Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

That's a really, really fine line. Personally, I couldn't call the sergeant a separate group because he is, in fact, identical to the other models in every way but moniker.

In the spirit of rules quoting, read the first paragraph on page 25 of the BGB.

AdrianG wrote:As far as I'm aware, the sergeant is the squad leader and therefore part of that squad.
Not a separate entity.

Normally, a sergeant has a different stat line or special wargear, thus making him a separate "group" of models for the purpose of wound alocation. In the case of a squad full of SS/TH termies, though, there is absolutely nothing - in terms of game play, wargear, and special rules - to distinguish the sarge from the others.

BGB wrote:The rules for taking saving throws and removing casualties... assume that all the models in the target unit are identical in gaming terms. By this we mean they have the same profile of characteristics, the same special rules and the same wargear.

Let's break it down:
1. Profile - they quite literally have the same profile of characteristics, even though it is listed separately.
2. Special Rules - there are no special rules to separate the sarge from the others; he operates in the exact same way as his brother terminators.
3. Wargear - this is the only item that is mutable within the squad, and depends on how you've upgraded your marines.

I see the argument, and I think I understand why you're making it (as in, what purpose it would serve). However, I think by specifically stating the "same profile of characteristics" in combination with "identical in gaming terms", they solidify that this is a case when the sergeant is no longer differentiated from his squad.

Gwar! wrote:But he is. The name of the profile still must be taken into consideration, otherwise they would not bother to give him a Separate Statline, especially in the case of Assault terminators where they have a grand total of 2 options to pick from.

If it was intended for him to be counted as the same, why not just make it "5 Assault terminators" rather than 1 Terminator Sergeant and 4 Assault Terminators? I mean the sergeant has the exact same weapon options and other stats as his squad, so why bother putting a separate statline for him if it didn't count as a separate group for wound allocation?

I can only assume that the reason the sergeant is listed is because EVERY marine unit (other than vehicles and ICs) has a sergeant. I've bolded the part that makes the point of the argument.

Gwar! wrote:So if you had a squad of 5 TH/SS termis and 5 LC ones, the sergeant being a LC one, you would contend that there are only 2 groups for wound allocation, despite the fact its spelled out that he has a different profile.

Yes.

Gwar! wrote:Again, I still cannot see why they would bother giving the Assault Terminators a sergeant statline at all if it did not affect anything.

See first statement above.