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I was wondering today, speculating, why isn't there some more consistency on codexes, and how does one possibly get a "complete" set of rules for WH40K?

In particular I was wondering why some codices are out of print, why some are in WD, why some were pdfs and why some are discontinued but still legal?

SPACE WOLVES: Rules/Event Legal but out of print? What?
BLOOD ANGELS: Legal, but only in white dwarf?
ARMORED COMPANY: Illegal but had a PDF army?
LATD: Has a codex that was discontinued for, apparently, no reason?
EYE of TERROR: A variety of codices in one book, that could still work, outdated by the OOP but legal Space Wolves codex?
KROOT MERCS: an old codex, WD, annual published, that could be compatible with 5th, just forgotten?
FERAL ORKS: ...outdated by the ORK dex I assume but why? Where's the squigoth?
WORD BEARERS: ...didn't they have a unique any demon list in WD, with the corupted rosarius and dark chaplains etc.

Why isn't there more consistency with how armies are "cannon" or at least some way to get the complete rules? The space wolf codex being OOP and legal while the LATD one is illegal and OOP completely perplexes me? Shouldn't OOP mean no longer legal? Thoughts?

Lost and The Damned were part of The Eye Of Terror Codex. Never had a seperate one.

Word Bearers were in the 3.5 Chaos Codex, up the back amongst the Cult Armies.

Kroot Mercenaries were a White Dwarf list which may have referred to the original Tau Codex for one entry.

Armoured Company were in a White Dwarf.

Feral Orks likewise.

These are what you might call 'Hobby' lists, in that they were unsupported and depended largely on the gamer to convert most of the force to some degree.

If you want to use them in friendly play, just let you opponent know. No need to stress about which version of a Codex to use if things have been updated, just stick with the one it was intended to, or choose to go with the new one.

No army is ever illegal. A Rozzer is not going to come into the shop, smash up your models, take you down the nick and assist you in falling down the stairs for using them.

I feel Augustus' pain. I started 40k right after the Space Marine codex came out in 2004 and was so confused with all of the other codices floating around.

When speaking to the GW Redshirts, they verified that each codex that comes out overrides the previous one, but were speechless when it came to codices such as Catachans or Assassins that were out of print for a long time but the models were still available. I finally figured it out for myself (IG and Daemonhunter codices had Catachan and Assassin rules included). There was so much 40k literature alone that I got as much as I could to get the background fluff.

The Index Astartes volumes were great for background. As far as play, I always made sure my opponents knew what I was using, such as FW stuff like the Hydra and tarantula sentry guns. Fun stuff!

GW needs to just stick with 5th ed for a while and update Every codex.

the reason the SW codex is OOP is because they are finishing up on the new release for them.

and the Eye of Terror book came out after the Space Wolves Codex IIRC, so saying "outdated" is a misnomer. It is largely irrelevant however, because the 13th company is not currently part of the Space Wolves fighting force.

hopefully that will change in September

The general rule is that any codex whose rules or the rules it references are updated becomes invalid for general play.

So in the case of catachans the codex became invalid when the late 3rd ed IG codex came out and gave you new rules to play them.

For assassins the codex became invalid when the IG books came out and gave you new rules for them.

Feral orks were invalid once new ork rules came out.

Armoured Company was never a tournament legal army (on the general consensus that it was more broken than a boxer's nose) but it became even more invalid so when the new IG codex came out and changed the rules for tanks.

LaTD referenced stats, rules, wargear and pts from the old chaos codex marine and daemon entries and ules from the old guard codex. Both of these have been updated so the LaTD is no longer valid.

Ulthwe have since received new rules in the eldar codex so the old craftworld and eye of terror books are invalid.

There are imho only 6 weird ones.

DE are out of print but have received no new rules whatsoever so obviously their rules are fine. It's just their out of print.
BA have a codex as a PDF on the GW website. Not being a printable codex doesn't mean that these rules are any less valid though.

Kroot Mercs technically became invalid when GW updated the kroot rules in the new Tau dex but to be honest they didn't change enough that you couldn't use that old codex just fine if your opponents will let you.

The really weird ones are space wolves, 13th co and lost and the damned

space wolves technically became invalid when the new space marine codex came out for the same reasons lost and the damned did i.e. although space wolves have a lot of their own units they get pts and stats for some of their units from the main marine codex. This is identical to the lost and the damned. However Gw allowed space wolves to use the updated pts and rules but NOT the lost and the damned.

The reason for this is obvious but unsatisfactory. Space wolves are a very popular and prominent army and letting their rules lapse completely would be a big mistake, lost and the damned are a greta idea but not actually that popular so Gw felt it was okay to drop them for now. Also SW only refer to one extra codex and only for vehicles so issues of imbalance are not that likely to occur. In contrast latd refer to 3 different codecii as well as their own and use them for troops and vehicles so all kinds of abuse is likely.

But then where do 13th co facor in? Frankly I can see no reason why they wouldn't still be a legal force but apparently they are no longer considered legal on most tournament circuits.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:But then where do 13th co facor in? Frankly I can see no reason why they wouldn't still be a legal force but apparently they are no longer considered legal on most tournament circuits.

That's because they work with whole codex's, so to allow 13th Company would mean allowing the whole EoT Codex, which is unreasonable.

Not to mention that RaW 13th company could not be played past 2250, which is a silly reason but a possible reason nonetheless.

Augustus wrote:I was wondering today, speculating, why isn't there some more consistency on codexes, and how does one possibly get a "complete" set of rules for WH40K?

In particular I was wondering why some codices are out of print, why some are in WD, why some were pdfs and why some are discontinued but still legal?

SPACE WOLVES: Rules/Event Legal but out of print? What?
BLOOD ANGELS: Legal, but only in white dwarf?
ARMORED COMPANY: Illegal but had a PDF army?
LATD: Has a codex that was discontinued for, apparently, no reason?
EYE of TERROR: A variety of codices in one book, that could still work, outdated by the OOP but legal Space Wolves codex?
KROOT MERCS: an old codex, WD, annual published, that could be compatible with 5th, just forgotten?
FERAL ORKS: ...outdated by the ORK dex I assume but why? Where's the squigoth?
WORD BEARERS: ...didn't they have a unique any demon list in WD, with the corupted rosarius and dark chaplains etc.

Why isn't there more consistency with how armies are "cannon" or at least some way to get the complete rules? The space wolf codex being OOP and legal while the LATD one is illegal and OOP completely perplexes me? Shouldn't OOP mean no longer legal? Thoughts?

You are completely correct in that last statement: The way GW now approaches armies is that when something is out of print (including on their website) then it is no longer "officially" part of the game.

The Space Wolves would certainly seem to be an exception to that rule and it is likely because the new Space Wolf codex will be out in September (apparently), so they aren't going to spend more money making another print run of the codex (at least that's my speculation).


The other thing to look at is what is supported on the GW website. The Space Wolves received a 5th edition FAQ which is what propels them into being "legal" in most tournaments. Blood Angles have a new 5th edition style PDF codex that is available on the GW website. And if you look at the list of 'armies' available for purchase on the GW website you see that Space Wolves and Blood Angels are still represented as a separate entity along with Black Templars and Dark Angels.


As for all the other armies you've mentioned, you have to go back to the fact that when Andy Chambers was running the 40K development they were allowed to go crazy and create army lists when they had no intention of ever making models for that army or considering whether or not they'd have the resources available to continue to update and support said armies when newer versions of the core rules were released.

Obviously after Andy left the company at some point they had to take a hard look at what they had created and they realized that they could not continue to put time and resources into continually updating these fringe rules and they clearly decided that they couldn't and instead focused on the core armies in the game with the pledge that any further armies that receive a codex will forever be supported and remain part of the game.

So yes, this means Armored Companies, Lost and the Damned, Kroot Mercs, Feral Orks, 13th Company, Ulthwe Strike Force, etc, etc, etc are all now "dead" in that they are no longer supported at all by Games Workshop.


But I completely 100% agree that one of GW's greatest weaknesses is that they don't just MAKE IT CLEAR as to what is happening with their games. It must have something to do with being a publicly traded company or just a corporate mindset but I don't understand why they don't hire a community spokesperson to just focus on letting their consumers know exactly what is happening with their company and where everything in their games stands.

yakface wrote:I don't understand why they don't hire a community spokesperson to just focus on letting their consumers know exactly what is happening with their company and where everything in their games stands.

It's because it doesn't make them any money directly, so the accountants cant tell the Shareholders it's a good idea, and since the Shareholders only care about t3h money, the Accountants are the only ones they listen to.

Yes, I am Bitter.

Ya left out Craftworld Eldar on the list.

GW's 'La la la I can't hear you' approach to the status of anything that isn't flavour of the month is as equally unhelpful as the blanket anything is player consent viewpoint. Anything you do that is not explicitly described in the rulebook is player consent as the ranges of possibilities are too wide for such a blanket statement. That GW makes no attempt to promote these semi-oop lists through the many media outlets they have access to is unfortunate.

I advise you to play grey Space Marines and keep your mouth shut.

I think that Yak's got it. If there's a Fifth Edition FAQ on the website, it's a legal army, otherwise it isn't.

dietrich wrote:I think that Yak's got it. If there's a Fifth Edition FAQ on the website, it's a legal army, otherwise it isn't.

Actually, that's wrong. A "legal" army is down to a tournament organiser. A army with a 5th edition FAQ is a "GW Supported Army". Big Difference.