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Or does a Valk or a Vendetta have no good use for the scout ability cause there not dedicated transports.

Can someone please clean up this ruling for me!!!

Also Big Rule Book page numbers also for reference!!

/facepalm

A Unit may embark on any transport (dedicated or not) in reserves.
If Embarked on a transport with scout or Deep Strike, the unit may enter play inside the transport while it outflanks/deep strikes. (People might say otherwise, even though they are the same people who have no problem with Drop Pods. Just Ignore them)

Or you could use the scout move to just move really really fast and raep side armour with your lascannons if you really wanted to.

OK where is this explained in the rule book??

Page 94, Reserves Rules.

Page 94 wrote:Similarly. the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and/or independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit and the transport wilt be rolled for together and will arrive together

Nowhere does it say in order to arrive via an Deep Striking/outflanking Transport the carried unit has to be able to Deep Strike/Outflank. If it did, then SM couldn't arrive via drop pod, since there are no rules saying they may. Instead Drop Pods are just counted as a normal transport that just happens to arrive via deep strike.

And please, one Exclamation/Question mark per sentence is enough.

Drop pods are dedicated transports tho
Valks and Vend..... are not

Don't get me wrong i just need to know how it works with actual rules that state it can work. That's not to hard to ask is it?


And trust me i want this to work! lol

:: EDIT FOR EXCESSIVE PUNCTUATION ::

nickt2245 wrote:Drop pods are dedicated transports tho
Valks and Vend..... are not

As I said, it doesn't matter. The ONLY difference between a Dedicated transport and a non dedicated transport (and please, I must stress the ONLY a lot) is that a Dedicated Transport may have the unit it was bought for start the game deployed and embarked on it, and no other unit may start the game (or embark in reserves) in another squads Dedicated transport.

I have already given you the rules that allow it to work.

There is also an Edit button.

Nice Gwar way to be helpful..... You have taken an excerpt of the rule on something these are not and expanded to work for other things. There isnt anything saying that you can deploy inside transports in your deployment zone! Or is there? I need pages to support the issue not Gwar Hammer 40k.

To clarify what the OP is trying to ask....

He is looking for a ruling in the book that specifically states that you may deploy infantry in non-dedicated transports. While pg 94 does pretty much imply that you are able to, it does not say anything about deploying a transport on the table with a squad of infantry already embarked.

While it is pretty much accepted that you can in fact start the game with units deployed in non-dedicated transports, there are no actual ruling in the book that says "You may start the game with an infantry squad deployed in a non-dedicated transport."

nickt2245 wrote:Nice Gwar way to be helpful..... You have taken an excerpt of the rule on something these are not and expanded to work for other things. There isnt anything saying that you can deploy inside transports in your deployment zone! Or is there? I need pages to support the issue not Gwar Hammer 40k.

You are right, there is no rule specificaly saying you can deploy inside non dedicated transports on the field.

However, there IS a rule saying you may board a transport in Reserves, as I have quoted already.
You can declare that Squad A is embarking on the Valk in reserves, and that the Valk is entering via Outflank/Deepstrike.

Perhaps if you bothered with grammar and readable sentences I might be able to help you better.

@Axyl: you are correct, RaW you cannot deploy in a non dedicated transport if you actually deploy them. If held in reserves, however they may, as it is specifically spelled out in the handy part I quoted there. It doesn't restrict it to dedicated transports only. What RaI might be has no bearing, but I personally feel it is an oversight, but no matter.

Is there a page number on this........ sorry about grammar I'm infact slowed (i could care less i do not suffer from pride)

Gwar! wrote:However, there IS a rule saying you may board a transport in Reserves

Read the quote in my second post please. It's on page 94.

Also, you do know that the meaning of slowed is to have been delayed or impeded. It has nothing to do with Mental Capacity, except as a Derogatory and Offensive slang word.

thank you

Cool so you just outflank them every time! Thats good enough for me.

EDITED BY THE MODQUISITION.

Axyl wrote:While it is pretty much accepted that you can in fact start the game with units deployed in non-dedicated transports, there are no actual ruling in the book that says "You may start the game with an infantry squad deployed in a non-dedicated transport."

Most certainly there is. You can measure range to units embarked on transports, this allows me to prove that a unit inside a transport in my deployment zone is also legally placed in my deployment zone.

On the main question GWAR is right, this time, its irrelevant what the passengers can or can't do.. all they're doing at this stage is sitting in their seats until the 'keep seatbelts fastened' sign turns off. There is no requirement for passengers to have the same special rules as the transport, for illustraitive purposes we can point at the abiltiy to move faster than infantry and fire weapons on the move as well... actions which are similarly uneffected by the presence of passengers.

A lot of people tend to get pre-occupied with the rule that lets outflanking units give their dedicated transport their ability, which is nice but irrelevent to non-dedicated transports. The question we need to ask is can the transport outflank? In the case of a devilfish belonging to pathfinders or a valkerie the answer is yes, it doesn't matter where it gets it's abilty from. It has the rule and may use it.

Now I'm confused, was the "this time" aimed at "GWAR is right" or "its irrelevant what the passengers can or can't do".

I assume its the second one

@ Hymirl:

I've run down that road several times. You can also prove it by stating that since a dedicated transport is limited to the unit it is bought with then it would make since that a non-dedicated transport has no limitation.

There are plenty of logical conclusions and 'clues' in the rule book to state that you are able to deploy in a non-dedicated transport, but there is nothing specifically stating that you can....

...a moot point anyway since I am in fact on your side here. You can deploy embarked in a non-dedicated transport.

Axyl wrote:...but there is nothing specifically stating that you can....

I feel that demanding specific mentions for everything is taking things too far, the basic rules are more than able to handle the sitation so I let them do it. Similarly theres no rule saying you can specificly deploy in area terrain, or on top of a hill and so on. Nevertheless I agree the end result isn't worth being worked up about... after all I'd need to change my avatar for firefox if I wanted to do that in every thread!

Heres what you do;

Buy 50 guards men. Keep 40 in one block (for surviveability/casultie/massed single target firepower) and shave off 10 to get put into that valk.

That valk can now go ahead and do its job & outflank (with the help of an astropath) and move along @ 6" (after arriving, mostly likely, where you want it, again with the help of the astropath) firing 3 tl-lascannons. It is also a scoring vehicle capable of fast-skimmer movement.

Go ahead & go crazy, get creed, & outflank (using the scouts USR) a 3-strong squadren of Leman Russes.

But ofcourse all of these things costs points & while theres many many awesome things you can do (a 10man strong psyker squad in a chimera, with psyhic shooting attack that = str 10 AP d6 large blasts Or -10 on LD that just requires a passed Psychic tests..which can be combined with infiltrating first round-pinning, hot-shot lasgun wielding storm troopers for auto-pinning purposes) it'll be a case of finding a balance to accomplish everything required in an army.

Leman Russes with Pask in one just for fun!

Gwar! wrote:Leman Russes with Pask in one just for fun!

Exactly my point! With soo many awesome things to choose from.. what will you choose. It will be awhile before really optimised lists come out. "But I can put everything in chimeras!" you say.. Well thats 55pts x how many seperate sqauds? Im thinking bare minimum of three & thats using the more expensive vets. 7 if you wanna use normal platoons. If you dont, guard are still guard @ T3 5+.. Be warned

(General, everyone rant btw)

Can I hold an infantry squad and transport in reserves and have the infantry squad come on the board in the transport?

Yar.

I ohnestly couldnt tell you the rule or page, I just know that you can.

I could tell you the page as Gwar has cited it multiple times in this very thread.

Page 94.

"Similarly. the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and/or independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit and the transport wilt be rolled for together and will arrive together"

Sorry for being really slow and dense here. I just need it spelled out.

Unit A buys a dedicated transport capable of Outflanking.

Unit B cannot be deployed inside said transport, if placed on the table during deployment.

Unit B CAN be placed inside the previously mentioned transport and kept in reserve to arrive via Outflank.

Is that correct?

No, the rule which disallows a unit from being deployed in a dedicated transport belonging to a different unit also means that the first unit could not arrive from reserves in the second units transport, as deployment is when the models first arrive on the table.

so if Unit A buys a dedicated transport capable of outflanking, nobody can outflank in it except for Unit A, although the transport could also outflank empty.

With regards to the Valkyries and Vendettas, they are not dedicated transport choices but rather fast attack choices, which means any unit can be deployed in them or choose to arrive from reserves in them.

While I have known some people to disagree in the past it is my feeling that this allows any squad to be inside the valkyrie/vendetta when it is outflanking, regardless of what the squad may be.

Ok. I agree.

I just found the text of the previous posts so convoluted that I needed somebody to clear up what was meant.

Drunkspleen wrote:I could tell you the page as Gwar has cited it multiple times in this very thread.

Whos Gwar?

Razerous wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:I could tell you the page as Gwar has cited it multiple times in this very thread.

Whos Gwar?

You rang?