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well for myself, i would have to say Lizardmen, they are bad ass, plain and simple and to counter them toss in the Skaven, not only would the lizardmen be drawn to fight chaos(as far as i know it seems they are born to do such) but the loath the Skaven so by adding these two races you balance things out, some tanks( Warrior,Old Blood, for the skaven Warlord and Clan Warriors) magic classes(Skink Priests and for the Skaven Plague Priests, or Grey Seers maybe both) long range units(Skink Archers and WarpLock snipers) for stealth and dagger units (Chameleon Skinks and Gutter Runners) then your pet classes (Skink Beast Tamer and Skaven Herder, the Skink gets either a Salamander or Razordon and for the Skaven Gaint Rat or a Rat Orge i know it sounds extreme for both but have it go so that if the master dies the creatures attacks both friend and foe alike) well those are my thoughts please leave your own races down and etc can't wait to hear what people got to say

Hmm, I'll have to disagree about your choice of Skaven Tank. I would use Stormvermin instead. As for pet classes, Neither really makes a good pet, too big. Skaven could get away with Giant Rat breeder, but as for Lizardmen I'm not sure.

I would add Ogre Kingdoms. Wait, aren't Ogres evil you say? well, we could make them a mercenary race, after creating your character you would choose which side to join, Order or Destruction.

Classes could be: Tank: Irongut, DPS: Maneater (with two hand weapons, mind you) Ranged: Gnoblar Trapper Pet Class: Hunter with Sabretusk.

See, I always thought they should have had a "Neutral"ish faction.
It could be:
Vampire Counts
Wood Elves
and
Ogre Kingdoms

Why those 3 you ask?
They're all out for themselves. You can't get them to band all together to defeat a common foe, except the absolute most dire of circumstances.

Add in the fact that it would be another way to soup up interest, and bam. You've got a bit of an interesting way to deal.

Then there's also something else that could be done with that though.

Neutral faction players can cooperate with either Destruction or Order, depending on their race. Wood Elves with Order, Vampires with Destruction, Ogres with either.
And what does that accomplish?
People getting more interested because of their favorite armies, and working with their friends dependent on their friends' faction.

You don't have to have a pet class. As long as you meet the 4 basic job types in WAR you are ok.

Tank
Melee DPS
Ranged DPS
Healer

No need to shoehorn in a pet class to all races.

That's true, Ahtman. But it's sometimes fun to have a pet.

The only problem with wood elves is that it would be high elves, but with a different color. Sure, each class will be different but in the end of the day they'll be elves with a nature-y touch.

well how about the Salamanders we all run into at some point in time in the game not the large ones from table top, from what i have read the skinks are the animal handlers and toss the orge out for a giant rat, so both get pets but noting more powerful that the Squig as for the whole grey side, i guess it could work, but i think sticking to two sides is about right for now, it gives both sides races with classes to counter each other, and it ends out about even but through in a third variable and things start to go out of loop a little bit, if its done right i wouldn't mind it(would never play the said races) but i wouldn't feel cheated in the least i just think it would be cool to be a Saurus Warrior cracking heads with an Aztec style weapon, just something a little more animal like i guess, anything to help add character to how you present yourself in the game world*shrugs* but thats just my take

Don't forget that you'll need a healer class of some sort. It would be interesting to see what new class mechanics they come up with to distinguish what the Lizards and Skaven can do.

Kanluwen wrote:They're all out for themselves.

Wood Elves have Beastmen as their de facto opposite(so says the WE book) and thus are automatically on the Order side.

Platuan4th wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:They're all out for themselves.

Wood Elves have Beastmen as their de facto opposite(so says the WE book) and thus are automatically on the Order side.

That would mean including Beastmen

But Wood Elves also have Dwarves, Bretonnia, and pretty much anyone who comes into Athel Loren without their permission as their enemies.

If Ogre Kingdoms were included in the game, then I would actually play it.

Though they don't see themselves as evil (Then again, what evil sees itself as evil?), and are simply ignorant, subservient, and very hungry, they would probably make a good fit for the Destruction side of the spectrum.

As for a counterpart? Adding in Bretonians would probably make a lot of people happy, but the best fit opposite of Ogres would have to be Cathayans. It's too bad that they're not actually a part of the tabletop game, because a lot of people would cry foul. Adding an army with an Asian aesthetic would broaden it's audience quite a bit (especially considering that Warhammer is all but devoid of anything asian-inspired).

As for anything that actually matches on the good/evil front, there's really nothing left. All of the races in Warhammer are morally ambiguous to begin with, and would fight each other (and themselves, in some cases) at the first opportunity. Having an 'Alliance' doesn't make sense for anything outside of a balance for PVP (Even though it's extremely unbalanced anyway).

Kanluwen wrote:But Wood Elves also have Dwarves, Bretonnia, and pretty much anyone who comes into Athel Loren without their permission as their enemies.

That's true of all the races, though.

Platuan4th wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:But Wood Elves also have Dwarves, Bretonnia, and pretty much anyone who comes into Athel Loren without their permission as their enemies.

That's true of all the races, though.

On the tabletop, yes.

But that's for flimsy excuses for massive battles of Dwarves and Empire, etc.

If you go and actually dig through the background?
They're far more closely linked to each other as allies.

That's why I said make a third faction. Mythic has done it before, and it worked quite nicely too.
Or heck, if need be?

It would not be hard at all to add Wood Elves to Order, Vampire Counts to Destruction, and Ogre Kingdoms as their own faction; who can ally with either as they see fit.

Putting those 3 specific factions in, would also bring a huge draw of crowds, imo.

Kanluwen wrote:It would not be hard at all to add Wood Elves to Order, Vampire Counts to Destruction, and Ogre Kingdoms as their own faction; who can ally with either as they see fit.

I still think if they add Wood Elves and Vampire Counts the mix should be:

Wood Elves vs Beastmen

Classic match up and fluffy according to both their books. Plus, Wood Elves are listed as Allies for the High Elves on the Matrix of Allies for Legendary battles.

Vampire Counts vs Bretonnian

Yes, Von Carsteins will probably be the biggest influence if they become a playable race, but, as Empire is already out, there is justification here thanks to the Blood Dragons and Blood Keep being based in Bretonnia. Plus, having the Red Count as a high level quest would be amazing.

For ogres to be an independat faction, you have to account for individuals joining a side, coming back to Ogre territory and informing other ogres of what that side is doing. In other words they can act as spies. An ogre in a guild for order that wants to go do a raid somewhere in destruction territory can message his buddies in a destruction guild about their plans. If they don't want that they'd have to figure out how to cut-off ogre players from home to prevent espionage.

Skaven counterbalanced by Lizards.

Second choice, Beastmen countered by wood elves.

I got my Destruction server merged and of course they merged it with the server my Order characters were on. So I now have no order characters. Huzzah.

I am partial to the Skaven/Lizardmen idea. It opens up a new continent and gives order some beastie characters to play with.

Temple Guard(Tank) Scar veteran(meleedps) Skink Priest of Sotek(hybrid caster like shaman and Archmage)...perhaps the fourth slot would be either Chameleon skink as a shadow warrior type or as Skink Beast Handler with Salamanders, Razordons, and a couple of new beasties?

If they did do Lizardmen, I could see them doing Tomb Kings as a kind of Southlands bonanza.

But anyways, I digress. The most likely characters we'd see for a Lizardmen faction:

Saurus Oldblood
Skink Chieftain
Skink Priest
Kroxigor

They've said they want just one pet class per faction, and White Lions/Squig Herders are apparently hard enough to balance.

Railguns, what I had in mind with Ogres was something like this. After character creation the player would be given a choice between Order or Destruction. The Ogres wouldn't have their own starting place, rather, they would have their own place on each side. But of course, a neutral Ogre town something akin to Booty Bay in WOW would be nice.

Probably a neutral starter town that goes to level 10 and then once players hit 11 they have to leave on their rite of passage and pick a side, starting in the Tier 2 ork area for Destruction or tier 2 Empire area for order.

I would probably buy and play the game if I could be a Lizardman. It would be fun to "evolve" into a Slann and just blow everything up you see.

Skaven are a good counter to them.

Railguns wrote:Probably a neutral starter town that goes to level 10 and then once players hit 11 they have to leave on their rite of passage and pick a side, starting in the Tier 2 ork area for Destruction or tier 2 Empire area for order.

How would you gain Renown Rank? It would be kinda crappy to get to level 11 to be RR 0.

The same way everyone else does?

By picking a faction to work with?

what people forget is that Mythic did pretty amazing with Dark Age of Camelot and the three faction system there.
Which is why I suggested having a third 'out for themselves' faction. Admittedly, it was all races you'd never see banding together, but it would also be something that would allow you to work with different factions if you so chose. Which is something Mythic wanted for DAOC.