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Please critique this list

Ku'gath-300

Epidemius -110

X3 Beasts of Nurgle -105

X3 Beasts of Nurgle -105

X3 Beasts of Nurgle -105

X20 Plaguebearers - 300

X10 Plaguebearers-150

X10 Plaguebearers-150

Daemon Prince-200
-Wings
-Mark of Nurgle
-Iron Hide

Daemon Prince-200
-Wings
-Mark of Nurgle
-Iron Hide

Epidemius goes with 20 man plague bearer. I pick out easy to kill stuff first to build up Epedimius's bonus then kill every thing else. Daemon prince's are for anti armor.

1725 - where to use other 25 points?

I'd make the other PB units bigger. I'd also go with Soul Grinders over Daemon Princes. Sure the Grinders don't help the tally, but it will get up there fine enough with the PBs, Ku'Gath and Beasts for sure. I'd probably drop 6 Beasts and the Princes to get 2 Grinders with Tongue and/or Phlem and as many PBs for each smaller unit as you can.

why more PB over the beasts? and why soulgrinder over DP?

In my opinion the grinder is so good it doesnt matter that it doesnt tally.

Im sure thats his reason too.

I have to disagree, I'd take out one of the beast squads then add another prince. take the wings off, you are deep striking. Maybe one can have wings.

Definately should split up the big PB squad, tho

Best DP config: 140? (off the top of my sleepy head)
MoN
Iron Hide
Cloud of Flies
Unholy Might

I like it and it looks fun to play. With your spare points, I would throw noxious touch on the princes. You want them to be heavy hitters to raise the tally early. But, if you want Anti armor specifically, then I would take soul grinders with tongue instead of princes. Nurgle struggles with armor, so soul grinders are a good choice here. Debatable, but if you are looking for anti armor, then use Soul grinders. Also, as cool and as good as Ku'gath is, he is over priced for what he does. Consider taking a GUO with breath and flies and use the extra points on beasts.

Where are your nurglings?

With a 20 count, nurglings get 4 attacks on the charge with a 2+ to wound and no armor saves.

Thanks for all the fed back guys.
The reason that I chose to leave noxious off the princes, is that hopefully by turn 2 or 3 my whole army should have it due to epedemius.
Cloud of flys on DP is bad idea because then he gets no str vs vehicles, only 2d6.
After playing my first game I agree that maybe grinders might be a better option. I also agree with the ku'gath comment, very cool and intimidating on the board, but he just didn't do 300 points worth of work, so I think I will drop him to a GUO with breath, that way he will be good aginst vehicles too. I would also like to find some room for nurglings. I will work on list tomorrow and repost. Thanks again
p.s. I want to make sure that I am reading cloud of fly's right. The way I understand it, a MC with cloud is 2d6 vs vehicles right? Thats what no str bonus means right?

No COF gives you offensive and defensive gernades witch means you can assalt into cover and go on initive and when some one assaluts you they do not get the +1 attack.

Brother Condon wrote:Thanks for all the fed back guys.
The reason that I chose to leave noxious off the princes, is that hopefully by turn 2 or 3 my whole army should have it due to epedemius.
Cloud of flys on DP is bad idea because then he gets no str vs vehicles, only 2d6.
After playing my first game I agree that maybe grinders might be a better option. I also agree with the ku'gath comment, very cool and intimidating on the board, but he just didn't do 300 points worth of work, so I think I will drop him to a GUO with breath, that way he will be good aginst vehicles too. I would also like to find some room for nurglings. I will work on list tomorrow and repost. Thanks again
p.s. I want to make sure that I am reading cloud of fly's right. The way I understand it, a MC with cloud is 2d6 vs vehicles right? Thats what no str bonus means right?

Let me back up what jason005 us saying as well. Cloud of Flies give you the benefit of both grenade types, but having grenades of those types normally grant you a grenade attack against vehicles you can use INSTEAD of your normal attacks. What that whole strength bonus thing means is that you don't get the option of using "grenades" in CC against vehicles; you have to use your normal attack. Because stuffing a giant flying maggot in the tailpipe of a rhino isn't going to cause it to explode. A giant plague sword will. And not taking noxious touch is almost criminal. Princes with Nox and Daemonic Gaze are how you get the count to 20 in a few turns. Good choice on the Ku'gath, btw. I use a GUO with just Cloud of Flies. Breath is nice, but it's pricey and only good one or two turns at most, and only really good when the bearer is a second wave drop and paired with an icon.

People who tell you to use soul grinders don't know what the hell they're talking about, btw. Once grinder, maybe, at most. Two or more will cripple your list.

Valhallan- Thanks for trying to explain cloud. But I am still unsure as to how what it says means no grenade attacks. The rule books says MC are 2d6 + str armor pin. Codex clearly says model with fly's get no str bonus when penetrating armor. Not sure how that is translated into "no grenade attack? Please clearify

Read the rules from the main rule book regarding grenades (like frag and krak) giving str bonuses in CC against vehicles.

That is the str bonus is that the rule is referring to.

Gotcha! Thanks again for the help. New list later today

Armor will roll over you without grinders w/tounge. I have played the tally list for about 6 months now and you absolutly need grinders atleast 2.

Beasts are not worth the points. Nurglings are far better than beasts for the tally list.

They are also right about the grenades, you get no str bonus for using the grenades against vehicals. You can still use normal CC attacks against a vehical and get your MC bonus.

Out of the two big tournaments I have played with my nurgle I have won 1 60 man in tennessee, and placed 13th in the championships at adepticon. (just incase you wanted some validation of my opinions)

My 2k list is simple (quick and dirty)

Epidemus
Ku'gath
20 PB
20 PB
20 PB
6 Nurglings
6 Nurglings
6 Nurglings
2 x Soul grinder tounge/phlegm

The magic number for the list is 10, 20 does not matter as wounding on 2's is effective enough to kill 10 terminators on the charge.

I've run a nurgle deamon list a lot of times.

So here are my thoughts.

Drop Ku'gath. He's too expensive. Take a regular GUO.

I usually run one big unit of 7 beasts of nurgle. Remember they have multiple wounds so if you take different equipment on them you spread out the wounds and they stay alive a lot longer.

Taking 3 units of 3 will get killed piece meal. You need them to come in, beable to take a lot of fire and then start munching in hth. If your 3 squads come in on different turns they will never see combat, plus 3 small units hurts you in KP missions.

For the Epidemius squad you probably don't need a full 20. You could save some points there. The 2 X 10 man squads are perfect.

Nurglings can be awesome in an Epi list. They do things like like go to ground on an objective to contest it then massacre the crap out of someone if anyone gets close.

Finally, the really important discussion.

HVY SUPPORT:

I think deamon princes are the best choice to get the count up. I started with 3 guys with wings with mixed results. They are great at locking down a combat for the heavy hitters to come in an clean up, but They don't add to the kill count fast enough.

So instead I dropped the wings and started taking the Assulat 3 S5 AP3 shooting weapons. DPs have a BS5. So you are causing a ton of wounds. Just shoot the anything out in the open even if it's crap. Get you count up and your golden.

Also, I think it's obvious but it should be said. hide and MON are basically mandatory for these guys. But they are not your killers in the end, your basic troops are. The DPs are disposable so don;t spend too many points on them.

Pete

Clay Williams wrote:Armor will roll over you without grinders w/tounge. I have played the tally list for about 6 months now and you absolutly need grinders atleast 2.

Beasts are not worth the points. Nurglings are far better than beasts for the tally list.

They are also right about the grenades, you get no str bonus for using the grenades against vehicals. You can still use normal CC attacks against a vehical and get your MC bonus.

Out of the two big tournaments I have played with my nurgle I have won 1 60 man in tennessee, and placed 13th in the championships at adepticon. (just incase you wanted some validation of my opinions)

My 2k list is simple (quick and dirty)

Epidemus
Ku'gath
20 PB
20 PB
20 PB
6 Nurglings
6 Nurglings
6 Nurglings
2 x Soul grinder tounge/phlegm

The magic number for the list is 10, 20 does not matter as wounding on 2's is effective enough to kill 10 terminators on the charge.

Given your experience, what advice would you give for mirror matches? IE, when facing people with nurgle CSM or daemon forces?

For demons. Stay out of CC because you will suffer as much as your opponent unless you can hit them and know you are going to wipe the squad before they get to strike. Shooting is key here, whoever can weaken his opponent the fastest and get the mop ups will win.

CSM is actually different, get in CC quick! Thier shooting is going to hurt demons alot more than demons shooting can return. Your numbers should work to your advantage in this match up.

Ok so I want to start by saying thanks for all the help with the list.
Ok so first the choice between grinders or princes. I agree with the folks that said for anti armor that grinders are better. However, first because my desire for this list was to be a 100% followers of nurgle list I have chosen to stay with DP. Beasts, I agree that most of the time a unit of three models, especially a SLow and purposful model will get shot up. But my idea for these units will be like "finishing up units". The idea would be that the tally is getting up there by the time they reach combat. So ideally when they finally do charge they will be rolling d6 attacks that wound on 2's and reroll to wounds against tough 4 and lower. Also, as far as equiping the beasts differently, the only option you have is giving one model noxious, and I simply can't bring myself to pay for it when when playing by my strategy the should get it anyway. I really like the idea of using DP as a tally increaser. I agree that they are expandable, but I feel that I need the wings to help against mechanized lists. I chose to drop kugath down to a reagular GUO simple for points, I am sorry to loss the template and the nurgle spawning but this list he is too expansive. I like nurglings but I think that plague bearers are more worth the points due to FNP and being a scoring unit. Ok so heres the list I am going to play this weekend.

Great Unclean One-195
-Cloud
-Breath

Epidemius-110

X3 Beatsts of Nurgle-105

X3 Beatsts of Nurgle-105

X3 Beatsts of Nurgle-105

X10 Plaugebearers-150

X10 Plaugebearers-150

X10 Plaugebearers-150

Daemon Prince - 220
-Wings
-Iron Hide
-Nurgle
-Gaze

Daemon Prince - 220
-Wings
-Iron Hide
-Nurgle
-Gaze

Daemon Prince - 220
-Wings
-Iron Hide
-Nurgle
-Gaze

I feel the list will suffer because there arn't enough models in the troop choice. Do you think the 220 points for the third DP would be better spent on more plague bearer? Let me know

Yeah, if I see anyone field low numbers of troops then I always target them till they are gone. Objectives are going to be way to hard for you to hold on to with those low numbers of pbs. The are tough, but they are not that tough.

If you want to play fluffy thats cool I comend you for it. DPs do not help you take out Mech lists though, those will get cut down pretty fast.

Yea I think I will drop one do and buy somemore plaguebearers. Post new list later

At 1750 30 PBs are more than enough. I run 2 units of 10 PBs an unit of 12 blood letters in my competitive build and have no issue holding objective in the end game.

Just remember that one unit can hold multiple objectives, and that you can go to ground in cover to basically become a 3+ with 4+ FNP with T5. After doing this once or twice most opponents just say screw it and deal with other stuff.

I do question the ability of 10 PBs to guard Epi though...

I wouldn't take less than 14.

Anyway, I'll reiterate that the you'll find the unit of 3 lack luster, and that the really big advantage of them is that they are multi wound models so the unit should take the champion, muscian amd maybe even the icon... The rules for allocating wounds are just broken. Take advantage of that :p

Finally, where's you icons?

You should really have one. I would suggest one on a 10 man PB squad and one in the BONs. Bring the BONs in second wave. Thus if you get the wrong half of your army you still have an icon anchor.

Finally, it's probably a weird suggestion, but I've run the masque with my nurgle list a couple times. (think nurgle ogre cheerleader from blood bowl).

With such a slow list pulling a bunch of units closer won me a ton of games.

Pete

Defl0 what else do you take in your list?

Other more dangerous units like blood chrushers may tend to draw attention off your PB's =P So saying 10 units is enough for your army is fine but you kinda need to let people know what else you are taking in order for those 10 to actually survive.

Ok so heres the list for this weekend. No more changes tell after I play another game or two.

Kugath-300

Epidemius-110

X7 Beast of Nurgle-245

X10 Plaguebearers - 150

X10 Plaguebearers - 150

X10 Plaguebearers - 150

X10 Plaguebearers - 150

Deamon Prince - 165
-Iron Hide
-Mark of Nurgle
-Daemonic Gaze
-Cloud of Flys

Deamon Prince - 165
-Iron Hide
-Mark of Nurgle
-Daemonic Gaze
-Cloud of Flys

Deamon Prince - 165
-Iron Hide
-Mark of Nurgle
-Daemonic Gaze
-Cloud of Flys

1750


Ok for everyone who is going "That jerk didn't listen to anything I said." I descided to give kugath another try simply because of my misunderstanding of cloud of flys. There have been a couple of folks who suggested paying for upgrades on the Beast of nurgle squads, The only Option you have is to give One guy Noxious touch, thats it, no icon, no instrament. So because ideally by end of turn one I will have it anyway, and the fact that would only give me one "odd man out" in the squad I still didn't buy it. Again I stuck with DP's over Grinders for my oun personal satisfaction, I want to stay 100% followers of nurgle. But because of nurgles lack of anti armor I dropped the wings and some beasts for another DP. I figured that 60 points per DP is too much for wings on a model that deep strikes anyway. I found the room for one nurgling squad at first but then opted for a full beast squad for epidemius instead. Basic strategy on sat will be to DS all 4 of my monsterous creatures and epidemius with beast squad on first turn, and do as many wounds with my shooting as I can. Then hopefully as my PB's start to come on the board and as demus moves up to fight, they will already be wounding on 2's and then hopefully by the end of turn 2 or 3 I have power weapons in the whole army. Can someone tell me, do vehicles count toward the tally? wording says "keep count of all models kill by followers of nurgle" thanks again guys, I'll give you some summaries of the battle I have this weekend.
I do want to gt everyones opinion on one thing in particular though. With the list above, would the list be better with one less 10 man PB, and one less beast in Epidemious squad, and wings on all three DP's?

Armor of any type does not count. It says "models with wounds".

The changes are for the better. Mech lists are still going to give you hell.

Clay- Epidemius doesn't reference wounds. Direct quote-
"Whilst Epidemius is on the table, keep a count of all models killed by followers of Nurgle ... anywhere on the table. At the start of each of your turns, consult the table below to determine the effect of the tally of pestilence."
So again I ask why wouldn't they count? Clay if that rule is somewhere in the codex I am missing it let me know where. thanks

I like your latest version of the list a lot more than the first one. Keeping DPs is fine, it just makes it very dificult for you to deal with mechanized lists (as Clay pointed out, and he is really the man when it comes to Nurgle Daemons).

Clay was the tournament in TN the indy GT in Nashville?

Nah it was Battle for Stones River put on by Grand Adventures games and comics.

The Indy GT was in Cleveland TN. Oh man dont even get me started on that tournament. I was doing all well and good minor win 3 majors ... and one friggin game of horribad dice. I lost Ku'gath to 7 normal wounds in assualt ... SEVEN!! Thats roll 7 dice needing 4+'s ... and reroll and still fail ... =P that was the turning tide of that game as it took punch outa my army. Not to mention a soul grinder spending 4+ rounds of combat with 1 tac marine. I placed somewhere in the top 10 in that one .. I think 5th or 6th overall.

O and Condon you are right. It is models killed. I havent been playing it that way, and thus, screwing myself over =)

Wings are not worth the cost, much less 3, and as others have already said, soulgrinders are better anyway.

I know you like the idea of a tally list, but just know that there will be games when epidemius doesn't even get on the table until turn 5.

Having a list that depends heavily on one model is bad enough, but with the demon's crippling deployment its just plain foolhearty.

I hate to say it, but bloodcrushers, plaguebearers, and soulgrinders are the only things worth getting.

Ok, so I keep saying "no more changes", but I lied. Newest list, and the one I am playing for sure! P )
Ok so heres the list for this weekend. No more changes tell after I play another game or two.

Kugath-300

Epidemius-110

X7 Beast of Nurgle-245

X7 Plaguebearer - 105

X7 Plaguebearer - 105

X7 Plaguebearer - 105

X7 Plaguebearer - 105

X7 Plaguebearer - 105

Daemon Prince - 165
-Iron Hide
-Mark of Nurgle
-Daemonic Gaze
-Cloud of Flys

Daemon Prince - 165
-Iron Hide
-Mark of Nurgle
-Daemonic Gaze
-Cloud of Flys

Daemon Prince - 240
-Iron Hide
-Mark of Nurgle
-Daemonic Gaze
-Wings
-Unholy Str
1750

So I am aware that this list has been a little "all over", so thanks for all the input and help

Why split the PBs up? this does not even help your deployment. Plus it takes some of the punch out of your charges when the tally is up. Remember the PBs are striking at init 1 when charging and only getting 1 attack when defending. LC termies and relic blade squads (with 2 or 3 blades) are going to tear your face off with those low numbered squads.

Orks, Choas, and tyranids will also have a field day with small number squads.