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Doesnt the current IG suit the name " Space Marines" better?

and the current SM should be named " Imperium Guard"

I know its way different then what we are accustomed to but.... maybe its just me.

Guardsmen = Conscripts
Marines = Conscripts but awesome.

Well, think of it in terms of the US:

National Guard - a semi serious army that sons of the rich enter in times of war to avoid conscription

Marines - kick ass rapid deployment army

tallmantim wrote:Well, think of it in terms of the US:

National Guard - a semi serious army that sons of the rich enter in times of war to avoid conscription

Isn't ignorance fun

You're thinking of the National Guard Air Force Reserve. Thats the weekend warrior. Regular National Guard actually do things.

Well, when you compare the numbers of models, there's not much of a difference.

It's kind of funny that an army of space marines isn't really that much more imposing then an IG army.

tallmantim wrote:Well, think of it in terms of the US:

National Guard - a semi serious army that sons of the rich enter in times of war to avoid conscription

Marines - kick ass rapid deployment army

This is incorrect, and somewhat insulting. Try to do some research before posting this sort of thing, to avoid spreading such nonsense in the future.



Technically, any infantry type soldier who serves aboard a space ship or is affiliated with a space navy would be considered a space marine, but not necessarily a Space Marine.

Yes , so atm Space Marine sound too generic and common o_o

Imperial Guard or Guardian of Imperium sounds way more elite and deserving for the current "SMs"

That's why I like to think of them as the Adeptus Astartes, the Adepts of the Emperor's Love. 'Space Marines' is too generic, whereas 'Adeptus Astartes' is both 40k and important-sounding due to the honorific 'Adeptus', while the 'Astartes' part both alludes to both the Astartes' genetic descent from the Emperor himself via the holy Primarchs, and their special role as imperial lictors.

Hordini wrote:

tallmantim wrote:Well, think of it in terms of the US:

National Guard - a semi serious army that sons of the rich enter in times of war to avoid conscription

Marines - kick ass rapid deployment army

This is incorrect, and somewhat insulting. Try to do some research before posting this sort of thing, to avoid spreading such nonsense in the future.

Dude - you really gotta get out more if you find that "somewhat insulting"!

You're thinking of the National Guard Air Force Reserve. Thats the weekend warrior. Regular National Guard actually do things.

Yep - that was the one GW went into!

In 40K terms, he'd be the son of the Sigilite spending his weekends tooling around Terra in a Valkyrie with his drinking buddies!



edit: or having a gig working in the military for The Departmento Munitorum!

When I first started 40k, I thought that the space marines were basically what imperial guard actually are, and that imperial guard were what the adeptus custodes are.

Marine is a term that relates to the sea and shouldn't be use to describe soldiers who fight from space craft anyway. Space Ranger or Space Commando would be better though obviously adeptus astartes is their true official name.
Fleets in space can still be navies though as navy to refers to ships and not specifically the sea.
Units with guard in their name tend to be defensive rather than offensive so the Raven Guard should probably not be called that either.

I've always considered the Imperium armies as such;
Imp Gaurd: Generic forces of Army, Marines and Navy.
Space Marines: Spec ops (Delta, SEAL, etc), used for quick objectives and shock attacks.
Witch & Daemons Hunters, the Inquisition, etc: Agencies like CIA, FBI, NSA...

tallmantim wrote:

Hordini wrote:

tallmantim wrote:Well, think of it in terms of the US:

National Guard - a semi serious army that sons of the rich enter in times of war to avoid conscription

Marines - kick ass rapid deployment army

This is incorrect, and somewhat insulting. Try to do some research before posting this sort of thing, to avoid spreading such nonsense in the future.

Dude - you really gotta get out more if you find that "somewhat insulting"!

I'm not even in the Guard anymore (en route to becoming a Marine Corps officer, actually) and I find it insulting. Ignorance is bad enough. Ignorance combined with a belittling attitude...grates peoples nerves. But then again I'm a pretty laid back guy. Most of the Guard combat vets I served with, who lost friends that certainly weren't of the "rich kid dodging the war" variety, would be more inclined to trade blows rather than words at such comments.

cadbren wrote:Marine is a term that relates to the sea and shouldn't be use to describe soldiers who fight from space craft anyway. Space Ranger or Space Commando would be better though obviously adeptus astartes is their true official name.
Fleets in space can still be navies though as navy to refers to ships and not specifically the sea.
Units with guard in their name tend to be defensive rather than offensive so the Raven Guard should probably not be called that either.

If you are going to split hairs about Marines only being sea and not space-borne, you should do the same for the actual spacecraft, which have far more in common with aircraft than oceanic vessels. It shouldn't be the Navy made of fleets of ships, but the Imperial Aerospace Force made of squadrons of ..... spaceplanes? something. The Adeptus Astartes would have more in common with the Soviet mechanized airborne (SU/Russia's rapid reaction force, and their own branch of service), so instead of Space Marines they'd be Space Desantniki (those who land, according to wiki) or something like that.

Well, the IG more often than not are defending stuff; Armageddon, PDF of the planets, Cadia, etc. Just because they are not on their home planet doesn't mean they are defending something. When they aren't defending anything they are retaking what they couldn't defend before.

The space marines just fly into battle like crusaders and holy butt secksers and kill the bad guys. Space Marines also have ships of their own while the Imperial Navy and the Imperial Guard are separate.

Noble713 wrote:

tallmantim wrote:

Hordini wrote:

tallmantim wrote:Well, think of it in terms of the US:

National Guard - a semi serious army that sons of the rich enter in times of war to avoid conscription

Marines - kick ass rapid deployment army

This is incorrect, and somewhat insulting. Try to do some research before posting this sort of thing, to avoid spreading such nonsense in the future.

Dude - you really gotta get out more if you find that "somewhat insulting"!

I'm not even in the Guard anymore (en route to becoming a Marine Corps officer, actually) and I find it insulting. Ignorance is bad enough. Ignorance combined with a belittling attitude...grates peoples nerves. But then again I'm a pretty laid back guy. Most of the Guard combat vets I served with, who lost friends that certainly weren't of the "rich kid dodging the war" variety, would be more inclined to trade blows rather than words at such comments.

Not rich war-dodgers, under-educated meat heads. And that reflects my military experience.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

I read somewhere....I think it was a GW webpage, it basically stated that the Adeptus Astartes can not be likened ( in fluff terms anyway ) to modern day Special Forces.....I mean, with respect, the Special Forces are human in mind, body and soul.....Astartes are not!

Stormtroopers are more a SF equivalent.

Well to be fair, they're trying to liken Space Marines to something of the modern world, but Space Marines are genetically enhanced supersoldiers that can rip people limb from limb with contemptible ease WITHOUT their armor. It's hard to draw direct analogies to that

Noble713 wrote:


If you are going to split hairs about Marines only being sea and not space-borne, you should do the same for the actual spacecraft, which have far more in common with aircraft than oceanic vessels. It shouldn't be the Navy made of fleets of ships, but the Imperial Aerospace Force made of squadrons of ..... spaceplanes? something. The Adeptus Astartes would have more in common with the Soviet mechanized airborne (SU/Russia's rapid reaction force, and their own branch of service), so instead of Space Marines they'd be Space Desantniki (those who land, according to wiki) or something like that.

Or whatever the english equivalent of Desantniki is, not desenters certainly.

A navy is made up of ships, from the latin navis for ship. You can argue whether a ship has to be sea going or not, but navy is perfectly usable if ships is okay to use and the term spaceship would suggest it is. A ship afterall is merely a vessel that ships things. At the moment that is restricted to across bodies of water but in the future that will be across areas of space. The spaceships of the Imperium do not appear to be atmospheric capable so in that they have a similarity with sea ships in that they can't fly. Spaceships if anything have more in common with submarines though obviously not being designed for use as such.
Space is a completely different medium to air or sea and military forces operating in it would use a combination of skills developed by traditional navies and air forces. It will be interesting to know what direction space forces will one day take in our reality though I suspect it will be a new branch, even if the airforce are more involved at the moment, though you'd know more about that than me.

kinda fail to see why the SM would be better called the guard. They are not defenders typically in the way the imp guard tends to be which argues why they have their name. Just bc they get on and off ships to get to fights does not make them a marine.

Delephont wrote:I read somewhere....I think it was a GW webpage, it basically stated that the Adeptus Astartes can not be likened ( in fluff terms anyway ) to modern day Special Forces.....I mean, with respect, the Special Forces are human in mind, body and soul.....Astartes are not!

Stormtroopers are more a SF equivalent.

And that's why stormtroopers are called stormtroopers and Cadian Shocktroops are called shocktroops. Both have historical references to WW2 German elites and Russian military.

Stormtroopers were the German WWI units that stormed enemy trenches. I'm not talking about the massed infantry attacks but specialists with flamethrowers, bombs etc.

I'm talking about the SA, they were more like stormtroopers. SA=Sturmabteilung or in english "storm battalion".

Also the russians had the "shock army" who were more veteren soldiers.

tallmantim wrote:

Hordini wrote:

tallmantim wrote:Well, think of it in terms of the US:

National Guard - a semi serious army that sons of the rich enter in times of war to avoid conscription

Marines - kick ass rapid deployment army

This is incorrect, and somewhat insulting. Try to do some research before posting this sort of thing, to avoid spreading such nonsense in the future.

Dude - you really gotta get out more if you find that "somewhat insulting"!

Ignorant, and a prick! Wow!

I'm talking about the SA, they were more like stormtroopers. SA=Sturmabteilung or in english "storm battalion".

The SA was a para military organisation of street fighters used by the NSDAP as a security & terror force to fight against their political enemies, but they were no real soldiers. If you would have sent a hundred SA men against even a squad of trained soldiers, they would have lost terrible. I think the Waffen-SS infantry formations are a better example for stormtroopers. But Cadbren is right the real stormtroopers were German WWI units, some elite infantry squads made of trench warfare vets who had better ideas then running directly at the enemy trench & die like lemmings.