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Do these armies need Oblits to work, or can you get by with just Marines? I did a ringer game the other day for some friends, playing as Chaos lash and I had fun, and am looking at some themed armies, but Oblits aren't in the mix...

What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

The things that will pull you through in a lash list isn't lash itself it's the obliterators. Oblits are what win the games, Lash makes those games easier to win. Delaying charges, grouping for templates, setting up charges.

I'd say you need oblits.

Oblits are the best unit in that god awful codex. To go with out them is like running a IG army with no heavy weapons

Clthomps wrote:Oblits are the best unit in that god awful codex. To go with out them is like running a IG army with no heavy weapons

This.

Our other shooty units like Havocs are generally just inferior-vanillas.

Normal Space Marines have those voluntary-run-away and automatically-regroup type special abilities. Chaos marines have none of that to try being "tactical"

Oblits weapon flexibility = awesome.
Ability to deep strike = awesome.
2+ armor save = awesome.
Move-and-shoot = awesome.

The chaos codex is filled with lots of "meh" units and options, and then a small bit of strong things. Oblits are definitely one of those strong things.

Just my 2 cents,

Every single chaos list I build, regardless of theme, fluff, and intent, has at least 1 daemon prince with wings and 3 obliterators. (Usually 2 squads of 2.)

Oblits are a must have.

The list will probably be more lethal with Oblits, but that doesn't mean that you have to take them. Defilers, vindicators and land raiders are all fairly decent heavy support choices, just not as uber as the oblits.

I don't buy a lot of the whining surrounding the chaos dex- it's has definately lost a lot of flavour, but there are a lot of strong builds in there that don't rely on lash and oblits (it's just that lash and oblits is stronger).

For the cost of a land raider you get 3 obliterators. That is 3 las / twin linked melta / multi melta / plasma cannon / all else shots per turn.

Oblits aren't mandatory, but point for point they are awesome. I like 2 X 2 oblits and a vindicator.
Personal preference, but all of the oblits power with an additional S10 big template =

I prefer defilers. Gun, close combat ability, more survivable vs a lascannon.

Chaos Lash Spam works great with Defilers and/or Vindicators (= Large Blast > Blast), where so far I prefer Vindicators, as Defilers seems to die too easy to Loota spam. Not that Vindicators last much longer, but a little better armor + easier to get cover = a preferred choice. In a purely competitve list, I feel Oblits are mandatory, I run 6 Oblits (2 units of 3) and 1 Vindicator.. and yes this is with the annoying dual lash. Cost, range, deep strike, survivability, and versatility.. they have it all. Oblits work as both anti-tank, anti-MC, and anti-terminator units (TH+SS give trouble still, but thats where the oblit spam helps). They are so good where even in alternate list when I want to run Land Raiders (w/ DP), I take a a few Termies and take the LR as a Dedicated Transport, just so I can still spam Oblits.

If you are talking abuot FUN and Friendly lists.. then all this goes out the door and be creative with other options.

Quick note: My I also run the Vindicator w/ Daemonic Possesion, which gives the same sort of surivability most are looking for from a Defiler. No close combat, but thats what my 2 Daemon Princes are for

Lash spam can work just fine with Vindicators/Defilers, but it is defnitely not as good as with Oblits. When you take things like Vindicators and Defilers you're losing utility, lots of utility. With Oblits in the list you don't have to rely on Lash to win games, which is extremely important. If the opposing army can knock down your lash princes quickly, you still have to have a way to win the game (Oblits).

I play 6 Oblits in my lash list, and I don't think I would consider running less than that. They're simply THAT good, especially in comparison with the rest of the codex.

Along the same lines as Caffran9's thoughts, there is a lot of mechanized armies floating around now and Lash is useless against mechanized until you can force the unit out of their transport... guess whats good at doing that Obliterators!!! Even though I run 6 Oblits and 1 Vindi, I have often considered dropping the Vindi, trimming some points from other areas, and just adding 3 more Oblits, for a total of 9!!

Caffran9 wrote:They're simply THAT good, especially in comparison with the rest of the codex.

QFT!

Obliterators seem mandatory until your group catches on. Then they usually die in T1 or T2 to long range fire, deep strikers, outflankers, etc.

While they synergize well with the Lash of Submission, they're great Lascannon and Melta-bait, and they fold quickly to a semi-determined assault despite being W2 Terminators.

Basically what kills them well is what kills Daemon Princes, Plague Marines, and light vehicles well. After that, a unit or two can be handy, but hardly mandatory.