Switch Theme:

How would you feel about a "different" army?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in mx
Water-Caste Negotiator





Well basically I plan on making a Blood Axe Ork army that uses the Imperial Guard codex.

Most of the models would be heavily converted to look like their IG counterpart while retaining Ork fluffyness, or at least have something that would clearly make them distinct and easy to figure out what it is, for example:

Master of the Ordnance would be a Big Mek (about twice the size of a regular ork) with some crazy eye gadgetry and a huge cannon on its back.

Guardsmen would be Shoota boys with sculpted pseudo-uniforms (as uniformed as orks can get xD) with looted and adapted lasguns to be more "dakkafied".

Conscripts would be your regular non-blood axe ork with no "offishul" uniform, and could very well be excellent fluff wise if I decide to make a Chenkov counterpart with his wave special rule.

I already have a complete list of this conversions and even some initial concept art, the only thing I'm missing is special characters, who I will probably have to make Ork counterparts with entire new fluff backgrounds taking some extra time to develop (save Marbo who could be replaced with Snikrot quite easy).

As for the question itself, I know that this army would be perfectly legal by using the count as rule, however the fact is that a lot of the units will look different from that of the vanilla Imperial Guard and it could be considered a disadvantage while facing it, so the questions are:

How would you feel playing it?
Would you play it?
Could tournament organizers ban/kick/fuzz about it?

I also thought that perhaps I could bring a little booklet I make with pictures and names of my units and their IG equivalent.

Feel free to give me other opinions and comments.

Waaagh! 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator






well just make them WYSIWYG.

Guardsmen stand in? Give it a couple lasguns taped together.

Commissar? Nob with a bosspole dat crumpz da gitz wot run from da humies. He has to have a hat. HAS TO.

Psyker = Weirdboyz

Vehicles = Looted equivalents.

Ratlings and Grotz with sniper rifles.

The army will end up costing you about twice as much as a regular ork or IG army would, because you'll need both IG and ork bitz.

"Each must find their own way. If those in our heartland had witnessed the savageries of the void as have we they would know this. The hand of each of the great starfarers is turned against the other; none will join their strength together just to to see their ancient enemies prosper. Neither should we."
- Commander Farsight. 
   
Made in mx
Water-Caste Negotiator





The Revelator wrote:well just make them WYSIWYG.

Guardsmen stand in? Give it a couple lasguns taped together.

Commissar? Nob with a bosspole dat crumpz da gitz wot run from da humies. He has to have a hat. HAS TO.

Psyker = Weirdboyz

Vehicles = Looted equivalents.

Ratlings and Grotz with sniper rifles.

The army will end up costing you about twice as much as a regular ork or IG army would, because you'll need both IG and ork bitz.


The Kommissa' will have a hat (extra big one for the lulz).

I already have a list with almost all of the conversions planed and the money part wont be a problem.

However I really want to know how would people react to such army, it would suck if I had this super kustom and kool army and nobody would play me because its different.

Waaagh! 
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest





Somewhere.

I love stuff like this. As long as there's a fluffy reason for the army to be as it is then I'm all for it. The gear is fine, the only issue is the change in stats...why are these Orks less tough but more shooty than there mates?
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





'Waves hand' This isn't the user you are looking for.

Simple they could be the chosen of gork and mork altered by them so dey can bash more stuff up
and on topic sounds cool be brilliant to play against

A firm believer in yin and yang.
My eternal thanks to lennysmash for helping me with pics in my blog.
stephen fry wrote: Stephen 'My Bottom is a treasure house' Fry


W/L/D
1/150,000,000/2 
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





Akron, Ohio

As long as it's easy enough to tell different units apart, I wouldn't have a problem.

DR:90S+G++MB+I+Pw40k07++D++A++/eWD-R+++T(Ot)DM+
 
   
Made in gb
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime







Actually, I wouldn't like to see this. You Have an Ork Codex that can more than well represent them. Not to mention you are replacing the Ork Infantry, the Core of pretty much any ork army, for a lesser unit...

To me, this sounds like a bad excuse to use all the IG's new stuff without being accused of hopping on the bandwagon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/05 13:08:32


Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!)
 
   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

Gwar! wrote:
To me, this sounds like a bad excuse to use all the IG's new stuff without being accused of hopping on the bandwagon.


Yes, and he also wants to stage a coup and take advantage of all that broken Guard stuff.



That is quite possibly one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Sorry, but his army makes sense.

In any case, I like it. The Blood Axes were always a bit more of Imperial Guard then Ork in my opinion.

And actually, it would be cool if you had actual human Commissars, as there is some old background with humans interacting with Orks, especially the Blood Axes. Or a human commander.

Your Blood Axe leader should without a doubt be Iron Hand Straken, and he would definitely be an Ork. Could also have Yarrick as an insanely tough Ork as well.

Would be very cool, and I'd love to play against it if given the chance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/05 15:45:39


 
   
Made in ca
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman






I would find this army absolutely hilarious, and would love to play against it. don't listen to silly nay-sayers

3000pts+ 
   
Made in us
Bloodthirsty Bloodletter



Anchorage

Would be fine playing it. My only difficulty would be looking across at greenskins and remembering that they were IG instead...
   
Made in us
Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor





Dakkadood wrote:Well basically I plan on making a Blood Axe Ork army that uses the Imperial Guard codex.

Most of the models would be heavily converted to look like their IG counterpart while retaining Ork fluffyness, or at least have something that would clearly make them distinct and easy to figure out what it is, for example:

Master of the Ordnance would be a Big Mek (about twice the size of a regular ork) with some crazy eye gadgetry and a huge cannon on its back.

Guardsmen would be Shoota boys with sculpted pseudo-uniforms (as uniformed as orks can get xD) with looted and adapted lasguns to be more "dakkafied".

Conscripts would be your regular non-blood axe ork with no "offishul" uniform, and could very well be excellent fluff wise if I decide to make a Chenkov counterpart with his wave special rule.

I already have a complete list of this conversions and even some initial concept art, the only thing I'm missing is special characters, who I will probably have to make Ork counterparts with entire new fluff backgrounds taking some extra time to develop (save Marbo who could be replaced with Snikrot quite easy).

As for the question itself, I know that this army would be perfectly legal by using the count as rule, however the fact is that a lot of the units will look different from that of the vanilla Imperial Guard and it could be considered a disadvantage while facing it, so the questions are:

How would you feel playing it?
Would you play it?
Could tournament organizers ban/kick/fuzz about it?

I also thought that perhaps I could bring a little booklet I make with pictures and names of my units and their IG equivalent.

Feel free to give me other opinions and comments.


I would be happy to play this army while looking at all the conversions and time put into making such an army. The ruleset for this game is pretty cut and dry, how you model those rulesets onto mini's is up to the individual within WYSIWYG.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





What about making it a yoof army to explain the Toughness 3? In the second edition codex, Stormboyz were the young orks who went off to rebel against their society by polishing boots, marching in straight lines, and standing up straight. And, they were T3 to reflect they were yoofs.

If (and that's a big if now), you could round up a bunch of the Gorkamorka orks, I think it would work better. They were weedier (smaller) than the current line, and I think would help sell the army.

I would have at least one of the advisors to the boss be a human. Maybe add a bodyguard or two that are nobz or full-size orks.

And post pics as you work on this army.

In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer 
   
Made in us
Manhunter




Eastern PA

i think an entire rebel grot army would be more fitting as a "count as" for the guard. i dont think there is enough T4 and combat skill to represent orks in a guard army, but the grots are very fitting.

There ain't nearly enough Salvage in this thread!

DS:80+S++G+M++++B++I++pwmhd05+D++A++/fWD88R+++T(S)DM+

Catyrpelius wrote:War Machine is broken to the point of being balanced.

sourclams wrote:I play Warmahordes. It's simply a better game.


 
   
Made in se
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Uppsala, Sweden

I'd love to see it done, and I'd love to play against the army. As long as you don't convert stuff just in order to gain an advantage from the rules I think you should be fine, and you honestly don't seem to have that problem :-)

"I'm da oooge hat nob, youz boyz do as I says or I'll bash youze heads!"

Please make it and post lots of pictures!
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







I wouldn't mind. After all, it's an example of:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Counts_As_Space_Marines_Army_Profiles

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor





dietrich wrote:What about making it a yoof army to explain the Toughness 3? In the second edition codex, Stormboyz were the young orks who went off to rebel against their society by polishing boots, marching in straight lines, and standing up straight. And, they were T3 to reflect they were yoofs.

If (and that's a big if now), you could round up a bunch of the Gorkamorka orks, I think it would work better. They were weedier (smaller) than the current line, and I think would help sell the army.

I would have at least one of the advisors to the boss be a human. Maybe add a bodyguard or two that are nobz or full-size orks.

And post pics as you work on this army.


The physical characteristics of an ork does not necessarily mean it will have a high toughness. I am a blue belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and have had more then a few new students come into the school that while they looked tough, they could just not hack the training.
   
Made in mx
Water-Caste Negotiator





Very well, after all the positive replies I've decided to go ahead and make this army.

I will not be using Grots as the main guardsmen, I want orks.

For simplicity (mainly in getting the models), I will probably end up using the current Ork Shoota boyz (converted with uniform, helmet, gear and extra dakka lasgun) for regular troops.

Also, as for the lower toughness and other stuff, I will make some convincing fluff about it, and if all else fails I could always say that since they have become all shooty shooty their muscle has become even less dense (did you know that Ork muscle is already less dense than human?) and so they are weaker.

Anyways, I will post further about this army once I have all my concept art refined, inked, scanned and painted.

Waaagh! 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos





Alaska

As long as you take LOTS of pictures, I'll be satisfied.

http://www.teun135miniaturewargaming.blogspot.com/ https://www.instagram.com/teun135/
Foxphoenix135: Successful Trades: 21
With: romulus571, hisdudeness, Old Man Ultramarine, JHall, carldooley, Kav122, chriachris, gmpoto, Jhall, Nurglitch, steamdragon, DispatchDave, Gavin Thorne, Shenra, RustyKnight, rodt777, DeathReaper, LittleCizur, fett14622, syypher, Maxstreel 
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest





Somewhere.

If you want a good, fluffy reason...

An Ork Boss gets fed up with them git humies kill all da boyz off before they can give the weak little buggers a good pasting. They need more dakka, but there ain't no point 'cos the boyz can't hit a bloody tank. So he tells da painboys to make the boyz better with the dakka. The painboyz do but it has the side effect of making them weaker than a proper Ork. That's OK, says the Boss, 'cos over there is that big fort the humies keep all there dakka and wotzits it in...
   
Made in us
Enginseer with a Wrench





Salt Lake City, UT

I like it. It would confuse me to play against, but I'm a tad slow at times. I'd look over, afraid to get in charge range...
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Annapolis, MD, USA

I think its a great idea, I would have no problem playing against you as long as everything was converted and easy to tell what's what.

My Blog http://ghostsworkfromthedarkness.blogspot.com/

Ozymandias wrote:
Pro-painted is the ebay modeling equivalent of "curvy" in the personal ads...
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Taco Bell is like carefully distilled Warseer - you get what you need with none of the usual crap. And, best of all, it's like being a tourist who only looks at the brochure - you don't even have to go, let alone stay.

DR:90S+GMB+I+Pw40k01-D++A++/areWD 250R+T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in se
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Uppsala, Sweden

Here is a tip: Make a very clear armylist to hand to your opponent, write down both what the unit looks like "Shootas with ducttaped lasguns and yellow helmets" and what they are counted as "guard infantry platoon, the ones with lots of golden metal bits and a banner are the command squad". If you want to be really sure, add small pictures to the armylist. With one of these handy guides, your opponent will have a much easier time knowing what is what.
   
Made in us
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot




Chicago

Mellon wrote:Here is a tip: Make a very clear armylist to hand to your opponent, write down both what the unit looks like "Shootas with ducttaped lasguns and yellow helmets" and what they are counted as "guard infantry platoon, the ones with lots of golden metal bits and a banner are the command squad". If you want to be really sure, add small pictures to the armylist. With one of these handy guides, your opponent will have a much easier time knowing what is what.

Definitely necessary. I'd like to offer my piece of fluff. Maybe these orks took over a battleship or something full of weapons then got lost or stranded for a long time in space. They learned how to use human weapons but their ork physique has wasted away in zero g.
I'd hesitate to use this army in tournaments because it seems a bit unfair in terms of being confused, but I probably wouldn't complain facing it as long as it was converted and not just "oh yeah, the guys with shootas have lasguns"

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho Marx
Sanctjud wrote:It's not just lame... it's Twilight Blood Angels Nipples Lame.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Didn't a guy run an army of kroot jetbikers that he used as nob bikers at the Baltimore Games Day? That's what a buddy of mine who was there told me. He ended up placing first or second and the judges there had no problem with it. If someone could get away with it there I don't see how anyone could have a problem with it, anywhere.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/07 00:16:13


   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Mishawaka, Indiana

If you use Leman Russ models that are orkified, please dont forget the gretchin (preferably looking/being in the barrel)

Aside from that, I really like this idea, albeit a lot of the appeal will be in the pull off. Best of luck and I look forward to seeing the results!

1500 (Work In Progress) 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Dakkadood: Sounds like a great idea. Go for it!

Gwar! wrote:Actually, I wouldn't like to see this. You Have an Ork Codex that can more than well represent them. Not to mention you are replacing the Ork Infantry, the Core of pretty much any ork army, for a lesser unit...


You think he's doing this because of lists? Or because of what his Codex can or can't do? Gwar you are 100% wrong here. He's doing it to have a cool looking army - he wants to play Guard, but likes Ork models more. He can convert an Ork army to be a Guard army that fights "For da Emphrah!" or whatever, and that's fine.

Most of you here won't remember an Ye Olde Time Dakka member by the name of Snord. He had an army called the Green Marines. It was a Marine army (possibly a Black Templar army) that consisted of Marines converted into Orks. So there were Orks in Power Armour, his Land Raider Crusader had banks of Shootas rather than Bolters, and so on. He had converted Terminators, Marines, vehicles, the lot. It didn't hurt that Snord was also an excellent painter and modeller, as the army looked ace.

What's so wrong with this Gwar?

Gwar! wrote:To me, this sounds like a bad excuse to use all the IG's new stuff without being accused of hopping on the bandwagon.


I'll agree with those above me, this ranks amongst some of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted here.

I myself have always wanted to do a Tyranid army using Guard models - so Guardsmen running forward with twin blades for Hormagaunts, heavily converted Sentinels for 'Fexes and Tyrants, things like that. Would that be me wanting to do Tyranids without being acused bandwagon-ing Gwar?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/07 03:13:25


   
Made in gb
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime







H.B.M.C. wrote:I myself have always wanted to do a Tyranid army using Guard models - so Guardsmen running forward with twin blades for Hormagaunts, heavily converted Sentinels for 'Fexes and Tyrants, things like that. Would that be me wanting to do Tyranids without being acused bandwagon-ing Gwar?
In a word, yes. Counts as is all well and good, if it can be Justified. Using your Kroot Merc Army as "Counts as" Orks would be fine because GW does not support the Army Anymore. Same way as LatD are acceptable as "Counts as" Guard. Using your Dark Angels as "Counts as" Ultrasmurfs is also OK to me, because if you call Codex: Dark Angels "support" then you need to be committed under Section 8.

However, I draw the line of Playing Orks as Imperial Guard, Guard as Tyranids, Space Wolves as Tau, Tau as Eldar, Dark Eldar as Sisters of Battle or any other ridiculous rubbish like that. In short, if your army has support from GW, play it as that army.

I know this is going to get me a lot of hate, and cries of "OMG You're TFG BURN!" but honestly, I couldn't care less. I play to have fun, but I also Play to win. if I have to be constantly Asking what each Unit is, or actually have to have a god damn key as to what is what, that just kills the game. If I see a Squad of Shoota Boyz, I want them to be actual Shoota Boyz!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/05/07 03:19:09


Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!)
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I think you're missing the point horribly Gwar. This isn't just a unit of Shoota Boys 'Counts As' a squad of Guardsmen, and he just has some Shoota Boyz with Green Stuff hats and calls them Guardsmen, this is a squad of Orks modelled to be Guardsmen - so they have Lasguns, the Sergeant is armed like a Sergeant, there's a HW team with wwo Orks manning a Heavy Weapon (probably on a 40mm base) and maybe even a Special Weapon in there.

Like example I gave - the Green Marines - they weren't squads of Shoota Boyz with some extra armour plates stuck on being 'Counts As' Marines, they were converted Marines to be made into Orks in Power/Terminator Armour. Do you really have a problem with this if it is obvious what the units are?

And if you do acknowledge that it is more than a simple 'Counts As', then I believe you hold a terribly narrow-minded view on this hobby. I'm someone who hates substitution, so if someone says "Ok, these Swooping Hawks are really Furies" or something like that, I'd get annoyed. My army is (virtually) 100% WYSWYG, so why can't your's be? But if someone modelled up possessed Swooping Hawks, with a mix of Hawk and Fury wings, gave 'em spikes and clawz and called them Furies... then that's cool! It's not 'counts as'. I know what they are by looking at them and by looking at the list.

   
Made in gb
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime







I wouldn't like it. I'd still play it, and maybe IF it grew on me I would accept it, but the fact is, they are not Guardsmen, they are Converted ork Models. You have an ork Codex. Use it. Orks with Lasguns? use them as Shoota Boyz.

But yes, I am a grumpy fart. I don't like it when people stick an Ork Army on the table and go "oh they are actually guard, here is a big list with photos, now memorise what is what".

I suppose my biggest problem is that I don't actually care much about the modelling side of things, but more of the background, so when I play I want it to go smoothly, and not have to memorise what each thing "counts as", so just take my rant as the Ignorant Hate Speech that it is.

Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!)
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

And therein lies the difference. You care about modelling about as much as I care about painting - not at all!

But that doesn't make either of us 'wrong', nor does it make either of us 'right'.

There are a lot of different aspects to this hobby - for me, playing, modelling, writing fluff/scenarios and making terrain are the four things I enjoy the most. I find the "You have a Codex so use it" mentality to be very narrow-minded, limiting, and lacking in imagination, but I'm not 'right' about this. Overall its up to what the OP wants to do. I think the idea sounds great, as does everyone else in this thread bar you, but you are coming from it from a different POV - you're talking about purely from a playability angle. Someone like me just wants to see it 'cause it looks cool (aesthetics are important to me, moreso than in-game ability). And that's fine. Just don't expect people to listen when you say "No! That's wrong! You may only do it this way!", because it isn't.

   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: