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I don't see why I wouldn't be able to, but then again at the same time I could split armies 750 Tau and 750 Imperial Guard, so you say I could field Imperial guard units.

Avrik_Shasla wrote:I don't see why I wouldn't be able to, but then again at the same time I could split armies 750 Tau and 750 Imperial Guard, so you say I could field Imperial guard units.

No, you can field 2 ARMIES of 750 Points each in a Doubles game. That's fine, because you prescribe to the FoC for each army (1HQ and 2 Troops etc). What you cant do is take all Tau Troops then just Spam the Basilisks like there's no tomorrow, which is what you are wanting to do from what I gather.

Although, I do start to feel your pain. T'au are the worst race (in rules, fluff and aesthetics) in 40k, so I can understand why you crave some actually useful units once and a while.

Oh! So then fielding Two armies perfectly legal, I already know that i'd give them their own HQ and what not, so with HQ down I'd sitll have about 550 points to play with. So you say I can field Imperial Guard .

Gwar! wrote:Oh jesus... Did I say "Keep it for Apocalypse AND NOTHING ELSE EVER SO HELP YOU GOD I WILL GET CAVATORE TO COME AND BEAT YOU WITH A SPOON!!!!"?
No I said "Keep it ("It" meaning mixing two armies together) to Apoc".

You are well within your rights to do say a doubles game, 750 points per person say, where you take a 750 Guard army and a 750 T'au army. Thats fine and dandy. What isnt fine and dandy (as you seem to keep missing the point so I'll reiterate it again) is to just take random Guard Units in your T'au army.

And he cannot use random units for what reason, he has already stated that it was not for a pure official game, I say as long as he keeps to the numbers from the guard codex, and Tau Codex he can have at it. Once again so long as his adversary has no objection then let him have some fun. I have already created an anti armor gun for my krieg, and a new type of tank niether of which are in the codex, yet I use them in battles all the time. Imagination, its a great thing.

Look at it this way - can you mix and match models from the CSM and deamons codexes? no, you can't, even though it might work fluff wise. (and never let some one do it, btw, I let someone have demonettts once in a CSM army and... it wasn't pretty.)

Ergo, barring a 'fun' game, you can't mix and match guard and tau.

That said, I would definitely allow it in a tau centric campaign, but in serious tournmanets? hell no.

Yeah that's what I'm saying Mil I'd NEVER use Imperial guard with my Tau in a Tourny.

Avrik_Shasla wrote:Oh! So then fielding Two armies perfectly legal, I already know that i'd give them their own HQ and what not, so with HQ down I'd sitll have about 550 points to play with. So you say I can field Imperial Guard .

yes you can field Imperial Guard... in an Imperial Guard Army.

If you and your opponent agree to a Doubles match then Bully for you.

In fact if you and your opponent agree to just gak on the rulebook, that's fine too.

But considering you posted in the "Rules Debate" forum (I still say wrong forum, this should be in Dakka Discussion but anyway) I assume you were asking from a Rules Perspective.

Or do we need to start adding a disclaimer to the end of every post saying "Unless of course you and your opponent decide to say 'feth the Rules' and play a bastard child of 40k"?

It was more a Survey

Gwar! wrote:

Sternguard_rock wrote:What's Gue'vesa?

Human Auxiliaries, taken from Human Worlds enslaved by the T'au. Covered in the fluff mostly, had a White Dwarf Article about it, but currently have no rules other than using them as "Counts as" Kroot or Fire Warriors.

Games Workshop has done rules for Tau Human Auxiliaries before. Obviously they they aren't codex legal. (I believe the rules were on the old GW website)

The OP just needs to talk to his opponents and see what they would allow him to do in friendly games.

I have attached the Human Aux rules from GW.

If you field Humans with Tau, I'd use the Auxiliaries rules.

I don't think the Tau would use anything other than Humans with Tau weapons when they were directly working with humans.

Now if the humans allied with Tau were fighting alone then they'd probably use their old Imperial Guard stuff.

But again, I imagine the Tau wouldn't want anything to do with imperial tech.

Alerian wrote:All nice and good fluff....and still illegal outside of Apoc.

I would never allow them to be used, until Tau get a new codex that re-allows human aux.

Meh. Why not really? The biggest reason the haven't been made apart of a Codex yet is that GW hasn't figured out a new model to sell that would represent the Gue'vesa. Fluffwise it's correct, tactically it's marginal.

When I play non-Apoc games, I play standard Guard Infantry platoons with Lasguns, of course by opponents permission only. In Apoc., anything goes!

Lagduf wrote:
I don't think the Tau would use anything other than Humans with Tau weapons when they were directly working the humans.

Now if the humans allied with Tau were fighting alone then they'd probably use their old Imperial Guard stuff.

But again, I imagine the Tau wouldn't want anything to do with imperial tech.

Not true. Not only have the Tau continued to produce wargear such as Lasguns, but they also will equip squads with pulse rifles and carbines.

This is the YMDC forum. This is for rules questions.

Question- Under normal gaming* circumstances, can you take IG and Tau units?
Answer- No

Question-Can you take two force org charts using a different codex for each in a regular game*?
Answer- No, you may take one force org chart using one Codex

If you want to make a special scenario or campaign with its own rules, go ahead.

*I mean one of the three scenarios listed in the little rulebook. If someone walked up to you and said, "Want to play a 1500 point game?", would you be okay if he or she plopped down three five hundred point armies, one using IG, one SM, and one DE?

Actually guys I remember a Chapter Approved thing from like 2 years ago that had the Gue'vesa rules.

I don't know if Chapter Approved still applies for 5th ed, but here is the link.

Note: This link is a copy of what was originally on the GW website, but since their whole 'make it fancy' stage, I could only find this elsewhere

http://theblackship.org/downloads/rules/Tau_human_auxileries.pdf

Hope this helps

EDIT: Lagduf beat me to it

What a gay thread.

Screw you and people like you that want to use bull**** rules against me then cry when I say no.

onlainari wrote:What a gay thread.

Screw you and people like you that want to use bull**** rules against me then cry when I say no.

Onlainari, do you smell that? I think it's you....I smell a

TROLL

Dude, Che vito, that is awesome.

Still, come on Avrik. So then, I can take space marines with guard because I split up my points 500 towards marines and 500 towards Guard right? That logic doesn't work. Use the Gue'vesa rules, or Count's As, and I see no problem.

As a small, add-on question, where exactly does it say your army has to be from a single codex? Because the BRB actually suggests exactly the opposite. "It is quite possible to play Warhammer 40k with an army that consists of every model you own, even if the warriors are from different races". Page vii.
And again, "The best way to do this is to use the full army lists in the relevant Codex book for each army, but players just starting out can use any models that they have in their collection." Page 86
So while it's not purely kosher, if I found a tau commander with a few squads of fire warriors and a leman russ company on the other side of the table, I wouldn't be too unhappy.

honestly? Wow. I've just been pimp-slapped to the face.

Srry bout that Avrik!

Still though, Count As is less hassle. That's the only reason I'd say no.

Che-Vito wrote:

Lagduf wrote:
I don't think the Tau would use anything other than Humans with Tau weapons when they were directly working the humans.

Now if the humans allied with Tau were fighting alone then they'd probably use their old Imperial Guard stuff.

But again, I imagine the Tau wouldn't want anything to do with imperial tech.

Not true. Not only have the Tau continued to produce wargear such as Lasguns, but they also will equip squads with pulse rifles and carbines.

I imagine the Human Auxiliaries are using a mix of imperial and tau weapons [as the 'official' auxiliary rules state] - but I wonder, do the Tau employ human auxiliaries when they seek to conquer other worlds, possibly even imperial worlds?

For some reason I was thinking the Tau wouldn't employ humans in front line situations, leaving them to the rear because of their inferior weapons. Either that or they'd use them as grunts to soften up the attacks. I guess I figured Human auxiliaries were nothing more than planetary defense forces meant to stave off invasions until the Tau showed up with the good tech.

I'll have to check my Tau codex again to see how they get along with the other species they've conquered [Vespid, Kroot, etc].

Ok While I agree with gwar that you should not take gaurd in a tau army, let me put foreward another reason why you should not do it: Game balance, by taking gaurd stuff in the tau army you give them an advantage the games designers have intentionally not given them, henve making your army more powerful than it should be.

For example, Basilisks are strength 9 ap 3, large blast, iirc, now if tau had been designed to have such a weapon in thier army theywould have one instead of the strength 6 ap 4 large blast from submunition railguns.

Bottom line, by putting gaurd units in your tau army you make it more powerful, hence giving any opponant you face a sh**ty time, so you should not do it.

I don't see how I was trolling, it's a valid opinion. You want to use stupid rules and I don't want to say no to you, but I have to. It's best not to ask.

Cryonic: Well I would never have a problem with Space Marines and Guard working together, I mean when you look it over, why not? They are both for the Imperium and there have been instances where they have worked together (to many instances), like I had said, I would never use them in a Tourny or a strict rules game but I'd love to use them out of rules play.

Ladguf: I don't see why the Tau wouldn't use humasn to conquer, I mean, they have millions of them from sevrel planets...where when you look at the kroot, the Tau use them all the time and they are from like...one planet...

Avrik_Shasla wrote:Cryonic: Well I would never have a problem with Space Marines and Guard working together, I mean when you look it over, why not? They are both for the Imperium and there have been instances where they have worked together (to many instances), like I had said, I would never use them in a Tourny or a strict rules game but I'd love to use them out of rules play.

Ah, OK, so you come to your FLGS expecting a game of Randomhammer 40K, and I come expecting to play a game of Warhammer 40K (now with rules!). How well do you think that's going to work?

Outside of apoc or a multiple detachment game, I would not let you use them.


Well, if I could break/make up some rules of my own, then maybe I would.

Me: OK, you've deployed, but I'm using the Exterminatus rule I made up.
You: What is that?
Me: My orbiting spaceships are blowing up your planet. If I roll a 1+, I win.
:Roll:
Me: OK, that's a three. I guess you lose. Good game!

onlainari wrote:I don't see how I was trolling, it's a valid opinion. You want to use stupid rules and I don't want to say no to you, but I have to. It's best not to ask.

You posted your thoughts in a passive and demeaning way to the point which they conveyed little of value. The only difference in this thread between before and after your post was that your post count increased by 1, which I believe was the objective anyways.

Avrik_Shasla wrote:Cryonic: Well I would never have a problem with Space Marines and Guard working together, I mean when you look it over, why not? They are both for the Imperium and there have been instances where they have worked together (to many instances), like I had said, I would never use them in a Tourny or a strict rules game but I'd love to use them out of rules play.

Ladguf: I don't see why the Tau wouldn't use humasn to conquer, I mean, they have millions of them from sevrel planets...where when you look at the kroot, the Tau use them all the time and they are from like...one planet...

If you want to get beyond the "yeah of course", and "no that is so against the rules!" people, simply do this. Get opponents permission, as that is all that really matters, not any of our opinions (unless perchance we happen to be an opponent of yours someday).

Avrik_Shasla wrote:It was more a Survey

And the result of your survey shows that people think you shouldn't randomly mix and match armies.

Besides which even if everyone here agreed that you should be allowed to do what you want then there is still no advantage to it since its still your opponent you have to ask nicely to agree to let you play non-standard army with made up rules, "some guy on the internet said it was ok" isn't going to go very far. If you want to model some up then sure but you're basically only going to be using them on special occasions when you've been aloud to or are counting them as something else.

This was posted in the wrong place...I wasn't asking for permission or asking for a "Hey, these guys said I could so deal with it,". I just wanted to see how many people would be apt to actually letting me use IG, my friends said they would have no problem, so I wanted to take this out of the gaming club.

If your playing with a buddy in your basement, and he don't care, go for it.

If you show up at a tournament, and it wasn't specifically allowed, your probably hosed.

Show up at a store and pull it out? Probably ok as long as the other guy doesn't care and you ask first. If he says no, stick to the tau codex.

In apocalypse, sure, its fine.


But what it looks like is you don't want to have to ask, and are trying to go for the 'guys on Dakka are ok with it'.

Well, if you're using fluff as justification...

The Taros campaign was the first time Guard in large numbers deserted, or at least that we've gotten to read about in detail. Some units got left behind during Damocles Gulf Crusade, but Taros is the first big time.
Most of the planets the Tau have taken have had no real military presences also. A few Guard units, but mostly PDF.

So if you want fluff based Gue'vasa units?
They'll be PDF, using stuff like autoguns, stubbers, and lesser vehicles.
You might have a smattering of Gue'vasa using Carapace Armor(Tau-built armor given to the 'elite' Gue'vasa) and Hellguns(use Pulse Carbines to represent these).

The vast majority of actual Guard units that the Tau took during Damocles/Taros were prisoners. They *might* have cracked and volunteered to join the line, but especially in the case of the Elysians they ended up working the mines of Taros.

You're only going to be able to use Human auxillaries in friendly matches.

End of story.

If you play with random people then every person you play with will have different expectations/standards on what they'll find acceptable.

There isn't going to be one "correct" answer as you so desperately seem to be looking for.

What a bunch of members on this forum think will have little no bearing on what your local gaming scene is like.

For what it's worth i'd let you play with whatever you wanted so long as you had some good backstory to support it and it was clear you weren't coupling Tau with IG to exploit some powerful cross faction combos.

Avrik_Shasla wrote:It was more a Survey

A bad survey, designed to get an answer you wanted. Otherwise, put in a "No, you can't mix the two at all" as an option.