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The name says it all, I'm posting this in thoughts of what I should make for my own 1000 point army of Gue'vesa, so here I am surveying. I know in Apocalypse I could use anything I wanted, but anything less than 3000 points I need some thoughts for.

This is kinda the wrong forum for it mate....

You want to use IG with Tau in normal games? I guess I'd let you use as much IG as you'll let me mix my Tyranids and my CSM.

Well is there any place in the lore where Chaos work with Tyranids? If so I'd have no problem with it.

Chaos Sorcerers take over the Hive mind
Tyranids infect all the Chaos Marines with Genestealer babies.

You can make the fluff fit anything.

However, human auxiliaries are not used enough to warrant their inclusion in normal sized 40k games. Stick to mixing IG and Yau in Apoc

I'd have to disagree, Tau have taken over several Imperial worlds just by talking to them, thus leaving behind legions of imperial troops, and not to mention when the Imperium left several planets on the eastern fringe to die in the grips of the Tyranids, where the Tau Ran in, told them to join them, and that was that.

Disagree all you want, They aint in the tau codex, so outside of Apoc, you shouldnt try to use them.

In Apoc, you can just go mix your IG with Tau, nice and simple.

if you really are desperate for over costed human Aux troops, whine to GW for a new Tau Codex (like they deserve ANOTHER update) -looks at DE, GK and SOB and grumbles-

Tyranids aren't in the Chaos Codex either, but you're more susceptible to allow them in the Chaos army, why not have human Auxiliaries in the Tau? I mean Games-Workshop has made up rules for Gue'vesa already, I wanted to see how much players would allow me to have so far. Majority so far says I could perhaps go as far as Leman Russes out of Apoc.

He was being sarcastic about the Chaas/Nids thing.

Stick to your own dex...it is the only legal way.

I'm thinking out of Tournament rules nor chapter approved. I pulled this up out of Wikipedia.

Human (Gue'vesa)

Gue'vesa ("Human Helper") is the name the Tau give to the humans who have joined their empire. After the Damocles Gulf Crusade, many Imperial Guardsmen were stranded in Tau-controlled regions of space after being abandoned by the Imperium. O'Shovah helped them by giving these humans the option of joining the Tau Empire, an offer that most accepted.

In a Ciaphas Cain novel, there are a large number of people who can be considered Gue'vesa, as they support the Tau Empire over the Imperium, even though the world in question is still under the jurisdiction of the Imperium.

Special Rules

The descendants of the humans that joined the Tau Empire now maintain colonies on the edges of Tau space, and are often recruited as auxiliaries in the Tau army. The Gue'vesa are capable of producing copies of the Imperial lasgun to defend themselves, and in times of war may be armed with more advanced Tau weaponry such as pulse rifles, pulse carbines, and markerlights. These small units of humans are reviled and viewed as traitors by most members of the Imperium. As a result, in game terms, any Imperial units attacking Gue'vesa gain a bonus in close combat.

All nice and good fluff....and still illegal outside of Apoc.

I would never allow them to be used, until Tau get a new codex that re-allows human aux.

You could simply count them as kroot, but they'll probably do horrible (then again, what do you expect from guardsmen?)

Yeah, "counts as" kroot would be legal.

In fact, I have a buddy who is building up Catachans right now as counts as Kroot, and he is using Vampire counts dire wolves as their puppies...it should look good when he is done.

Avrik_Shasla wrote:I'm thinking out of Tournament rules nor chapter approved. I pulled this up out of Wikipedia

It Are Fact! I know because I edited the Wikipedia Article myself!

Cryonicleech wrote:You could simply count them as kroot, but they'll probably do horrible (then again, what do you expect from guardsmen?)

Counts As is a totally different kettle of fish. Counts as is fine, although a little strange (Did these guardsmen suddenly become uber naked ninjas?)

I tend to just use my gue'vesa as "count as" line firewarriors or kroot. the "real important" (read: tau) troopers hide safely in devilfish... gue'vesa acting as fire magnets, for the greater good!

I look at it this way for supporting my fact. Why wouldn't Tau be able to use many of the imperial guard weaponry? I mean all the kroot are from a couple small planets that were near extinct due to Ork rule. Humans on the other hand have lost many planets to the Tau simply by agreeing to join them, fine in all other conditions. I would never fight my point to use my Gue'vesa if someone didn't agree with them, but as it shows in many 40K novels, Humans do work for the Tau, sevreal occasions to be exact, weather it be willingly, or by mercenary. I suppose the only time I'd use my Gue'vesa is if the scenario allowed it.

Lets take a look at Talos for instance. Imperim finds out that the planet is working with the Tau for trading, Imperial Guard, and Space marine forces are dispatched to deal with the destruction of the planets military and their Governor. With this action in mind, the entire planet's military started working with the Tau, giving the thousands of troops and vehicles at the Tau's disposal.

As we have said before... if it aint in the codex you cannot do it. What part of that don't you get?

Also Imperial Tech is far, far worse than T'au tech. Tau would never use imperial tech under ANY circumstances.

If you wanna go "counts as" thats fine, but I wouldn't let you make a whole new unit type outside of Apoc.

Well, why wouldn't I be able to use these? I mean conversions are made everyday, in fact Games-workshop encourages people to make conversions and different models, why not allow this? I mean I'm no purist and I really enjoy making converions, Titans were not in the codex until Apocalypse and they were being used for years.

You are not reading what we said.

You are asking "Oh what points should I give these models I made, or will you let me use the Imperial Guard Rules for them" which we reply "No, keep this stuff in Apocalypse"

if you want to use Gue'vesta as "Counts as" fire Warriors or "Counts As" Kroot, then go right ahead, noone will have a problem with that.

Well it's more of an idea dealing with what I could use. Lets say this "Talos" scenario, Space marines are assulting an Imperial guard outpost with the Help of Tau, I would want to choose say

HQ
Two conscript squads
One Karskin
an Earthshaker
and a Leman Russ

And the Tau would have (Insert random Tau units).

What's the problem with that if it's in a scenario?

Its not legal?

Where, other than apocalypse, can you mix 2 different armies? (And dont be a smartarse by mentioning Daemonhunter/Witchhunters/Space Wolves)

You cannot.

Keep it for apocalypse.

(P.S. karskin don't exist any more)

Honestly, i just cant picture anything other than the usual Troop choice to be used as Gue'vesa.

Anything more, you might as well as field that army by itself.

Super heavies too? now thats just suspicious lol

Since the official lore states that the Tau have overun several Imperium colony's, as well as assisted in the rebelion of another Imperial world "Taros", I see no reason you could not field an entire Guard army under Tau colors. The problem you will always run into is codex purists, with little to no imagination or concept of what the official lore is trying to tell you. (whine) well its not in the codex so no you cant (stomp)(sucks thumb). The reality is of the six wargamming clubs I have belonged to including the two I am a current member of in my state, new units, are welcome as long as lore and I dare say common sense are followed. I ran into an incident several years back where I used Pikes in my Imperial Warhammer fantasy battle, everyone loved the idea and the models, all but one figity little man, who said its not in your codex so you cant use it. I tried explaining to him I had already called the Rulz Boyz and they said it was fine so long as I used the stats from the Dogs of War Codex. In the end the club officers called the Rulz Boyz again and lo and behold they upheld the use of the pikes in my army. The little figity felloe packed his lizardmen and left the shop. In the end its a game, its a great way to make friends and enjoy in a fantastic fantasy world. In short anyone who has a fit because its not in the codex, should maybe try to relax, read a few of the Warhammer books, and get a grip, after all its a game.

Hehe, I would never go ahead and filed a Baneblade, nor would I want a Leman Russ, I think an Earthshaker would be as far as I would go.

Gwar has stated his opinion, if I was fighting him even in a Taros campaign, I would not be able to field Imperial Guard.

Avrik_Shasla wrote:Hehe, I would never go ahead and filed a Baneblade, nor would I want a Leman Russ, I think an Earthshaker would be as far as I would go.

Gwar has stated his opinion, if I was fighting him even in a Taros campaign, I would not be able to field Imperial Guard.

Wow, way to put words in my mouth.

I said IN NORMAL GAMES!

if we were playing a "Taros" Campaign or whatever the hell you are on about, I would gladly allow for multiple detachments per side, or perhaps a doubles game or just a full blown Apoc game to keep things simple. That would be acceptable. To just go "Hurr I play T'au but now I want a Baneblade hurrrr!" is not.

As to the people calling me a whiner. Grow up. Seriously. Some people enjoy playing the game by the rules, not by making stuff up as they go along. You want to do that (Clarification: making Stuff up as you go along) go play Dark heresy/Inquisitor/Dungeons and Freaking Dragons

Oh and Gen.Von Riech, that's called "Counts As", which is acceptable. Showing up and saying "Hurrr I wanna use Some Elves in my Lizardman army hurrr" is not.

You said I could just keep it Apoc and nothing else

Its not legal?

Where, other than apocalypse, can you mix 2 different armies? (And dont be a smartarse by mentioning Daemonhunter/Witchhunters/Space Wolves)

You cannot.

Keep it for apocalypse.


PS: I think Riech just said it the best

Oh jesus... Did I say "Keep it for Apocalypse AND NOTHING ELSE EVER SO HELP YOU GOD I WILL GET CAVATORE TO COME AND BEAT YOU WITH A SPOON!!!!"?
No I said "Keep it ("It" meaning mixing two armies together) to Apoc".

You are well within your rights to do say a doubles game, 750 points per person say, where you take a 750 Guard army and a 750 T'au army. Thats fine and dandy. What isnt fine and dandy (as you seem to keep missing the point so I'll reiterate it again) is to just take random Guard Units in your T'au army.

What's Gue'vesa?

Sternguard_rock wrote:What's Gue'vesa?

Human Auxiliaries, taken from Human Worlds enslaved by the T'au. Covered in the fluff mostly, had a White Dwarf Article about it, but currently have no rules other than using them as "Counts as" Kroot or Fire Warriors.

Normal Game? Once again, normal being only what is in the codex, the funny thing is that on many occasions Games workshop stuffs the normal, and encourages you to have fun with the game, create new units and such. I suggest you have fun with it and I hope your local gamming club is as accepting of logical experimentation as all the ones I have belonged too. In the end if everyone has fun then it was worth the car ride over.