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before I ask my one allotted question of the day I would like to preface the query with an explanation of how I interpret rules. I am an advocate of RAW but there are times when it just breaks down and does not work. I like to play the rules such that my opponents know I try to be fair and don't look for any unintended advantages. If the RAW interpretation is iron clad I will stick with it though. I like to ask questions in this forum due to high quality feedback. I think that a lot of top gamers come here seeking advice and that is my personal stamp of approval.

So here is my question... If I happened to miss something please forgive me. The rules for grav chutes states that you can always disembark but if the skimmer tank has moved flat out the entire squad must take a dangerous test. The rules also state if any member of the squad cannot disembark then the whole squad counts as destroyed. So If even a single model fails it's dangerous terrain test does the entire squad count as destroyed?

Also one other query... Can Valks and Vendettas tank shock?

Thanks !

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:before I ask my one allotted question of the day I would like to preface the query with an explanation of how I interpret rules. I am an advocate of RAW but there are times when it just breaks down and does not work. I like to play the rules such that my opponents know I try to be fair and don't look for any unintended advantages. If the RAW interpretation is iron clad I will stick with it though. I like to ask questions in this forum due to high quality feedback. I think that a lot of top gamers come here seeking advice and that is my personal stamp of approval.

Blah Blah Blah we all know you are full of it

Green Blow Fly wrote:So here is my question... If I happened to miss something please forgive me. The rules for grav chutes states that you can always disembark but if the skimmer tank has moved flat out the entire squad must take a dangerous test. The rules also state if any member of the squad cannot disembark then the whole squad counts as destroyed. So If even a single model fails it's dangerous terrain test does the entire squad count as destroyed?

No, the part on not being able to deploy is if they scatter onto something that causes a Deepstrike Mishap. If you scatter and land fine, you THEN take a Dangerous Terrain Test, but they have already disembarked.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Also one other query... Can Valks and Vendettas tank shock?

Is the Valkyrie a Tank? No, so be quiet

First question: I would say that the two qualifiers are mutually exclusive. I do not have a codex, however, and can only base that opinion on the information you provided.
Reasoning: The dangerous terrain test appears to be part of disembarking. If the model could not disembark, it would not be making the test, and thus would cause the entire squad to be destroyed.

Second: Again, I do not have the codex, so I ask a question in return - What are the two vehicles classified as?

KaloranSLC wrote:First question: I would say that the two qualifiers are mutually exclusive. I do not have a codex, however, and can only base that opinion on the information you provided.
Reasoning: The dangerous terrain test appears to be part of disembarking. If the model could not disembark, it would not be making the test, and thus would cause the entire squad to be destroyed.

Thats not how it works. What happens is, you "Deep Strike" along its flight path. If you hit, you're fine. If you Scatter and land fine, you then take a Dangerous Terrain test for each model. If you Deep Strike Mishap then you auto destroy rather than rolling on the table.

KaloranSLC wrote:Second: Again, I do not have the codex, so I ask a question in return - What are the two vehicles classified as?

Fast, Skimmer

My natural inclination is that if a model fails it's DT test then the entire squad counts as destroyed. Grav chute can be very powerful for grabbing or contesting objectives late in the game so I see this interpretation as a balance but also very strict. That is why I prefaced my query with the blah blah blah... I want other posters to know where I stand in general when it comes to Interpretating the rules. Personally I am planning to use grav chutes and want to hash this all out in advance. That's how I roll.

G

Gwar! wrote:

KaloranSLC wrote:First question: I would say that the two qualifiers are mutually exclusive. I do not have a codex, however, and can only base that opinion on the information you provided.
Reasoning: The dangerous terrain test appears to be part of disembarking. If the model could not disembark, it would not be making the test, and thus would cause the entire squad to be destroyed.

Thats not how it works. What happens is, you "Deep Strike" along its flight path. If you hit, you're fine. If you Scatter and land fine, you then take a Dangerous Terrain test for each model. If you Deep Strike Mishap then you auto destroy rather than rolling on the table.

Ah ha. Good to know in case I find myself facing guard.

Gwar! wrote:

KaloranSLC wrote:Second: Again, I do not have the codex, so I ask a question in return - What are the two vehicles classified as?

Fast, Skimmer

And you gave the answer above. Huzzah.

Green Blow Fly wrote:My natural inclination is that if a model fails it's DT test then the entire squad counts as destroyed. Grav chute can be very powerful for grabbing or contesting objectives late in the game so I see this interpretation as a balance but also very strict. That is why I prefaced my query with the blah blah blah... I want other posters to know where I stand in general when it comes to Interpretating the rules. Personally I am planning to use grav chutes and want to hash this all out in advance. That's how I roll.

G

That's how I roll too. But No, the wording is very specific.

Plus, think of it like this: How can the model take a Dangerous terrain test if it hasn't disembarked?

Not to mention it makes a specific mention of the Deep Strike Mishap result, yet another point that suggests it only happens if they Deep Strike Mishap.

those are excellent points Gwar ! . Thank you for the feedback. I value your opinion. Now I will wait to see what others have to say. The basis for my current interpretation is that if a model fails it's DT test then it (the guardsman) was unable to successfully deploy and the entire squad counts as destroyed. As I have said this just sounds too darn restrictive though... If your squad is composed of six or more models then the basic statistics tell us at least one will fail the DT test so why even bother. This is where going with a RAI interpretation can help to shed some useful insight how the rule should actually be interpreted. I don't mean to come across as a chod sitting on the fence looking to see which way the wind blows by any means, I just want to get this fully ironed out and over with before I start playing the new army.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:those are excellent points Gwar ! . Thank you for the feedback. I value your opinion. Now I will wait to see what others have to say. The basis for my current interpretation is that if a model fails it's DT test then it (the guardsman) was unable to successfully deploy and the entire squad counts as destroyed. As I have said this just sounds too darn restrictive though... If your squad is composed of six or more models then the basic statistics tell us at least one will fail the DT test so why even bother. This is where going with a RAI interpretation can help to shed some useful insight how the rule should actually be interpreted. I don't mean to come across as a chod sitting on the fence looking to see which way the wind blows by any means, I just want to get this fully ironed out and over with before I start playing the new army.

G

Well lucky for you both RaI and RaW support the "Don't be Stupid GBF you are wrong" Camp. And just to state again the reasons why, the only way for a model to even be forced to take a dangerous terrain test is if they deploy successfully (albeit with a scatter). If they scatter onto something that would cause a Deep Strike Mishap, they are instead removed rather than rolling on the Deep Strike Mishap Table so will never have to take Dangerous terrain tests anyway.

On An Unrelated note, I'm glad GW caught that one. Wouldn't it be funny for a Squad of Conscripts to Jump out a Valkyrie, Deep Strike Mishap and roll a Delayed or Misplaced Result?

I am not stupid Gwar ! . I am prepping for the inevitable and using the worst case analysis. I would think someone like yourself could see the merit behind this philosophy. Forewarned is forearmed... At least in my neck of the woods so to speak.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:I am not stupid Gwar ! . I am prepping for the inevitable and using the worst case analysis. I would think someone like yourself could see the merit behind this philosophy. Forewarned is forearmed... At least in my neck of the woods so to speak.

G

No, no I appreciate it. Best to work out all the wrong "readings" and get them out the way asap I suppose.

It saves a whole heck of a lot of time and leads to a lot less headaches along the way.

G

Locally they just call people who think before a game a tool. They just can not seem to understand outside of there group of 5 there are people who ask others.