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Here's a stumper:



The set up:

The Dreadnought is targeting the Defkopters with its Flamer. The template extends far enough past the Defkopters to hit some Boyz engaged in a close combat.

1) Do the Boyz in Close Combat take the Flamer damage?

or

2) Does the Dreadnought player have to reposition the template to avoid the close combat?

As a side note, the Ork player threw the Defkopters between the Close Combat and the advancing Dreadnought to keep the Dreadnought from entering the melee. The Defkopters, by the rules, were at least 1" away from both the Dreadnought and the Close Combat.


Thanks!

You have to reposition the template to avoid the close combat and also cover as many models in the deffcopta unit as possible.

So in your example that flamer position is illegal because it is only covering 1 Deffcopta (might be grazing the second, can't really tell) but in any case the rules for templates and Blast markers specifically forbid placement that would affect your own units or a Close Combat, so you would have to reposition the flamer template to not hit the Close Combat

That seems a little harsh, I would rather randomize it. 1-3: Marine, 4-6: Ork.

warpcrafter wrote:That seems a little harsh, I would rather randomize it. 1-3: Marine, 4-6: Ork.

Shame that, but that's how the Rules are and you can either suck it up and play 40k or not play 40k and enjoy Househammer 40k.

Hahaha, touche!

RAW, ftw.

Even if it is dumb, them there is da rulez.

But you are free to house rule it to your heart's content.

If only GWAR! would see the light on the MoF and Astropath ordeal!

Reecius wrote:Hahaha, touche!

RAW, ftw.

Even if it is dumb, them there is da rulez.

But you are free to house rule it to your heart's content.

If only GWAR! would see the light on the MoF and Astropath ordeal!

hey, the rule IS ambiguous, and that's my final answer (I am actually advocating the "Clear it up pre game" stance, I'm just so good at t3h trolling no one has noticed yet ;p)

And it isn't dumb at all tbh.

For the Marines, you are not going to risk frying a Brother under ANY circumstance.
For orks, you aint gonna risk it cause da boss will bash yu in afta!
[Insert justification for Race xyz here]
GOTO 10

I meant in general if the rule seemed dumb, you still had to follow it.

I agree, A space marine of the non-spikey flavor isn't going to fry his brother in arms!

and yet there was complete refusal to accept reasoning behind randomizing the hits scored by a scattered blast over units engaged in close combat, sometime back, in spite of the RaW that explicitly states otherwise...

A blast that scatters over a Close combat only ever hits the models under it, so if it scatters and it only covers orks, it only hits Orks. If it hits only Marines, it hits only marines. If it hits both, it hits both. Simple Really, and will no need for additional, flow breaking "randomising" rolls.

Agreed on that point. However the topic is the Flamer Template. Given the figure provided, you can see that the Dread can only target one Defkopter at a time given its proximity. The player clearly demonstrates an understanding of the rule "without touching any friendly models" and positions the template as shown. The question is, can the Dread even use the weapon given that it just happens to hit a close combat while directly targeting the Defkopter and if yes, do the Orks in the CC take Flamer damage.

No, if you cannot place the flamer template in a legal position you cannot fire it.

In this case actually, there is no way you can claim to not be able to place the template in a legal position (i.e. not hitting the CC), because Walkers can pivot in the shooting phase, and you can place the template at a 45 degree angle from the gun mount.

Excellent!

Thanks all.

Gwar! wrote:No, if you cannot place the flamer template in a legal position you cannot fire it.

In this case actually, there is no way you can claim to not be able to place the template in a legal position (i.e. not hitting the CC), because Walkers can pivot in the shooting phase, and you can place the template at a 45 degree angle from the gun mount.

Not only can they, but they must rotate to face their target. Of course, if the walker is immobilized then this situation becomes more feasible. But then arises the question, since the weapons on a walker have a fixed 45 degree firing arc, how much, if any, of the flamer template may be placed outside of that arc.

or, what if it was the copter(what ever it is called i am not an ork player) it was aiming at is the only one left? so just because it reaches into melee it can't be used? hmm if this is the case then maybe you want to hug CCs from now own to avoid templates...

Garuss Acine wrote:or, what if it was the copter(what ever it is called i am not an ork player) it was aiming at is the only one left? so just because it reaches into melee it can't be used? hmm if this is the case then maybe you want to hug CCs from now own to avoid templates...

You can angle the template however you want, so long as it stays within the fire arc. Since the dreadnought can (Read: Must) rotate, it is a non issue. If you somehow end up immobile and unable to fire the flamer at the enemy without some part ending up over a CC, then you cannot legally place the template, so you cannot fire it.

You put it like this:

Webbe called it. The walker can rotate, and the flamer can be fired at any angle. So, moving his arm, rotating, doing whatever you have to do, you can probably angle it so that the flamer hits the two copters and does not hit the marines. Gwar is dead on. You simply cannot lay the template over a CC. So, if you want to use the flamer you have to figure out how to avoid it. Also, I don't have my rule book here, but I think it says that you must lay the template over as many models as possible or something like that. So, you cannot skim over the squad you are targeting to lay the flame over another squad behind them, unless you have hit the majority of the models in your target.

But lastly, the Orks attempt to block the Dreadnought from assaulting looks like it is going to fail. I believe the rules say you have to go in the shortest possible route to the closest enemy model that you are assaulting... or some such. During assaults, you may pass within 1" of enemy models. The Dreadnought can simply skip around the copters and assault the orks.

Course, once upon a time, fluff talked about the Smurfs firing into hand to hand during the Nid invasion of Macragge. And the rules used to allow you to fire in hth, even if your battle brothers were involved. Me, I'd gladly call artillery in on the remnants of an IG squad locked in hth with a bunch of just about anything. But the rules have changed and so must we.

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