ for my Whitch Hunters this appears to solve the part of my problem regarding the being able to take advantage of the new Machine Spirit rules. Now if I could just figure out how to get 12 models in my Land Raider instead of ten (the Deamonhunters FAQ did not address that angle)...

yea you have to use witch hunters LR. i know it sucks and i know how you feel because the new SM codex didnt help my blood angels at all

The Angry Commissar wrote:yea you have to use witch hunters LR. i know it sucks and i know how you feel because the new SM codex didnt help my blood angels at all

On the upside, it didn't nerf a ton of things either.

Here is a follow up question.

The FAQ talks about “Grey Knight Land Raiders” so I take it that if a Demonhunter Inquisitor takes a Land Raider as a dedicated transport that they do not benefit from the new rules?

The FAQ:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180153_Daemonhunters_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

By Ultrastrict Raw, only the Grey Knights Land Raider or Grey Knights Land Raider Crusader have the Machine Spirit and Assault Vehicle rules described in the Errata, so a Dedicated transport Land Raider wont (as it has a seperate Profile/Entry)

However, I think this is Just a Case of Sloppy Writing.

And to feed off of GWAR's point the Demonhunters codex entry for Land Raider & Crusader LR says they specifically transport Grey Knights. What a pisser. I thought it would be fun to pile 15 Sisters into the Crusader and see how they do.

Well the sisters can always but a Crusader from Imperial Armour.

Its "permission only" but what isn't?