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HQ:
Space Marine Captain
Bike, Relic Blade

Command Squad w/ Bikes
- Vet. w/ Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer
- Vet. w/ Storm Shield, Power Fist
- Veteran
- Company Champion (Power Weapon, Combat Shield)
- Apothecary

Troops:
6x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike (Hvy Bolter)
w/ 2x Flamers, Powerweapon

6x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike (Hvy Bolter)
w/ 2x Flamers, Powerweapon

6x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike (Multimelta)
w/ 2x Meltas, Powerfist

6x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike (Multimelta)
w/ 2x Meltas, Powerfist

Fast Attack:
Land Speeder
Heavy Flamer, Multimelta

Land Speeder
Heavy Flamer, Multimelta

[1500]

Looking to be a fun, competative list with lost of flexibility (all-comers) and replayability.

C&C?

Anything?

Drop the fourth bike squad. Max the other three. You can always combat squad if you need to then, your also suring up those expensive bike squads & being the most point-effecient. Maybe this is what you intended but you need a full 8-man bike squad plus an extra attack bike to be able to combat squad.

Drop the first or second, anti-infantry, bike sqauds. The melta squads still have semi-decent troop killing potentail with the TL-rentless bolters.

So drop the 1st or 2nd squad & get three more bikers to max out your remaining 3 troop bike sqauds.

Then with your last 155pts and fast attack slot, get;

5man Scout bike squad
+3x Astartes grenade launchers (with one going on the Sgt)
+cluster mines = 160pts.

Requires you to find another 5pts but adds in a nice degree of flexibility there & more than makes up for the loss of the anti-infantry marine bike sqaud (with those cluster mines & the frag or krak type grenade launchers!)

I don't have codex in front of me, but.....

You don't like Khan? Pont difference vs. your Capt.

I don't like that command squad loadout. LC and SS, no champion.

I could do a LC over the Hammer, but lets face it, the TH/SS on a Bike would look awesome and may do well, too. The Champion is a Power Weapon with a higher WS and a 6+ invuln for the same price as a single Power Weapon, so it seemed a simple enough idea. Khan costs ~40 more points, which makes a difference.

I will work up a "combat squad" list later on. That actually seems a LOT better. I do not, however, want any Scouts. I will tinker and post a new list. Combat Squads seem a good way to get a lot, pay less, and grab more objectives if need be too.

HQ:
Space Marine Captain
Bike, Relic Blade

Command Squad w/ Bikes
- Company Champion (Power Weapon, Combat Shield)
- Power Fist
- Lightning Claw, Storm Shield
- Lightning Claw, Company Standard
- Apothecary
[or -1 Claw off Standard Bearer, +1 Storm Shield on Power Fist Vet]

Troops:
8x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike
Power Fist, 2x Meltas, 1x Multimelta

8x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike
Power Fist, 2x Meltas, 1x Multimelta

8x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike
Power Fist, 2x Meltas, 1x Multimelta

Fast Attack:
2x Attack Bikes w/ Multimeltas

[1500]

Revised. Figured the Flamers were a bit useless, since I have tons of firepower on the go. Also, I can now Combat Squad it up! Using the Meltaguns in one group and the MM in another, giving me a lot of anti-tank firepower. I could make one unit 2x Flamer, 1x Hvy. Bolter to free up points for more stuff in the Command Squad, but that I can figure out in testing.

Does that look better? Competative?

Looks better, more optimised but.. youve gone too melta heavy. Id suggest retaining some heavy-bolter + flamer goodness.

Tl-boltguns aside, against a big horde, your special & heavy weapons will ping off at maximum 3 models.. where-as 2 flamers & a heavy bolter could happily kill upwards of 10. On a good day.

Id even go as far as suggesting a change of those multi-melta attack bikes to heavy bolter ones, along with a change of one of the troop-choices to a h.bolter + flamer varient. I say this because that leaves you with two sqauds that can scoot up to a tank from 24" away and shoot it with a decent chance of killing it & then go onto assaulting it with massed str 4 hits & a few str 8 attacks. The command squad can charge vehicles with a little more omphf.

Also.. heavy bolter attack bikes, I think, will be concidered alot less of a threat than MM attacks bikes - by most people whom field any kind of armor yet they are quite a threat to anything walking bar actual walkers! Even then, AV10 walker watch out vs massed str 5 shots!

What looks better?

A champion with power weapon and 5+ combat shield OR a veteran with reroll to wound power weapon (claw) and 3+ storm shield, just saying

I'm with Razorous..... Too much melta. Keep the attack bike multi meltas, make squad bikes heavy bolters, make 2 squads of bikes anti troop (flamers). If you can't kill a tank, by that I mean a LR, with x2 meltaguns and x2 attack bikes with MM, well it's not meant to be.

The flamer kills all. You need a big punch vs. horde armies.

If standard gives reroll failed morale and pinning tests, drop it. You have 10 LD from Capt., correct?

Khan would be awesome in this army, if you like characters. He would make that command squad brutal.

Hm. Tinkered a bit.

Fist List:

HQ:
Space Marine Captain
Bike, Relic Blade

Command Squad w/ Bikes
- Company Champion (Power Sword, Combat Shield)
- Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
- Lightning Claw, Storm Shield
- Lightning Claw
- Apothecary

Troops:
8x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike
Power Fist, 2x Meltas, 1x Multimelta

8x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike
Power Fist, 2x Meltas, 1x Multimelta

8x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike
Power Sword, Meltabombs, 2x Flamers, 1x Heavy Bolter

Fast Attack:
3x Attack Bikes w/ Heavy Bolters

[1500]

Second List:

HQ:
Space Marine Captain
Bike, Relic Blade

Command Squad w/ Bikes
- Company Champion (Power Sword, Combat Shield)
- Power Fist, Storm Shield
- Lightning Claw, Storm Shield
- Power Fist
- Apothecary

Troops:
8x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike
Power Fist, 2x Meltas, 1x Multimelta

8x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike
Power Sword, 2x Flamers, 1x Heavy Bolter

8x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike
Power Sword, 2x Flamers, 1x Heavy Bolter

Fast Attack:
3x Attack Bikes w/ Multimelta

[1500]

I prefer list 1...those 3 Attack Bikes will give you great anti-horde but you can still kill most any armor your opponent has.

Hmm. Agreed. I will run that and see what happens.

Agreeded and seconded..ed. 1st list

While youve got more nice high-str weapons in the second command squad.. those onslaught of I4 re-roll to-wound power weapons & other power weapons & relic blades will whittle through most things, perhaps even putting wounds on those hidden powerfists in an enemy sqaud.

Keeping the melta (2/3) with your troop-bike squads is good as they can simply stand up to more punishment and still be effective where-as youve only got 3-instant killable wound with those multi-melta attack bikes & somtimes three could be over-kill whilst 3 heavy bolters will always do a good amount of killing rarely with overkill.

I think khan is well worth the extra 40 pts, especially if you swap in LCs for one of those fists (LC+SS is a great combo for those guys, bury one fist in there tho).

If you go khan, you get access to outlfank for the bike squads. In that case, I have had fantastic luck kitting my regular bike squads out as:

full size, fist on the sarge, 1 X Flamer, 1 X Melta-gun, 1 X MM attack bike.

Fist is a no-brainer, flamer ia great against nearly every troop in the game, especially since you usually get optimal angle and placement due to speed, and you have double melta to guarantee the shot.

I like these types of squads because I can't always guarantee that I will get the squad I want on a given table edge, so I kit them to be somewhat flexible. I am not usually so keen on flexible units, but in this case, they havent really let me down yet.

I won't chance Khan and I prefer the Captain's kit. Relic Blade is just solid.

I hope to, by May, have a blog up on this army's progress both on the battlefield and on the workbench (the latter first, obviously).

One nice part is, if I get a wild hair, I can run Khan. I am making my own Chapter, so anything is possible. However, I want a solid all-comers list such as the above list (the first one). I think that can handle my metagame and still be fun to play.

Thanks for the help guys. Next, I will proxy test it and get a feel for it while I accumulate the needed resources to put it together.

I don't think you should trick out your sergeants in the bike squads much.

Bike armies have speed as their advantage. You control the flow of the battle. Getting bogged in CC removes this advantage.

SM Bikes are less effective in CC than CC specific troops. If you get caught in CC with these troops, then a PF is not going to help you. The squad will be lost. Remember, 8 bikes + 1 attack bike = 11 attacks total, with 19 on the charge. 9 Orks charging have 36 attacks.

SM Bikes are more effective in CC than non-CC armies (Tau, IG) Against these armies, a PF will not make any real difference.

SM Bikes are slightly more effective that SM tac troops. However, if your opponent has a PF in a tac squad, he will be chewing up bikes with instant death, and bikes cost to much to play that game. I would rather stay back from that squad and pump it full of lead.

In summary, a PF or PS in a bike squad has very limited use in CC. Your best best is using them vs. vehicles, but for 25 points I would rather just use a attack bike's multi-melta or meltabombs or melta-guns in the squad.

I tend to disagree. Ignoring armor saves and going off Str8 for Fists is useful. Against tanks, MCs, and hard enemies, it is helpful. I know I will wind up using shooting as my core attack, but the chance of it helping are too great to ignore.

That is something I will see in testing, though, if it is worth having. You may be right.

On Khan...

If you are doing you own chapter you can make your own guy and use rules for Khan.

Outflank for army, hit and run, furious charge, plus Khan's rules are a steal at 40 pts over that captain.

Outflank is unreliable. Hit&Run and Furious Charge on the Command Squad is nice, but I could barely squeeze in what I have here. Maybe if I go up to 1750 or 2000.

Outflank is an option. You can deploy bikes

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:Outflank for army, hit and run, furious charge, plus Khan's rules are a steal at 40 pts over that captain.

The real problem I see with Khan is that he really doesn't do all that much for the extra points. Outflank is bad; if you come in on the wrong edge, even with 24" turbo-boost, it's gonna take you a couple turns to be useful again. So 1/3 of your army does nothing for 2 turns after they finally roll high enough to come in?

As you mentioned, Outflank is an option, and you don't have to do it. But if you are choosing not to Outflank, then you are giving up one of the things that you paid extra points for.

Next is Furious Charge and Hit and Run for the one squad he is with. Yes, these will make the command squad hit even harder, but they already hit plenty hard and are tough as nails with Storm Shields, FnP, and T5. Giving them the extra rules that Khan brings will make them a little better, but not that much better. On the flip side, in order to get all of these things, the rest of your army has to give up combat tactics. That means if your 300 point bike squad gets assaulted by a 100 point dreadnaught, you are stuck in combat until he kills everyone or your one powerfist gets lucky and kills him. Or if the super killy unit shoots you and kills a couple, then assaults, you just have to take it (or hope you roll bad).

On the flip side, if you don't take Khan, then you give up some special rules for the Command Squad. As noted above though, they hit plenty hard enough without those rules that it's really not a big deal. AND your regular squads can now choose to auto-fail any morale check they have to take (and then auto-rally afterwards, go go gadget Space Marines). So if you get charged by the above dreadnaught, you lose a couple guys and then you have a 50% chance to get away and shoot him with your meltaguns. If that killy unit shoots you and kills a couple, you can auto-fail the Morale check for that and run 3d6" away from them, most likely moving out of assault range. If they realize you can do that and instead choose not to shoot, then you have just saved yourself however many wounds would have been caused.

All in all, taking Khan gets you some minor benefits for one squad at the cost of gimping the options that the rest of your army has. Doesn't seem like that great of a deal to me.

Wow, for a nonmarine player like me... that's a really great explanation

And, from someone who hadn't played since 3rd edition (also me) until recently, I can't believe that SM bikes are actually Good now . Lol! They used to be fun to take and a complete waste of points... looks like a fun list

Is that most recent list going to be competative?

Had a rough match-up against Dark Eldar today. Managed to not break off combat once out of the ~10 chances I had. Still, Combat Tactics seems like it is going to work well in the future. The army worked like I figured it would and it was a blast, so my next step is to start building it.

This army makes me think


KHAAAAAAANN!

I am not sure he is worth it.

I have been wanting to try a list like this for a few months now. It sounds like a blast.

To be totally honest, it was! I loved playing it. Scooting around the board and making a mess of things. Good fun. I proxied it up to test it out and it lived up to my expectations.

Another nice thing is, if you build it right (custom chapter; magnetized), you can play SM Bikers, White Scars, or Ravenwing. That is nice to keep boredom to a minimum.

I've got a similar list that I just recently finished building and have been playing a lot recently. The big problem I have had is that I don't have any good long-distance shots, stuff to handle taking out dangerous units in transports or things like dreadnaughts. While I have a ton of melta fire, I have to get my bikes way too close to the enemy in order to make that work, and I just end up getting charged by whatever is inside of the transport. I lost a game to a deathwing army with 3x Land Raiders and 3x Lightning Claw terminator squads inside, because I would either ignore the LR, and he would run up, jump out, and charge. Or I would move up and pop the LR, and then he would charge.

I also lost to a 6x trukk ork army because even though blowing up the trukks is easy, 12 choppa boyz go through a bike squad pretty quickly, especially with a Nob w/Power Klaw.

I'm thinking about making room for a few Land Speeders with MM, so that I can run them up in front of the army and blow up annoying things without having to worry too much about losing big chunks of the army.

I learned a few hard lessons in testing. Knowing how to Combat Squad is essential. Putting together a proper anti-tank group that you are willing to sacrifice is worth it, sometimes. In 1500pt games, I don't often see triple Land Raiders or 6 Trukks (more probable of the two), but if I do, I can speed up a small portion of my army to put down Melta fire and then charge the units inside. That ties them down and, if I win, good. If not, I can combat tactics if my squad isn't destroyed and spend my next turn blowing them away with unsavable wounds (in the case of the Orks) or just concentrated fire that even Termies will eventually not save against.

Another important asset is speed. We can get away from people very quickly. Most infantry cannot exceed 6" + d6" outside of a transport, but we can easily go 12"-24", which is huge. Against close-combat armies, just stay away from them and pour fire into them. Whittle them down then go in with Meltaguns and a solid Command Squad and do your best to wipe them out.

I am going to try out some Landspeeders myself, because I agree that they would possibly help strengthen the army. My Ravenwing variant runs four, each with Heavy Flamers/Multimeltas. That helps compensate for lower bike numbers in that army, so it may work for a Codex SM list as well.

Anyhow, I still love the army. I think it is a blast to play!

HQ:
Ko'sarro Khan w/ Moondrakkan

Command Squad w/ Bikes
- Company Champion (Power Sword, Combat Shield)
- Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
- Lightning Claw, Storm Shield
- Lightning Claw
- Apothecary

Troops:
8x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike
Power Fist, 2x Meltas, 1x Multimelta

8x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike
Power Fist, 2x Meltas, 1x Multimelta

8x Bikes, 1x Attack Bike
Power Sword, Meltabombs, 2x Flamers, 1x Heavy Bolter

Fast Attack:
2x Attack Bikes w/ Heavy Bolters

[1500]

Just to have the option, here is my list with Khan added in. That should keep people on their toes.