Individuals excluded from the UK

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**Frazzled**

interesting list
http://press.homeoffice.gov.uk/press-releases/hate-promoters-banned-UK-named
Top 20

Home Office name hate promoters excluded from the UK
5 May 2009

Individuals banned from the UK for stirring-up hatred have been named and shamed for the first time, the Home Secretary announced today.

The list covers people excluded from the United Kingdom for fostering extremism or hatred between October 2008 and March 2009.

It follows the Home Secretary’s introduction of new measures against such individuals last year, including creating a presumption in favour of exclusion in respect of all those who have engaged in spreading hate.

The Home Secretary Jacqui Smith also announced today that the government is now able to ban European nationals and their family members if they constitute a threat to public policy or public security.

In the period from 28 October 2008 to 31 March 2009 the Home Secretary excluded a total of 22 individuals from coming to the United Kingdom. It is not considered to be in the public interest to disclose the names of six of these individuals. The remaining 16 individuals are:

Abdullah Qadri Al Ahdal
Preacher. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs and fostering hatred which might lead to inter-community violence.

Yunis Al Astal
Preacher. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs and to provoke others to terrorist acts.

Stephen Donald Black
Set up Stormfront, a racist website. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by promoting serious criminal activity and fostering hatred, which might lead to inter-community violence in the United Kingdom.

Wadgy Abd El Hamied Mohamed Ghoneim
A prolific speaker and writer. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to foment, justify or glory terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs and to provoke others to commit terrorist acts.

Eric Gliebe
Has made web-radio broadcasts in which he vilifies certain ethnic groups and encourages the download and distribution of provocative racist leaflets and posters. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by justifying terrorist violence, provoking others to commit serious crime and fostering racial hatred.

Mike Guzovsky
Leader of a violent group and actively involved with military training camps. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs and to provoke others to terrorist acts.

Safwat Hijazi
Television preacher. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by glorifying terrorist violence.

Nasr Javed
Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs.

Abdul Ali Musa
Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by fomenting and glorifying terrorist violence in furtherance of his particular beliefs and seeking to provoke others to terrorist acts.

Fred Waldron Phelps Snr and Shirley Phelps-Roper
Pastor and leading spokesperson of Westboro Baptist Church. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by fostering hatred which might lead to inter-community violence in the United Kingdom.

Samir Al Quntar
Spent three decades in prison for killing four soldiers and a four-year-old girl. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs and to provoke others to terrorist acts.

Artur Ryno and Pavel Skachevsky
Leaders of a violent gang that beat migrants and posted films of their attacks on the internet. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by fomenting serious criminal activity and seeking to provoke others to serious criminal acts.

Amir Siddique
Preacher. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by fomenting terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs.

Michael Alan Weiner (also known as Michael Savage)
Controversial daily radio host. Considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to provoke others to serious criminal acts and fostering hatred which might lead to inter-community violence.

The tougher exclusions policy follows the Prime Minister’s commitment in the National Security Strategy to take 'stronger action against those we suspect of stirring up tensions' and the Home Secretary’s decision to introduce a presumption in favour of exclusion for extremists promoting hatred or violence.

Under the new policy we are preventing more promoters of hate from coming to the UK than ever before, with more than five being excluded a month as opposed to two a month under the previous policy.

Statement from the Home Secretary
Jacqui Smith said, 'Coming to the UK is a privilege and I refuse to extend that privilege to individuals who abuse our standards and values to undermine our way of life. Therefore, I will not hesitate to name and shame those who foster extremist views as I want them to know that they are not welcome here.

'The government opposes extremism in all its forms and I am determined to stop those who want to spread extremism, hatred and violent messages in our communities from coming to our country. This is the driving force behind tighter rules on exclusions for unacceptable behaviour.'

**dietrich**

I'm surprised the liberals aren't up in arms about the list be racially biased against muslims.

**Bongeh**

it's not racially biased, its a list formed of people who's known activitys make them a threat to the country. unfortunatly, the muslim extremists, happen to be muslim.

If after WW2, the jews had bombed german cafes and shopping centres im sure it would be the same, except jews would be profiled. Sadly, the few spoil reputations for the masses, much like UK football hooligans make the rest of europe hate UK tourists, even though the majority of us aren't drunk, slogan chanting thugs.

**dietrich**

Bongeh wrote:it's not racially biased, its a list formed of people who's known activitys make them a threat to the country. unfortunatly, the muslim extremists, happen to be muslim.

I'm not saying it is racially biased, I don't think it is. But, I'm surprised the liberals aren't screaming about it being racially biased.

**Frazzled**

From Barlio in same topic (closing that thread)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/16-banned-from-britain-named-and-shamed-1679127.html

This feels wrong to me. He is strongly opposed to illegal immigration and I believed he termed the phrase "Gay Mafia", but is this enough to put him in the same class as the "Rev" Phelps and HAMAS leaders? Come on, regardless of what one may think of him I believe he is a "shock jock" at worst and not a terrorist.

**Kilkrazy**

dietrich wrote:
Bongeh wrote:it's not racially biased, its a list formed of people who's known activitys make them a threat to the country. unfortunatly, the muslim extremists, happen to be muslim.

I'm not saying it is racially biased, I don't think it is. But, I'm surprised the liberals aren't screaming about it being racially biased.

Perhaps the liberals recognise that it isn't racially biased.

I'm not sure I agree with banning people just because they are nasty, shouty demagogues. People used to get banned on grounds of national security, not just because the government disagreed with their ideas.

IMO you have to let the stupid, nasty ideas be aired so that they can be opposed by good ideas. Like that biker gang in the US who fly flags at funerals of servicemen -- there was a good video of it on YouTube.

**Frazzled**

Wait whats wrong with flying flags at the funerals of servicemen? I know there is one group of vets that bike around and attend services as a way of paying respect-strictly on invite though.

**barlio**

Mabye Kilkrazy is thinking of the Phelps family and their ilk? People who prostest or demonstrate at funerals.

The Phelps are awful people, but "sigh" they still have the right to say whatever they want. Even if it makes Khorne followers uncomfortable.

**Frazzled**

But not at funerals (thats a whole different topic)

**barlio**

I agree. If someone is grieving for their loved ones the last thing they want to deal with is somebody holding a sign up saying that their son/daughter is in hell.

I think if there is a military funeral (or any funeral) and someone is protesting it then the Honor Guard may be given ammo and be allowed to fire at the protesters (instead of in the air).

**Kilkrazy**

I'm thinking of some bunch of bikers and they go to a funeral which is being boycotted by homophobes or something, and the bikers fly American flags and flank the funeral procession so as to avoid the mourners' eyes being offended by the homophobic posters. In other words the bikers are the good guys.

**Frazzled**

I've seen that as well. The bikers are the good guys in that instance.

**smiling Assassin**

Hey look, Westboro Baptist church. They protested at a Gay Youth Centre not too far from mine. A friend of mine who was gay got heckled like crazy going in and out.

Good riddance.

sA

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

It's not biased at all.

Read in the Paper one of the people banned is Jewish. Ergo, hardly biased!

There are several other names, around 104 in total including these, which are being kept schtum. A handful are also being kept secret out of national security interests.

I applaud the naming and shaming of this, and quite intend to look at the Westboro site before long, and give myself a damned good giggle!

**Frazzled**

Due to my rabid antihaggisism, I'd thought I'd be at least in the top 100. Frazzled sad. :(

**reds8n**

Kilkrazy wrote:I'm thinking of some bunch of bikers and they go to a funeral which is being boycotted by homophobes or something, and the bikers fly American flags and flank the funeral procession so as to avoid the mourners' eyes being offended by the homophobic posters. In other words the bikers are the good guys.

Yeah, I posted it a while back. It's here if people are interested.

I think Mr. savage is perhaps a bit more than a shock jock and has a long history of saying some pretty fething stupid things

Now, the illness du jour is autism. You know what autism is? I'll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is. What do you mean they scream and they're silent? They don't have a father around to tell them, "Don't act like a moron. You'll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a putz. Straighten up. Act like a man. Don't sit there crying and screaming, idiot

hmmm..

Savage intimated in a broadcast on Disney-owned KSFO-FM, that the possibility of forcible rape was a reason why female high school students might find it exciting to feed homeless people in San Francisco. On his September 21, 1999 broadcast, while voicing his contempt for San Francisco's homeless and the efforts to help them, Savage, a long time Bay Area radio personality, said that female students who come from a Marin County private school to feed and provide services to the homeless "can go in and get raped by them because they seem to like the excitement of it..."[

WTF ?

..but saying stupid things, or indeed even some of the blatantly homophobic and hateful comments he has made isn't sufficient reason to ban him from entering the country.

I can't see what benefit this is supposed to provide.

**LuciusAR**

Hmmm, Im in 2 minds about this.

On the whole I believe the best way to deal with any hatemonger is give them every opportunity to air their repugnant views. This way as many people as possible can see what utter tits they are. It also mean they can be utterly crushed in open counter arguments by their intellectual and moral superiors. If a few nutters are taken in by their tripe, so be it.

There is a difference though between allowing them the freedom to speak (a fundamental right) and providing them with a platform to do so. So on I'm not sure yet where I stand on this.

I'm not convinced about the list being kept secret though.

**George Spiggott**

dietrich wrote:I'm not saying it is racially biased, I don't think it is. But, I'm surprised the liberals aren't screaming about it being racially biased.

Damn them, they've tricked you again haven't they, those damn tricky liberals. What kind of world do we live in where the word liberal is used as a derogatory term?

lib•er•al [ líbbərəl, líbbrəl ]

adjective
Definition:

1. Broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behaviour in others.

2. Progressive politically or socially: favouring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy, distribute wealth more evenly, and protect the personal freedom of the individual.

I think you need a new word, or a new outlook on life, or both.

There'd be a justified outcry if anyone on this list didn't deserve to be. The workings of goverment should be transparent it shouldn't be left to motivated individuals trying to pry this information from civil servants using freedom of information laws and such (not that the FoI act deals well with situations like this). It is right that this information is available to the British public. If the information released is false then the subject can always sue. /can of worms

**generalgrog**

Not that I approve of Michael Savage, but barring him from entering the UK is rediculous. Why not add Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill Maher, or Al Franken to the list.

Sheesh

GG

**Typeline**

generalgrog wrote:Not that I approve of Michael Savage, but barring him from entering the UK is rediculous. Why not add Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill Maher, or Al Franken to the list.

Sheesh

GG

I think they probably banned Michael Savage because his radio program is just brutally unentertaining. But then again, which one of those guy's radio shows isn't exactly the same then?

Me hating political talk radio now a days aside, whatever happened to governments killing people they didn't like? Seriously, they also kept their mouths shut about what they didn't like about them, just killed them. No need to justify anything. Maybe they are asking for a little vigilantism.

**warpcrafter**

Too bad Fred Phelps can't be banned from EARTH!!!

**sexiest_hero**

I'm in agreement with this. There is a big difference, than saying something, and inciting people to do something. IMHO for to long some of these guys have hid behind free speech to get others to launch attacks or actions on others.

**Black Blow Fly**

so you can't ride a bike in the uk anymore ??? WTF !!! The times they are a changing .

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Though this does make me wonder if we can now press to have Peter Hitchens banned from the UK. He hates everyone unless said person is himself, in which case he will demand that person be crowned King of everything with a Crown of ill formed, arrogant opinion.

I mean, every time he mentioned Tony Blair in his column (which was every single one) he used the name 'Anthony' Blair. How bloody conceited is that? Joking apart, thats the sort of behaviour liable to get you beaten up, knacked, hoofed and quite possibly severely brayed if carried out in the Pub. And the knob end has a weekly column in the Nazi on Sunday. Sorry, Mail on Sunday.

**Ratbarf**

On the whole I believe the best way to deal with any hatemonger is give them every opportunity to air their repugnant views. This way as many people as possible can see what utter tits they are. It also mean they can be utterly crushed in open counter arguments by their intellectual and moral superiors. If a few nutters are taken in by their tripe, so be it.

Go look up a little kown man called Martin Luther and see what happened there.

As for this, its not simply enough to shame them. Public embarrasment has a tendancy to spread their message to a wider base. They should kick them out/deny citizenship status to some depending on the actoins they committed.

We should also have this in Canada, it would expose some of our more unsavory residents. For example, the Imam in BC who intoned that all Israeli citizens above the age of 18 are fair game for murder... That kind of thing is different from some guy on the street giving pamphlets. This guy is a (not sure but I think they respect him) respected religous leader. He is preaching this from an important position of influence, and no one really gives a damn.

**Black Blow Fly**

I love Isreal dearly. It's just like good old USA in so many ways but they can be humble. You have a situation where one of the greatest countries the world has ever known is lielterally surrounded on all sides by haters of their most oppulent life style and utter freedom. We need to protect that valiantly 100%.

G

**Ratbarf**

I too love Israel, yet it seems some people side on the Palestinian as they are good at making themselves look totally harmless...

PS: @ Mods, if thats a little to extreme please remove with due diligence.

**Gwar!**

Some breaking news:

US 'hate list' DJ to sue Britain

A US radio talk show host say he will sue the British government for defamation after being placed on a list of people banned from entering the UK.

Conservative political commentator Michael Savage, real name Michael Alan Weiner, is one of 22 people barred for fostering extremism or hate.

He has described the Islamic holy book the Koran as "a book of hate" and questioned the existence of autism.

Mr Weiner said he opposed violence and objected to being linked to murderers.

He told his radio audience that he was intending to sue British Home Secretary Jackie Smith, who he described as the "lunatic ... Home Secretary of England".

"To link me up with skin heads who are killing people in Russia, to put me in league with Hamas murderers who kill people on buses is defamation," he said.

In an article posted on his website, he said had did not advocate violence but "traditional values".

He wrote: "What does that say about the government of England? It says more about them than it says about me."

Public list

Mr Weiner has caused offence in the US with his views on immigration, Islam and rape.

He also angered the parents of children with autism by saying most cases were "a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out".

He was once fired from cable news channel MSNBC for calling a gay caller to his show a sodomite who should "get Aids and die," but later said he thought it had been a crank call.

The UK has been able to ban people who promote hatred, terrorist violence or serious criminal activity since 2005, but the list was only made public for the first time this week.

Hamas MP Yunis Al-Astal and Jewish extremist Mike Guzovsky are among the 16 named people named by the Home Office as being excluded in the five months to March.

Also excluded are two leaders of a violent Russian skinhead gang, the ex-Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard Stephen 'Don' Black and neo-Nazi Erich Gliebe.

The remaining six have not been named, as doing so would not be in the public interest, the government said.

Only in the US would you actually Sue another country

**sexiest_hero**

Why do You love a country, does it love you back? Israel humble?

You have a situation where one of the greatest countries the world has ever known is lielterally surrounded on all sides by haters of their most oppulent life style and utter freedom. We need to protect that valiantly 100%.

A country that didn't exist till a few decades ago that was taken from somebody elses land and given far superior weapons to defend it. Wait nevermind that sounds exactly like the good ole U.S.A.

In fact you could call the Gaza strip a big ole reservation.

As for that picture. How many new bombers were recruited after the useless assault into Gaza that ended up just bulldozing houses and killing hundreds of innocents.

Back on topic,These guy's biggest crime is distorting the truth, out-right lies, and inciting violence and discrimination aginst others. On the way home from work, a shock jock said "All mexicans bring into this country are women with VD and Mustaches. That has no other point to spread hate to an easy target. Freedom to spread hate is another form of opression. No matter if it's the Jim Crow movement in the old American south, or the Jews of old Europe, we've seen time and time again what happens if hate talk is left unchecked. Kudos to the UK.If only the USA had such Testes.

**Frazzled**

generalgrog wrote:Not that I approve of Michael Savage, but barring him from entering the UK is rediculous. Why not add Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill Maher, or Al Franken to the list.

Sheesh

GG

Where there goes my devious plan to put them in a boat for England, and then rvoke their passports. Thanks groggie for being a buzzkill