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After getting all excited when looking at all the different varients of the leman russ, I sat down & actually looked at the different point-costs with the multitude of weapon loadouts.

So - With a tank squad with the scouts USR (So they can outflank.. and theres an astropath) to bare in mind, which is better;

2xLeman russ + a str 7 ap 4 heavy 4 TL-linked cannon plus plasma cannon sponsons & a hull heavy bolter

or

2xLeman russ + a str 7 ap2 heavy 3 blast cannon + hull heavy bolter.

Both = the same points.

I understand the turn they come onto the board I can only fire the main cannon plus one other offensive (str5+) weapon. But afterwards, assuming they remain stationary (which with placement from outflanking shouldnt be a problem) the tanks can fire everything. So with that in mind, which would you say if more effective? Oh, and rate the tanks in themselves rather than what they could do (i.e vanquisher type anti-tank) as ive already got that kinda think covered.

Why in the world would you ever, ever, ever outflank a Leman Russ? It's got good enough range to be shooting from turn one, and it's tough...

Exterminator is a better all-rounder that can murder guys with the plasma sponsons while still knocking down light vehicles reliably.

Plasma Executioner will murder guys and maybe put a hit on a light vehicle.

I would rather have the Exterminator in a take-all-comers list, but I'd take the Executioner if my metagame was solidly MEQ.

But I wouldn't outflank with either.

No it doesnt. 36" isnt good enough, turn one. Outflanking with improved roles from an astropath = trundel-forward time, turns wise. Side/rear armor on most vehicles = light armor.

Its tough, itll be even tougher if it can avoid a turn or two of anti-armor fire.. Id only concider outflanking these anti-troop russes. My own anti-armor from turn one, sure.

But between those two vehicle setups, even without outflanking.. Which is better?

Edit: Cheers guys for the response though

willydstyle wrote:Why in the world would you ever, ever, ever outflank a Leman Russ? It's got good enough range to be shooting from turn one, and it's tough...

A Medusa, on the other hand, could stand to gain a lot by outflanking.

Raxmei wrote:

willydstyle wrote:Why in the world would you ever, ever, ever outflank a Leman Russ? It's got good enough range to be shooting from turn one, and it's tough...

A Medusa, on the other hand, could stand to gain a lot by outflanking.

Its got the range to move 6" & then fire its 48" range weapon at most things. But its a good point.

Likewise... Banewolfs have shorter ranged templates. More deahtly though. Also str 1, that = defensive. So then you can swap its heavy bolter with a heavy flamer (or keep the bolter) and perhaps add in a h.stubber aswell? A couple of those outflanking, able to travel 12" and fire everything.. could equate to infantrycide. When outflanking with an astropath support. Ahh too many ideas. Brain..melting!

Devildogs could do the same thing, although on a lower scale of raw firepower, against heavy infantry & be able to multi-task against armor, with a 12" 2D6 melta range & im pretty sure BS3 blast hitting the side of a sqaud/vehicle > BS3 raw to-hit.

Ahh too many ideas. Brain..melting!

I've run some numbers on the Executioner vs. light vehicles and it actually comes up very solid. While you do have scatter to worry about, because you're shooting at vehicles, you've got a larger footprint to get the center of the marker on top of, so scattering is less of an impediment.

My general rule right now is that if you're running two Russes together in a squadron, load one up with all the goodies and make the other as bare bones as you can for that mission - standard naked russ isn't a bad way to go, although it's armament doesn't always match your primary tank. That way you can use the second tank as ablative armor to take the penetrating hits that would otherwise take out your primary.

That said, I have to agree with willydstyle in that I don't necessarily think that outflanking russes is the way to go.

Fair doos. I think Id either go with the 2xexecutioner, bare bones, outflanking because 6 str 7 ap 2 blasts sounds fun & ive got heavy bolters/auto cannons elswhere in the (suposed) list.

As for where-ever or not it would actually be effective.. im starting to think it probably isnt the best idea & maybe a hellhound or varient would do better but it would be amusing.

This is news to me. What gives the Leman Russes the ability to Outflank?

GhostRecon wrote:This is news to me. What gives the Leman Russes the ability to Outflank?

Creed

Creed is also an excellent commander with his Orders & 24" order range (compared to 12").

But he is a 90pt addition to a 50pt squad (cheapest option) that you have to buy as a mandatory choice. So expensive...

I would like to second the idea of medusas outflanking especially if you're playing creed which means you are most likely taking infantry heavy guard?

Need more info on the rest of your army to tell what's really good.

Yeah have to agree with folks, no need to outflank russes. Now a squadron of those devil dogs -- they are fragile and are fast vehicles and can put a hurt on some pesky artillery.

The executioner is the best tank you can get in the IG right now if you ask me. The only thing it can't do is kill other heavy vehicles, but who cares since there're much better options in the guard codex than tanks for this (three melta squad).

The executioner kills everything, marines, nids, orks, necrons and is great at taking out light vehicles.

36" might seem like short range, but if the other guy gets the first turn, you're guaranteed to have plenty of things to shoot at.

I get not Russes but why not Hellhounds?

They have that nifty flame template that has never let me down in the past.
And the outflanking compensates for the 12' range now. It could really screw up your opponent's ranged units sitting in cover.

Not a thread-jack just a thought.

hmmmmmmm, outflanking with 3 leman russes would certainly put the enemy off their battleplan, and their lunch. If you were facing hordes, outflanking with a couple of vanilla russes and a kitted out punisher would be mind-boggling.

Sgt. Salt wrote:I get not Russes but why not Hellhounds?

They have that nifty flame template that has never let me down in the past.
And the outflanking compensates for the 12' range now. It could really screw up your opponent's ranged units sitting in cover.

Not a thread-jack just a thought.

Hellhounds kind of suck now. Yeah they can outflank, but the absolute nunmber one way most armies can kill tanks is swarming them with guys and beating on their AV 10 rear. Hellhounds have to get too close to do anything and for the points, a colossus does the same thing and can't be touched. Also keep in mind, you can no longer rotate the flame template to cover the maximum amount of models. It has to fly straight out from the Hellhound now. The rules are ridiculously specific about this, and it basically gimps the Hellhound into non-use forever if you ask me.

Also, something like an executioner is going to kill a lot more stuff, all game long, than a Hellhound will. The Eradicator is also a much better choice for what the Hellhound can do, because it can ignore cover saves from 36" away... not 12".

Kasrkinlegion wrote:Also keep in mind, you can no longer rotate the flame template to cover the maximum amount of models. It has to fly straight out from the Hellhound now. The rules are ridiculously specific about this, and it basically gimps the Hellhound into non-use forever if you ask me.

You need to reread the Hellhound rules.

You place the narrow end anywhere withing 12" and then the wide end has to be anywhere beyond that point. It effectively gives you a 180 degree arc.

Not quite as easy to place as the old rules, but the fact that you no longer have to roll for partials... I find that I am doing more damage that I used to.


However, it doesn't get around the fact that you have to get dangerously close to use it.

LR Eradicator is a better choice, but it is also a heavy slot.

The question is, which is the better anti infantry in the fast slots? Valk w/ missile pods? Hellhound?

BoxANT wrote:
The question is, which is the better anti infantry in the fast slots? Valk w/ missile pods?

Absolutely... hellfury missiles also...