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Well, Orks and double lash CSM are considered to be tier 1.
How about the new IG?
They have many new tanks, weapons, and special rules.

It's been out officially for a week. Give it some more time.

The new Space Wolves codex is tier 1. But nothing compares to the new Dark Eldar codex.

Only if you spam Ogryns.

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:The new Space Wolves codex is tier 1. But nothing compares to the new Dark Eldar codex.

These are guesses.

The book has a lot of different builds, and I think that some of them are going to be very competitive against a lot of the big builds right now, but not necessarily by being "unbeatable" but just having very good, very specific spoilers for other "big" units. EG: psyker battle squad vs. nob bikers.

Overall, I think it's a well-costed book that has some good stuff in it. It will take time to see if any of the "top" generals pick it up and use it.

It is very iffy.

If you take them to a tourney and take mystics then they have a chance.

But otherwise this codex is the same as the marines. Lots of toys that get the fanbois quivering in ecstasy but in the end they are still their basic statline and durability at their core.

Sternguard amirite?

wuestenfux wrote:

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:The new Space Wolves codex is tier 1. But nothing compares to the new Dark Eldar codex.

These are guesses.

Why would I have to guess something that is completely obvious?

Its really too soon to say will have to wait till the next GTs and see. New IG has many toys and is very fun though. Is that not what counts.

Yeah, despite what people think, I've been having great success with these guys. Pair them with Yarrick and you have a nice beatstick unit. People laugh when they see me field them, but soon learn that they are a hard nut to crack. Being able to take essentially 7 actions (three shooting, and 4 CC attacks) a turn makes them worth it IMHO.

Capt K

Deadshane1 wrote:Only if you spam Ogryns.

Avariel wrote:New IG has many toys and is very fun though. Is that not what counts.

Of course not. Warhams is serious business.

Well, I imagine that three Leman Russ battle tanks with three plasma cannons, executioner pattern, each is very scary as are their weapons that negate cover saves.

It takes about three months for the meta list that everyone copies to come out after the initial release.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:It takes about three months for the meta list that everyone copies to come out after the initial release.

Yeah.
But that's enough say for the German GT taking place midst of July.

Guard, like Chaos demons, get better as you increase the points.

Eldar's sweet spot is 1500.

Space marines are tier 2 with builds that can win with luck & oppenent selection

Orks are pretty good at 1750 but will now need to mechanize for full potential against guard.

Chaos Space marines don't get much better after 1750 compared to guard or Demons.

Guard have the ability to bring a crazy amount of firepower but can run out of points & slots. I fear guard much more at 2000, then at 1750.

Guard have the ability to bring a crazy amount of firepower but can run out of points & slots. I fear guard much more at 2000, then at 1750.

One basic question is whether IG can hold off an assault-based enemy at arm's length.
I guess that strong SAFH builts can.

asugradinwa wrote:Guard, like Chaos demons, get better as you increase the points.

Eldar's sweet spot is 1500.

Space marines are tier 2 with builds that can win with luck & oppenent selection

Orks are pretty good at 1750 but will now need to mechanize for full potential against guard.

Chaos Space marines don't get much better after 1750 compared to guard or Demons.

Guard have the ability to bring a crazy amount of firepower but can run out of points & slots. I fear guard much more at 2000, then at 1750.

Hits the nail on the head on all points.

IG is going to really change what lists are considered to be top tier because mechanized guard, even at 1750, will dominate Nob Bikers, Lash, Daemons, and any foot-slogging list without much effort.

However, how many fearless assault based armies are out there that don't need to outflank or deepstrike?

The biggest problem with guard is trying to jam everything in for the points.

Orks are gonna have to mount up in them battle wagons of theirs to work. I feel guard are going to have issues dealing with multiple AV 14 tanks rushing at them, especially 3-4 with a KFF, unless they take vanq's.

Marines are going to have to bring lascannons again. I see redeemers and crusaders getting changed over to standard LR's for the transport popping lascannons. Some fast moving MM's to hunt down russ's and lascannons to pop chims and marines might not be in such a terrible place as they still have the tools against other lists.

Lash is dead as far as i'm concerned, especially if orks get mechanized.

Mech guard are going to be a force to worry about. But like everything else lists will adapt and people will learn to counter it.

I think there is little question that Guard has the tools to be Tier 1, but how well we are able to mix and match with the very high cost of IG's toys will determine how effective they are long term.

The one thing IG lacks is that single ultra hard unit that strikes fear into the hearts of opponents. The Nob Biker, Seer Council, TH/SS Assault Terminators, Dual Lash, Fateweaver+ BloodCrushers style units.

IG has some spectacularly powerful Glass Cannons, but they are all costly and badly vulnerable to either shooting or assault or both.

I know I will be putting my chips ( and cash ) behind guard for the next year but that is more because I am in deep Man - Love with the Valkyrie, than because I am convinced they will be at the top competitively.