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So my last army build got very mixed results. I sat down and built an alternate one I would enjoy playing. Let me know what you think.

HQ
Abaddon the Despiler 275

Elites
6 Chosen CSM 3 w/ Melta 1 w/ Icon of Chaos Glory w/ Rhino Trasnport 183
6 Chosen CSM 3 w/ Melta 1 w/ Icon of Chaos Glory w/ Rhino Trasnport 183

Troops
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Plasma Gun w/ Rhino Transport 215
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Flamer w/ Rhino Trasnport 205
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Melta Gun w/ Rhino Trasnport 205
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Plasma Gun w/ Rhino Transport 215

Heavy Support
Chaos Defiler with Close-Combat weapon replacing Flamer 150
8 Chaos Havocs 2 w/ Autocannons 1 w/ Lascannon 1 w/ Missle Launcher 215

Total: 1846

One thing that jumps out at me is that if you are going to take Abaddon, you need a way to get him into combat, or he won't make his points back.

extrenm(54) wrote:One thing that jumps out at me is that if you are going to take Abaddon, you need a way to get him into combat, or he won't make his points back.

True....... I may switch him out for Fabius Bile and use the additional points to field some more troops.

Fabius Bile. He fights like a Grot.

I guess you want to let the Chosen outflank. They don't need icons since if they get targeted they are dead.

The army lacks a unit that has cc punch. But it appears you can compensate this with your fire power.

wuestenfux wrote:Fabius Bile. He fights like a Grot.

I guess you want to let the Chosen outflank. They don't need icons since if they get targeted they are dead.

The army lacks a unit that has cc punch. But it appears you can compensate this with your fire power.

My defiler has a bit of a CC punch. 4 attacks.

I would suggest swapping out your heavy support for a land raider with a squad of 4 terminators and abbaddon in it, albeit it might be a little vulnerable. I would therefore also recommend swapping your plasma squad marines for a squad of khorne berserkers, mounting them in the raider, and using your terminators to deep strike.

CaptainCommunsism wrote:I would suggest swapping out your heavy support for a land raider with a squad of 4 terminators and abbaddon in it, albeit it might be a little vulnerable. I would therefore also recommend swapping your plasma squad marines for a squad of khorne berserkers, mounting them in the raider, and using your terminators to deep strike.

I went without the terminators. Here is the new build I came up with. I removed the Rhino from the Chosen because they can infiltrate. I left them with their IOCG's and added Summoned Lesser Chaos Daemons. This way, the Chosen can start out right near combat and get the Lesser Daemons out there and into combat fairly fast. I also figure the Chosen could provide some suppressing fire as the leser daemons rip some people up. I went with 7 Khorne and 1 Skull Champion so they might ride in the LR at maximum units allowed in the raider with Abaddon. I kept the Defiler in the build because well..... It's just freaking cool lol.

HQ
Abaddon the Despoiler 275

Elites
6 Chosen CSM 3 w/ Melta 1 w/ Icon of Chaos Glory 138
6 Chosen CSM 3 w/ Melta 1 w/ Icon of Chaos Glory 138

Troops
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Plasma Gun w/ Rhino Transport 215
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Flamer w/ Rhino Trasnport 205
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Melta Gun w/ Rhino Trasnport 205
7 Khorne Berserkers 1 Skull Champion 183

Heavy Support
Chaos Defiler with Close-Combat weapon replacing Flamer 150
Land Raider with Daemonic Posession and dozer blade 245

SUMMONED
7 Lesser Chaos Daemons 91



1845


Also what do you mean "Fights like Grot"? Grot means a cave..... He fights like a cave?

Anyone care to tell me what the heck "Fights like a Grot" means lol

Fighting like a grot means he's no good.

Also, if you're going to field khorne berzerkers, they NEED a rhino, daemonic possession possibly, and a full 10 men. Take out some of the lesser Daemons for this. If you're slogging them up the field, you won't see them at full power in CC.

EDIT: Also, you should be using that defiler normal, no differences. Defilers aren't made to move into CC. They're there for the template. When you fire that, nothing else fires and you can't move, so it's stuck shooting. If it has it's battlecannon destroyed, it's properly balanced as it is witht he flamer.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:Fighting like a grot means he's no good.

Also, if you're going to field khorne berzerkers, they NEED a rhino, daemonic possession possibly, and a full 10 men. Take out some of the lesser Daemons for this. If you're slogging them up the field, you won't see them at full power in CC.

EDIT: Also, you should be using that defiler normal, no differences. Defilers aren't made to move into CC. They're there for the template. When you fire that, nothing else fires and you can't move, so it's stuck shooting. If it has it's battlecannon destroyed, it's properly balanced as it is witht he flamer.

The khornes will be inside the Landraider with Abaddon. So your advising me to just keep the flame?

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:EDIT: Also, you should be using that defiler normal, no differences. Defilers aren't made to move into CC. They're there for the template. When you fire that, nothing else fires and you can't move, so it's stuck shooting. If it has it's battlecannon destroyed, it's properly balanced as it is witht he flamer.

Defilers can move and shoot the battlecannon. But no, you can't shoot any other weapons. I load mine out with CCW in case they get a chance to hit someone in assault, but 9 times out of 10, they won't get there, and get immobilized first turn, so don't rely on getting to CC, even with fleet.

Beamo wrote:

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:EDIT: Also, you should be using that defiler normal, no differences. Defilers aren't made to move into CC. They're there for the template. When you fire that, nothing else fires and you can't move, so it's stuck shooting. If it has it's battlecannon destroyed, it's properly balanced as it is witht he flamer.

Defilers can move and shoot the battlecannon. But no, you can't shoot any other weapons. I load mine out with CCW in case they get a chance to hit someone in assault, but 9 times out of 10, they won't get there, and get immobilized first turn, so don't rely on getting to CC, even with fleet.

Fair enough. However, It's still just supressing fire style piece in my army. The real idea is to get the Chosen up to a spot to wreak havoc via Infilitrate while the rhinos (surrounding the land raider) will move up and unload the troops who will then proceed to fire like mad men.... The rhinos and land raider can do this as well.

I really like this list, and there's not much I can prescribe for you other than the following:

For your second list, lesser daemons are just no good, for 2 points more you could get another marine who fights just well, has a better armor save, etc.

Personally I don't like Defilers, though they look awesome mine tend to die if someone so much as breathes on them, even if I'm keeping them in cover, using them as a firing platform, fighting CC with enemies with power fists, etc. I believe obliterators are much better. They're much more versatile for anti-tank anti-infantry roles, can get cover much more easily, I'd rather lose 75 points to a lascannon than 150 points for a defiler, AP1 and 2 roles, etc.

Havocs in my experience are just awful, and the ones you've got there don't really have weapons suited for any particular role. Autocannons will hardly ever kill a vehicle, which is what it looks like you've optimized the squad for. Personally I'd replace these with obliterators too, or if you really can't spare the money or convert terminators to obliterators simply use the defiler (a defiler and 6 obliterators would work well, though I like to max them out personally)

As for your squads their loadout's really good, though I'd switch the plasma guns for meltas because they have an anti-tank role and can instantly kill most characters, all at the expense of limited range and 1 less shot, and there's no annoying overheat which I always seem to get :S Other than that I strongly suggest you use champions with power fists, the extra 40 points is staggering, but after playing a few games with it, when you get into combat I'm sure you'll find it's well worth it, especially against Necrons.

Khorne berzerkers are good too, but if you're going for that I'd suggest giving the skull champion a power weapon, it makes a huge difference in combat.

That's just my lengthy opinion

Zoot wrote:I really like this list, and there's not much I can prescribe for you other than the following:

For your second list, lesser daemons are just no good, for 2 points more you could get another marine who fights just well, has a better armor save, etc.

Personally I don't like Defilers, though they look awesome mine tend to die if someone so much as breathes on them, even if I'm keeping them in cover, using them as a firing platform, fighting CC with enemies with power fists, etc. I believe obliterators are much better. They're much more versatile for anti-tank anti-infantry roles, can get cover much more easily, I'd rather lose 75 points to a lascannon than 150 points for a defiler, AP1 and 2 roles, etc.

Havocs in my experience are just awful, and the ones you've got there don't really have weapons suited for any particular role. Autocannons will hardly ever kill a vehicle, which is what it looks like you've optimized the squad for. Personally I'd replace these with obliterators too, or if you really can't spare the money or convert terminators to obliterators simply use the defiler (a defiler and 6 obliterators would work well, though I like to max them out personally)

As for your squads their loadout's really good, though I'd switch the plasma guns for meltas because they have an anti-tank role and can instantly kill most characters, all at the expense of limited range and 1 less shot, and there's no annoying overheat which I always seem to get :S Other than that I strongly suggest you use champions with power fists, the extra 40 points is staggering, but after playing a few games with it, when you get into combat I'm sure you'll find it's well worth it, especially against Necrons.

Khorne berzerkers are good too, but if you're going for that I'd suggest giving the skull champion a power weapon, it makes a huge difference in combat.

That's just my lengthy opinion

I ditched the havocs. I have heard the Lesser Chaos Daemons are a secret weapon of the CSMs.

Good on you for ditching the Havocs As for Chaos Daemons they work nicely in theory, but in practice you'll find they won't do much, the fact that they get the same attacks as a chaos marine, you can't tell when they're going to show up because of the deep strike, can't be transported like your troops in a rhino which is ideal for your list, etc, makes them not worth running sadly :(

Zoot wrote:Good on you for ditching the Havocs As for Chaos Daemons they work nicely in theory, but in practice you'll find they won't do much, the fact that they get the same attacks as a chaos marine, you can't tell when they're going to show up because of the deep strike, can't be transported like your troops in a rhino which is ideal for your list, etc, makes them not worth running sadly :(

Gonna remove them from the army entirely actually. I made a boo-boo on my model building.... Accidentally gave my Khornes an Icon of Chaos Glory but they get a mark anyway so I will just change which Icon it is. I'll use the excess points to give my CSM's icons to make them a bit better. If nothing else it's a cool looking Khorne Berserker. I'll also probably distribute some of the points to up my rhinos a bit more. Here is what i edited the build to look like:
HQ
Abaddon the Despoiler 275

Elites
6 Chosen CSM 3 w/ Melta 138
6 Chosen CSM 3 w/ Melta 138

Troops
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Plasma Gun w/ Rhino Transport 215
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Flamer w/ Rhino Trasnport Bolter 210
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Melta Gun w/ Rhino Trasnport w/ Pintle mounted Havoc Launcher 225
7 Khorne Berserkers 1 Skull Champion 183

Heavy Support
Chaos Defiler with Close-Combat weapon replacing Flamer 150
Land Raider with Daemonic Posession and dozer blade 245
1 Obliterator Cult 75

1849

It's a slower moving army but it is very much a heavy firepower army. I figure the Obliterator can deepstrike in near the rhinos and lascannon the crap out of vehicles that the LandRaider misses.

Looks like a much better list, though if you can I think you still need to make room for powerfists, you'd be surprised just how good you'll go against space marines and their equivelants if you have them. The skull champion also needs a power weapon. You should remove the lone defiler to give the three ordinary squads powerfists and the khorne berzerkers a power weapon

Bad zoot! Bad naughty zoot! You turned on the grail shaped beacon again! AAAAAAAAAAAAANYWAY.... I'll keep the defiler in for now and if worse comes to worse, I can also redo the list again. The defiler is my baby lol.

Well, let's start...

HQ - ok

Elite: very weak choice. It's better to take one 5 man squad of chosen marines with 3 melta + 2 plasma gun (or 5 melta guns) and put them in rhino. They're mission is to get from outflank,jump out from rhino and shoot at side/rear tank's armour. Let's be honest - they'll probably die next turn so there is no point to overload them with to many guys. 5 is good enough.

Troops: Why does skull champion is without even power weapon (or even power fist)??? That's waste of points. It would be a good idea if all troops had champion with fist. And havoc launcher on rhino is not a good idea.

Heavy: defiler is ok, land raider doesn't need dozer blade. Why? You will go like a mad (over 6'') to deliver Abbaddon and Berserkers as fast as as you can, so blade is useless.
1 obliterator looks... weak? These guys feel better if are fielded as a pair

Fair enough. Like I said I will give it a shot and see if it pans out. If nothing else, it's a fun army to paint

Well I can tank shock and unload the landraider in the same turn right? I figured if this can be done all the rhinos can tank shock as can the landraider and Killy McStabem, er...... Abaddon can run them down and the others can hit them with some heavy fire.

Getting better.
I would drop one chosen squad altogether, drop the second to 5 in a rhino with 5 meltas, drop all of the vehicle upgrades, and do the following:
PF for CSM champs
Drop the skull champ - 7 berserkers is enough with Abby, no champ needed.
Add 1 Obliterator.

Inigo Montoya wrote:Getting better.
I would drop one chosen squad altogether, drop the second to 5 in a rhino with 5 meltas, drop all of the vehicle upgrades, and do the following:
PF for CSM champs
Drop the skull champ - 7 berserkers is enough with Abby, no champ needed.
Add 1 Obliterator.

Don't have any CSM champs.

For starters, LD don't Deep Strike, they come off an icon. And have CSM champs with fists whenever possible. And give your Berzerker champ a Fist, not a power weapon, because he only has init 5 for one turn, but he could have str 8 for every turn. AND I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Pretty much always.

Just got what you meant. CSM champs aren't a particular model, they're just one that looks different.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:For starters, LD don't Deep Strike, they come off an icon. And have CSM champs with fists whenever possible. And give your Berzerker champ a Fist, not a power weapon, because he only has init 5 for one turn, but he could have str 8 for every turn. AND I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Pretty much always.

Just got what you meant. CSM champs aren't a particular model, they're just one that looks different.

I mean't I don't have any in my army.

NEWEST LAYOUT OF ARMY

HQ
Abaddon the Despoiler 275

Elites
6 Chosen CSM 5 w/ Melta 138

Troops
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Plasma Gun w/ Rhino Transport 215
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Flamer w/ Rhino Trasnport Bolter 210
10 x Chaos Space Marines 2 w/ Melta Gun w/ Rhino Trasnport w/ Pintle mounted Havoc Launcher 225
7 Khorne Berserkers 1 Skull Champion w/ PowerFist 208

Heavy Support
Chaos Defiler with Close-Combat weapon replacing Flamer 150
Land Raider with Daemonic Posession w/ dozer blade and pintle mounted havoc launcher 255
2 Obliterator Cult 150

1826