Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I have been dying to test out my New Guard and shiny new Valkyries against a hard tourney list. So I hit up a buddy and we proxied out one of the Nob Biker lists that did well at Adepticon. We played three games and so far IG seems to be doing well there. Next in my gauntlet will be Kairos Crusherspam, then Dual Lash. Cant wait!

Sorry for no pics, the lighting in my buddys game room is not sufficient for my poor iPhone camera.

Here is the list I am running at this point, I am keeping to only models I have available as I want to run this for some of the upcoming Indy GT circuit events.

211th Cadian Armored Cavalry Regiment / Alpha Company, 1st Battalion(Reinforced)

HQ- Colonel Carlston Ebonstone Regimental Commander 211th Armored Cav
CHQ – 4x Melta, Chimera Hull HF, ML, HS

HQ- Captain Damian Emerald, Company Comander, Alpha Co. 1st BN of the 211th Armored Cav.
CHQ - – 4x Melta, Chimera Hull HF, ML, HS

Elites – Regimental Primaris Auxillary Detachment
Psyker Battle Squad, (1 Minder, 8 Psykers), Chimera Hull HB, ML, HS

Elites – Inquisitor Alexander Crucius & Retinue
DH Inquisitor+ 2x Mystics

Troops- 1st Assault Support Squad, Sgt William Grey
Veteran Squad, 3x Melta, Vox, Chimera Hull HF, ML, HS

Troops – 2nd Assault Support Squad, Sgt Michael Pike
Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma, Vox, Chimera Hull HF, ML, HS

Troops – 3rd Assault Support Squad, Sgt Christopher Scott
Veteran Squad, 2x Flamer, 1x Hvy Flamer, Vox, Chimera Hull HF, ML, HS

Fast Attack – 828th Ground Support Squadron, Gold One – call sign “Gambler“
1x Valkyrie Gunships with Rocket Pods

Fast Attack – 828th Ground Support Squadron, Gold Two – call sign “Gunslinger”
1x Vendetta Gunships

Fast Attack – 828th Ground Support Squadron, Gold Three – call sign “NightMare”
1x Vendetta Gunships

Heavy Support – B Troop, 13th Armored BN, 211th Armored Cavalry
1x LRBT w/Plasma Sponsons, 1x LR Demolisher w/Plasma Sponsons, Lascannon






His List:

Warboss: Power Klaw, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon, Attack Squig, Bosspole, Cybork Body, Warbike

Warboss: Power Klaw, Slugga Kombi-weapon, Attack Squig, Bosspole, Cybork Body, Warbike

Elite
13 Kommandos: Burna x2,
Snikrot

Troops
Nobz: Big Choppa x2, Choppa X5, Power Klaw x2, Slugga x2, Shoota/Rokkit Kombi-weapon x1, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x1, TL Shoota x1, Ammo Runt x1, Bosspole x1, Cybork body x1, Waaagh banner x1
Painboy: ‘Urty Syringe, Dok’s tools, Grot orderly, Warbike


Nobz: Big Choppa x2, Choppa X5, Power Klaw x2, Slugga x2, Shoota/Rokkit Kombi-weapon x1, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x1, TL Shoota x1, Ammo Runt x1, Bosspole x1, Cybork body x1, Waaagh banner x1
Painboy: ‘Urty Syringe, Dok’s tools, Grot orderly, Warbike


We have all seen the theory hammer on Nob Bikers vs New guard, but I was still shocked how totally one sided all three games were, and how quick.

We tried me going first, him going first and him seizing initiative. Nothing mattered each game was a carbon copy but My going first just made it really sad.

The first game I went first, He deployed as close as possible in typical Nob Biker fashion, and I scout moved all three Valks up close, then moved into escort a flanking position on his left flank. My inquisitor basically was an observer all game, so He just hung out in the Pod Valk.

My tanks took position in the center with my line of Chimeras spread in front, PBS in the center, one CCS on each side. The Flamer and Plasma Vets on my left, and the melta vets on my right.

I moved the entire army 6” forward, and planned to fire everything at his right hand biker squad. The tanks alone delivered 16 wounds and the demolisher was beautiful killing 2 outright, and while only two more wounds made it through the cover saves it was enough. The PBS went off and the Nobz were now LD2 !

The remainder of my army then focused on the second biker squad and I was amazed at how little damage I did with 6 TL lascannons, 21 multilaser shots, 18 hvy stubba shots, 3 plasma guns shots and 2 s4 pie plates. All of that only managed to deal 4 wounds to the squad. Still the job was done, Biker 1 broke and the Vendettas were in solid position to escort them off the board. 1 down 1 to go.

On his turn the Orcs did what they had to do, turbo boot into assault position, I don’t know anything else they could have done, but it was just pure suicide.

On my turn, my entire army moved forward again, and 7 heavy flamers plus the Russ Squadron proceeded to decimate the Nobz. Adding in all the meltaguns and plasmaguns helped deliver an impressive 11 wounds, and 3 dead ( Demolisher Cannon again) PBS failed to go off so the game was till on, but he just did not have enough.

On his turn he managed to assault 4 of my 6 chims, killed 3, and I lost a few models ( including 2 meltagunners from one CCS and 2 Psykers, to explosions ) His first bike squad finished running away and Snikrot came in, assaulting the flamer vet chimera, killing it as well.

On My turn the flamer and plasma vet squads annihilated Snikrot with the help of the plasmagunners chimera and the Valkyries Rocket Pods. The survivors from the chimera carnage and the tank squadron finished off another 3 nobs now that most of the heavy flamers were burning with their vehicle mounts. This time the PBS succeded, the nobz broke and the vaklyries provided an unbroken string of 12” coverage to ensure they could not rally. Game.

My opponent was tabled, effectively on turn 2, although his nobz may have taken a turn or two to run off the board. I had lost 4 chimeras and 8 guardsmen.

Frankly I was stunned, and had the PBS not failed to go off on my turn two I would have finished the game with nothing but a single chimera lost to the enemy.

We played two more game, the second was just a mirror of the first as his going first just changed my deployment a bit, and the Valkyries scout move was brilliant at funneling his movement. This Time I did lose 2 psykers to a failed perils of the warp, but I also did much better with the demolisher. (That tank with plasma sponsons was the star of all three games, Im in love with it. We are going shopping for a ring together this weekend )

The third game was the closest with him seizing the initiative and taking advantage of my deployment. Even though we knew he was going to get the initiative I made an effort to deploy as I normally would have. He almost managed to get to the psykers but just missed squeezing through a charge to them. Had me managed to kill them on turn two I might have lost the game as tis pretty clear this matchup is either a one sided guard massacre, or a total annihilation of the guard at the hands of the orks. I could see several times that a short string of bad luck on the guards part could allow the Nobs to finish me off.

Still, 3 games, with all three total table wins by no later than turn 4 was very impressive to me.

I do not think this army is unbeatable by any streatch, nor do I think Nob Bikers could not adapt, but these three games at least proved to me that new IG has some serious teeth against at leas one hard as nails tourney list.

I hope to try again this weekend against the Crusher Spam list, very interested to see how I can do against that nightmare.

I guess two nob biker list will need to change with IG new codex.

I was thinking a list with 10 nobbiker, 2 warboss to make the unit 12 man strong. Also adding two battlewagon with no upgrades, just use them to screen the bikers for one to two turns. After that the biker can charge the PBS and hope to kill them in that turn. Still will be hard, but at least with this, nobbikers will have more chance.

ps: I play full warbikers list: two 10 man nobbiker and two unit of 12 warbikers, with one warboss and wazddakka for 2500 points (and 2 deffcoptas). But with this new IG codex, my list will just be easy kill for IG.

I think Nob Bikers will still be seen, just not the list based around two huge nob units and little if anything else.

Hiding the bikers behind the Battlewagons for a turn or two could be very effective. Sure the 'dettas can get to them but that is no where near enough to really hurt them.

I think the most important thing to do from the Ork perspective is to pop as many chimera's as possible before the Nobz get there. Especially the PBS chim.

Nothing has changed the fact that the guardsmen evaporate if caught in the oppen to assault.

Thanks Big Troy!

I hadn't gotten around to this match, and this saved me a night of teching out...

Here are my thoughts on nob bikers.

I think the whole concept of making sure each unit was 11 strong was an effort to not get tank shocked on turn 1. Its pretty silly considering they had a re-rollable leadership 9 to pass it. But now, that just eats up way too many points.

Its EXACTLY like you say. Nob bikers bring something that can kill chimeras.

I still like two squads, I still like wound dispersal. But being more economical with the upgrades, and with the unit sizes to try and milk around 300 points out of the list. Then spend those points on either batteries of kannons or lootas. Thanks to weaken resolve, my vote is for the former. Make them ignore the kannons/lootas to try and run off a bike squad, or make them burn a turn silencing your guns. Which could get a biker unit buried really deep into the gunline.

Its not a perfect solution. But if you wanted to keep playing a nob biker list (and why wouldn't you, they still thrash the majority of armies out there) you might want to try something like this to stay relevant.

Thanks again for the informative batreps, and thanks to you and your friend for trying the different permutations as well.

Glad it helped Shep, your posts have been a huge help with my own lists so Im very pleased to have returned the favor somewhat.

Im not sure about the kannons, Lootas though mainly due to the Vendettas. They make it very easy to take out soft backfield support units like that. Thats why I think one Biker with a solid mech screen, AND some good backfield support would work better.

The Orcs only need to get one bike squad through into the squishy parts for it to be almost game over. As long as they are charging into guardsmen and not the chimera shells just one squad can more than clean house.

The nice part is that this makes the Nobs list a more fun, balanced list to play against for other armies, and may help make the metagame more diverse.

We can only hope.

The orc vs IG match up I really want to see is the battlewagon spam list. 3-4 wagons with Kff mek and ghazzy supported by a few truck squads. I have a feeling that will be a tough one for the guard.

bigtmac68 wrote:....and may help make the metagame more diverse.

Hell yeah, I know multiple hardcore chaos players that have dropped oblits/demon princes/cult marines completely from their lists!

They are lashing out of rhinos, and running havocs in rhinos and predators along with outflanking chosen. Talk about a fresh face to an old army style.

Orks are taking trukks and wagons?

Space marines are leaving assault terminators and drop pods at home, but still have high powered lists?

I can make a powerful dark angels army?


I think some people are lamenting the rise of mech and the fall of horde, but any time we all get to look at our old codexes, and make new choices in those same books to adapt to the metagame, that makes 40k fun.

Shep wrote:

bigtmac68 wrote:....and may help make the metagame more diverse.

Hell yeah, I know multiple hardcore chaos players that have dropped oblits/demon princes/cult marines completely from their lists!

They are lashing out of rhinos, and running havocs in rhinos and predators along with outflanking chosen. Talk about a fresh face to an old army style.

Orks are taking trukks and wagons?

Space marines are leaving assault terminators and drop pods at home, but still have high powered lists?

I can make a powerful dark angels army?


I think some people are lamenting the rise of mech and the fall of horde, but any time we all get to look at our old codexes, and make new choices in those same books to adapt to the metagame, that makes 40k fun.

honestly it feels like when i first started playing 3rd ed. I dont think I saw many, if any, non mech armies back then. Of course it was due to being able to assault out of vehicles but still, I'm seeing armies that look so much like the ones we played back then. And I kinda like it.

I like the trend as well, I may be an old Airborne Grunt but Im still a tread head at heart. So being able to mix a little Patton with my Gary Owen is just pure heaven.

bigtmac68 wrote:

I do not think this army is unbeatable by any streatch, nor do I think Nob Bikers could not adapt, but these three games at least proved to me that new IG has some serious teeth against at leas one hard as nails tourney list.

I don't really think they can adapt to this. If you run the unit leaner you're still looking at a minimum 200 point investment running off the table and that's with absolutely no upgrades.

Bikers got really hurt by PSB. They already had leadership issues to begin with for such an expensive unit. Now it's further exacerbated.

I have to agree with KevinNash here on the nob bikers, however, that is only vs 1 army so in a tourney, the nob bikers can still rip face and never face that army.

Somnicide wrote:I have to agree with KevinNash here on the nob bikers, however, that is only vs 1 army so in a tourney, the nob bikers can still rip face and never face that army.

until everyoen and there mother shows up with guard cause its the new shiny supposedly OP codex :p

I think you can leave the word 'supposedly' out of that sentence, Khornatedemon. Imperial Guard are simply over the top. The Ld reducing PBS, the troops with 3 special weapons, the Wave Serpents with 3 TL Lascannons instead of 1 TL Bright Lance (for a lower cost I might add), not to mention the shiny Heavy Support section.

Imperial Guard are just about the equivalent of the Daemons of Chaos in Warhammer Fantasy, and we all know how extremely powerful they are.

WoW Airmaniac, I think you overstate the case a bit. I can tell you having played 8 deliberatly difficult games with new guard that they are brutal, but I can already see the numerous weak points in all of the builds.

IG is no where near OP, they are just difficult to deal with. Vulkan Marines as just one example match up very well against Mech Guard. There are plenty of other examples.

I just played 5 games today against Kairos Crusherspam, won 4 lost 1, and none of those 4 wins were easy.

We discusses several ways that deamons could adjust that will make life much harder for the guard. Inquisimystics in a Valkyrie are annoying as hell for crusher spam, but a faster list with better shooting support could make things very hard on mech guard pretty quickly.

I am comited to guard mainly because I was Airborne/Airmoble in RL and it just appeals to me on a very deep level to have those beautiful Valkyries on the table.

Because of that, I can assure you im not allowing myself to get all cocky. Guard is filled with weakspots!

IG overpowered? Hardly.

They are simply playable now.

For those IG players who cut their teeth since the release of our last codex, they may seem rather strong. This is because IG players (like old Ork players) had to get by with an inferior codex, so if they could manage with that codex, a more powerful codex would make them actually very competitive.

All of the (handful) of games I have played with the new IG have been KP, and I actually won them. They were close, and honestly could of gone either way, but the fact that I wasn't completely destroyed tells me that this codex has more likely fixed IG than make them OP.

I agree with BoxANT IG aren't OP imo-there simply is no 'power unit' which trumps everything and most of the IG units are very weak on their own, with average LD, BS, toughness, no save etc. Even the tanks are mostly BS 3, so alot of firepower is wasted. Vets with 3 meltas are 100 points and die extremely quickly if shot (yes they can hide in tanks but chimeras aren't exactly invincible).

Today I played against my friends white scars-his entire army deepstriked/outflanked..I was a little unlucky in my shooting phase and his next assault phase was very brutal on my poor tanks thats for sure =P!

IG arent OP. They can be beaten like everything else. People are just going to have to adapt their lists to take them into account now, same as you did for lash or nob bikers.

My only gripe with the book is how undercosted the vendetta is.

Jpr wrote:I agree with BoxANT IG aren't OP imo-there simply is no 'power unit' which trumps everything and most of the IG units are very weak on their own, with average LD, BS, toughness, no save etc. Even the tanks are mostly BS 3, so alot of firepower is wasted. Vets with 3 meltas are 100 points and die extremely quickly if shot (yes they can hide in tanks but chimeras aren't exactly invincible).

Today I played against my friends white scars-his entire army deepstriked/outflanked..I was a little unlucky in my shooting phase and his next assault phase was very brutal on my poor tanks thats for sure =P!

I had a similar case of this today. I was running some non competititve IG for sure, but my opponent ran 3 drop pods (2 w/ Dreadnoughts 1 w/Combat squadded Tac squad) and he got the first turn, so I had a pair of dreadnoughts drop right next to my tanks and start shooting em up with the assault cannons from the get go.

In the short game that followed I learned 1 real important thing: Drop pods make IG cry.
By nulling out their ranged support with Deep Striking action and plugging up fire lanes, Space Marines can do an effective job of being very anti armor. Especially with all the powerfists flying around.

I tried with 3 battlewagon, 2 units of 9 nobbikers and 2 warbosses against IG last weekend. The IG was 2 unit of PBS, 1 medusa, 2 demolisher, 2 valkyrie with veteran squad with 3 meltas, 1 normal platton and 1 hq.

The battle was quarters and 4 objectives. I got to go first.

The game was pretty simple, I screen my bikers with wagon for 2 turns, he did destroyed 2 wagons in 2 turns, and also kill 1 to 2 nobbikers and a warboss (thanks to 3 cover save, the blast did not hurt too much). Turn three I got multiple charge, I did not kill the 2 PBS squad, but i managed to kill all the tanks in 2 multiple charge in turn 3. So after that even with PBS he has no killing power to make my nobbikers to do leadership test, so we end the game at turn 4.

ps: The wagons has all the upgrades to get shots, like ard case, red paint and grot riggers. Also deff rolla in case i can make tank shock. Thanks to the wagons, his PBS did not have the LOS to see my nobbikers for 2 turns.

ShadowRocket wrote:

Jpr wrote:

In the short game that followed I learned 1 real important thing: Drop pods make IG cry.
By nulling out their ranged support with Deep Striking action and plugging up fire lanes, Space Marines can do an effective job of being very anti armor. Especially with all the powerfists flying around.

I had a similar case of this today. I was running some non competititve IG for sure, but my opponent ran 3 drop pods (2 w/ Dreadnoughts 1 w/Combat squadded Tac squad) and he got the first turn, so I had a pair of dreadnoughts drop right next to my tanks and start shooting em up with the assault cannons from the get go.

In the short game that followed I learned 1 real important thing: Drop pods make IG cry.
By nulling out their ranged support with Deep Striking action and plugging up fire lanes, Space Marines can do an effective job of being very anti armor. Especially with all the powerfists flying around.

I can see Podding SM being very effective against MechVet IG. They simply do not have the bodies needed to screen their tanks from DS meltaguns.

However, against platoon heavy IG covering their tanks, it is a lot harder for podding marines to do their damage before being nuked.

BoxANT wrote:

ShadowRocket wrote:

Jpr wrote:

In the short game that followed I learned 1 real important thing: Drop pods make IG cry.
By nulling out their ranged support with Deep Striking action and plugging up fire lanes, Space Marines can do an effective job of being very anti armor. Especially with all the powerfists flying around.

I had a similar case of this today. I was running some non competititve IG for sure, but my opponent ran 3 drop pods (2 w/ Dreadnoughts 1 w/Combat squadded Tac squad) and he got the first turn, so I had a pair of dreadnoughts drop right next to my tanks and start shooting em up with the assault cannons from the get go.

In the short game that followed I learned 1 real important thing: Drop pods make IG cry.
By nulling out their ranged support with Deep Striking action and plugging up fire lanes, Space Marines can do an effective job of being very anti armor. Especially with all the powerfists flying around.

I can see Podding SM being very effective against MechVet IG. They simply do not have the bodies needed to screen their tanks from DS meltaguns.

However, against platoon heavy IG covering their tanks, it is a lot harder for podding marines to do their damage before being nuked.

and dont forget podding marines get hosed by the inquisitor and mystic any tournament guard list is sure to have.

IQ/Mystics seems to hamper podding marines against any IG. IG has so many weapons that simply trump power armor that the free shots the Mystics grant can wipe whatever comes out of a pod (ie 5 plasma cannon blasts coming from one tank).

Yeah, mystic makes drop poding meltaguns a suicide tactic. Sternguard in Drop pods just die. Even podding Dreads have little chance with Vendetta's on hand to punish any dread foolish enough to drop within the huge sphere of death made possible by the enourmous Valkdetta hull.

BoxANT wrote:I can see Podding SM being very effective against MechVet IG. They simply do not have the bodies needed to screen their tanks from DS meltaguns.

However, against platoon heavy IG covering their tanks, it is a lot harder for podding marines to do their damage before being nuked.

One of the problems with any list that plans to 'drop in and kill tanks' is that you end up just killing the transports and not the guys inside. the guys inside that have 12" range deathguns. So you drop, score 55 victory points, and then scoop up your unit on their turn. If you go after russes instead of chimeras, then you increase your life expectancy by maybe one more turn, but now the units in the chimeras are still completely impervious to morale and infantry kill for a whole new turn.

Marines in rhinos get to play the same cheap game with IG. Your first "kill" against the marine player is worth 35 points, and now they can melta you, and even charge you. Your anti-transport guns will probably be hard pressed, as you are going to be surrounded by speeders and non-dropping dreadnoughts along with the rhinos.

Even without any mystics. I'm not really afraid of drop marines. I am starting to get my butt handed to me by mechanized marines though. In fact I just lost to a dark angels list, and I'll be posting that batrep shortly.

IG are broken now... but only to the armies that haven't made any adjustments yet. All the batreps you guys are seeing are "this new army against this old army" CSM, SM and demons have steps they can take, and are taking now (at least in my group) I'd like to see more mechanized ork batreps but I'm waiting on KevinNash to get some buggies from mail order to make my own.

Shep, have you tried your IG against Tau? Railguns, piranhas, fireknife/deathrain suits and all that seems like it could give IG a go.

PBS really makes Tau cry, but mech Tau is fairly popular anyway. The hydras are probably the thing I'd fear most.

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:Shep, have you tried your IG against Tau? Railguns, piranhas, fireknife/deathrain suits and all that seems like it could give IG a go.

PBS really makes Tau cry, but mech Tau is fairly popular anyway. The hydras are probably the thing I'd fear most.

I was in the middle of painting a tau army when the IG book hit and i shelved them. I was thinking about a PBS proof tau army that was basically

ionhead x2

broadsides joined with a shaso joined with an ethereal with a gang of shield drones

minimum fire warriors in maximum fish x3 held off for most of the game with positional relay

the rest of the points in BS4 fusion piranhas


That would just be brutal for any mech army to face. transports instantly evaporated, nothing good to shoot at except 2+ armor in cover or armor 11/12/13 in cover.


I may resurrect my tau just for lists like that. The problem is if you anticipate mech then thats a good list, but if little Jimmy didn't get the memo that his nob bikers or horde orks or nids were obsolete, then you could end up getting destroyed by them. If too many lists like this appear as a counter to 'balanced' mech lists like marines and IG, then horde will be able to come in and clean up against an army with no answer to them.

I was thinking more along the lines of 4-5 railguns, 2-4 FCW/Pathfinders in fish with fireknife/piranha spam maybe outflanking kroot for late game annoyance via pos relay.

Haven't seen the IG codex yet - what's the LD on PBS? Is it 7 or 8?

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:

Haven't seen the IG codex yet - what's the LD on PBS? Is it 7 or 8?

9 i believe

(double checks codex)

Yup Overseer and Psykers both LD9

Would it be worth it to Throw a Canonness with Book in with the squad for a nice double punch. Makes all units within 6" of the Chim stubborn and boost the Psykers ld to 10.

Costs a CCS slot though, but its only 50 pts. Might be worth it at 1850.

bigtmac68 wrote:We are going shopping for a ring together this weekend

ROFL

Good rep - Thanks!