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I'm plotting a daemon list at the moment, and it seems pretty solid. It focuses around 2 units of Bloodcrushers, a large unit of bloodletters,another of plague bearers, and then a daemon prince. I also plan on taking some flamers probably. I want to include 2 units of Horrors in there too, but I'm a bit worried. They look awfully flimsy, and really, they aren't all that shooty for their points and weaknesses.

Would you recognise min sized units? Medium? Large? Lots of units, only one, or none?
What's the general thought?
I was leaning towards two units of seven with the tank hunting gift on both.

Well, as per usual, mileage may vary. I use them in my lists. I run units of 10, and if I ever give them any add-ons its usually the icon. If I have 10 points to spare (which usually doesn't happen), I'll throw on the bolt. S8 AP1 is nice, and it has a good range for a unit that deepstrikes. But BS3 means half of your shots will miss, then you still have to beat the armor. Unless your getting back shots on most vehicles, it's basically a very slim chance to do anything to the vehicle. But it does give you something to hit a termie with that they can't ignore as easily. What do you want for 10 points.

Mind you, I don't use bloodcrushers, daemon princes, or bloodthirsters. I run a tzeentch list with 2-3 units of bloodletters (depending on points) as CC auxiliaries. It keeps the CC guys nervous about getting close to the units shooting them up.

Now, differences in what your working on from my experience with them taken into account... I like them. A lot. 10 of them give you 30 S4 AP4 shots, their assault so you can move and shoot, and have a solid medium range. The 4+ invulnerable save is also pretty awesome. Bounce shots from plasma cannons, melta guns, ordnance blasts. Drop 30 shots at anything and your opponent sits up and takes notice. 2 groups of them and you've definitely attracted attention. They're going to want to quiet that down a bit. And that means not shooting at your other stuff. And if they do shoot the other units, hey, another 30 shots..

Well, here's the proposed list:

Wave 1: (3+)
Herald of Khorne on Jugger with Unholy might
4 Bloodcrushers with Icon
Role: Smashy combat nastyness. Get stuck in at the teeth of the enemy guns, these guys are tough enough to stick around and hopefully bring down other units accurately with the icon in later turns.

3 Flamers of Tzeentch
Role: Drop in close and first strike. Whether to suppress vehicles or kill troops.

15 Plaguebearers with Icon:
Role: Drop onto a midfield objective and act as an anchor to bring in more stuff. Stick around, holding said objective. In kill points missions, drop behind the enemy to bring in killy stuff at the right place.

7 Horrors with Bolt
Role: Drop onto backfield or midfield objectives, and first strike. Hopefully hold on til later turns if possible.

Wave 2: (1 or 2)
Daemon Prince with Unholy Might, Mark of Nurgle and Iron Hide
Role: Drop down close and weather enemy fire, then get stuck into either supporting the bloodcrushers or tank killing.

4 Bloodcrushers with Icon
Role: As first unit

7 Horrors with Bolt
Role: As first unit

15 Bloodletters with Icon
Role: Drop onto a forward objective and get stuck in, bringing nasty support in around the icon if they survive.


I think the points are about right there, for 1500. As you can see the Horrors are the flimsiest Troops choices. I think perhaps putting them in a unit of ten might work, and using the extra points I would probably either beef up my 'letters or Flamers.
Hmm.
I like having equal numbers of units in both waves though.

My friend who plays Nids had a bad run-in with Horrors. The Changeling can really funk up your day, apparently.

Changeling is awesome against guard. Remember its anyone who fires at anything within the Changelings LOS has to pass a leadership test.

I like firing my enemies meltaguns at half range into demolishers

Also I thought bolt was mediocre at best for 10 points but then I realized it is 24". I had the melta statline stuck in my head I guess.

Horrors with Bolt are good to bring against IG.

Changeling is also good against line squads and foot based IG, but not as worthwhile aginst mechanized style lists where everything should be mounted, thus testing on LD10.

Mech lists that try to fire from inside vehicles still test on their normal leadership. Only the vehicles themselves count as LD10.

I like Blue Horrors myself.

When it comes to shooting, oddly enough, I find the horrors to be a bit more durable than the bloodletters, unless you can get them into cover. Then of course you're hurting their movement, which is already pretty bad for them. No fleet, so if your bloodletters are in cover you've got 1d6 for your movement, which is doubly harsh if the only thing you can get too is also in cover. Means you often need to hang around outside of cover to try and get closer, so you get shot more. And a 5+ save, even invulnerable, isn't that great, in my experience.

willydstyle wrote:I like Blue Horrors myself.

But Violet Horrors are the cheez.

GMMStudios wrote:Changeling is awesome against guard. Remember its anyone who fires at anything within the Changelings LOS has to pass a leadership test.

Ok, Im still new to this game but run daemons. Does the changeling ability proc against all shooting units in the 24 inch range or can it only be used on one target per turn or perhaps one target per shooting squad?

Dragon2439 wrote:

GMMStudios wrote:Changeling is awesome against guard. Remember its anyone who fires at anything within the Changelings LOS has to pass a leadership test.

Ok, Im still new to this game but run daemons. Does the changeling ability proc against all shooting units in the 24 inch range or can it only be used on one target per turn or perhaps one target per shooting squad?

Depends who you play. We play it as a 5 pt upgrade that forces a Ld. test ONCE per turn.

However the rule says "when an enemy unit within 24" attempts to shoot..." without giving any qualifier to indicate once. If it is every unit it is fairly broken...

I find a 10 man unit with changeling and bolt very effective, they're great vs most light infantry due to pure volume of fire, and the bolts very usefull against rhinos and the like.