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Made in us
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer




Ann Arbor, MI

Note to Mods: I agree that the last Blue Table Painting thread be locked as the "case" was closed, but wanted to express my opinion. Simply feel free to lock it after my post please.

To Shawn of Blue Table Painting:

After reading your responses I have to say, I respect yourself and Blue Table Painting as a whole. It's not often that the actual company replies to a thread such as the one that was posted. I fully agree that sometimes those threads do indeed turn into pushing in line to see who gets to throw the first stone. Nothing can ever be 100% and it never will be, no matter what form of business you run or how hard you try; that's just the facts of life. While I must say that I would never pay to have my miniatures painted, by any company, (That's half the fun to me.) I will indeed be recommending you to anyone looking for that form of service. I found even myself to quick to judge.

Keep up the great work everyone. You're popular and here around Dakka for a reason.

Kudos.

-J.

In Vino Veritas. ("In wine there is truth.")

"If a man dedicates his life to good deeds and the welfare of others, he will die unthanked and unremembered. If he exercises his genius bringing misery and death to billions, his name will echo down through the millennia for a hundred lifetimes. Infamy is always more preferable to ignominy." -Fabius Bile



 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Didn't see the original post, no comment to it. That said:

I met Shawn of Blue Table at Adepticon this year. He is a very personable, friendly and professional person. The stuff his group produces and displays is striking and a welcome addition to any event I have seen them at.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/11 20:16:17


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





San Jose, CA

What happened to the original thread?
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

theHandofGork wrote:What happened to the original thread?


No Quality Check for a customer's order ( dakka member )
charged $65 to paint a Tyrant that can be painted if a foot was used.

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Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot





San Diego, CA USA

Lol luna... was it really that bad?

 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





St. Louis, MO

Just to throw in my 4 cents (I'm verbose).

I think very highly of BTP and their staff... Esp. Shawn.

I've interacted with him dozens of times, and have never been less than impressed with the level of customer service he generates.

I *do* have models that were painted by BTP, and I was/am exceptionally happy with them. I think that anyone UNHAPPY with the models LIKELY didn't realize that he was contracting for tabletop or slightly above tabletop standard (in most cases).

Granted, I didn't see the original thread, so I can only speak from personal knowledge.

In fairness: I *have* worked freelance for BTP before (not as a painter, though). So, I do have some "history" with them.
My history with them does not affect my opinions, however. It's my opinions of them that were here FIRST. Without thinking highly of them, I'd have never freelanced for them.

Eric

Black Fiend wrote: Okay all the ChapterHouse Nazis to the right!! All the GW apologists to the far left. LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE !!!
The Green Git wrote: I'd like to cross section them and see if they have TFG rings, but that's probably illegal.
Polonius wrote: You have to love when the most clearly biased person in the room is claiming to be objective.
Greebynog wrote:Us brits have a sense of fair play and propriety that you colonial savages can only dream of.
Stelek wrote: I know you're afraid. I want you to be. Because you should be. I've got the humiliation wagon all set up for you to take a ride back to suck city.
Quote: LunaHound--- Why do people hate unpainted models? I mean is it lacking the realism to what we fantasize the plastic soldier men to be?
I just can't stand it when people have fun the wrong way. - Chongara
I do believe that the GW "moneysheep" is a dying breed, despite their bleats to the contrary. - AesSedai
You are a thief and a predator of the wargaming community, and i'll be damned if anyone says differently ever again on my watch in these forums. -MajorTom11 
   
Made in us
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer




Ann Arbor, MI

LBursley wrote:Lol luna... was it really that bad?


Please don't take over this thread w/ a response Luna. The other topic was closed for a reason; I merely started this thread to give a commendation, not to restart the old. Thank you.

-J.

In Vino Veritas. ("In wine there is truth.")

"If a man dedicates his life to good deeds and the welfare of others, he will die unthanked and unremembered. If he exercises his genius bringing misery and death to billions, his name will echo down through the millennia for a hundred lifetimes. Infamy is always more preferable to ignominy." -Fabius Bile



 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Never seen the orignial thread, so no clue.

But I've been using Blue Table for years now, and highly, highly highly recommend them to paint stuff up. I've done it for 40k and models from a varity of companies to use in my D&D game. Shawn is easy to work with and fits it in to what you want.

I've had them both just run with their imagination on miniatures, and also had sent them samples and told them match it exactly. And they've come through with flying colors. And if its not approved by me they've fixed it. I've had one or two they didnt quite look like I wanted them and they fixed it.

I really cant say enough good things about them.

Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers...  
   
Made in gb
Irked Blood Angel Scout with Combat Knife




London, UK

Well if you look at their youtube videos - there is a lot of great ideas and nicely painted minis. I think I prefer to paint my armies myself - so my upcoming BA paint-a-thon is using a lot of conversion and painting techniques taken from BTP youtube videos.

I might try and get a HQ choice such as the Hector Rex model from them as a thank you for their ideas and great help to the 40k community

1500 pts 3000 pts 4500 pts 3000 pts *buidling*  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




FieronThor wrote:
I might try and get a HQ choice such as the Hector Rex model from them as a thank you for their ideas and great help to the 40k community


Make sure you send enough samples when you do. Dont just send one model. When I had them paint some extra models for my sisters army painted ages ago, and I sent them 6-10 and it came out beautiful. I cant tell which is which.

Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers...  
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

carmachu wrote:Never seen the orignial thread, so no clue.


For who ever reported my pots why not see it for yourself before judging me ?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/239429.page


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Modquisition edit.

here's a soothing kitten instead



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/12 22:15:01


Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers...  
   
Made in us
The Hammer of Witches





A new day, a new time zone.

Luna wasn't the original poster of that thread.

I'm going to say it was pretty silly to expect a single gaunt to de an adequate example to match something the size of a hive tyrant by, but that the painters also should've asked for more and better examples.

"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..."
Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Modquisition on:
Carmanchu was having a senior moment. Please ignore.


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I still stand by my statement. whoever it was that made it. If it earns me a suspension, so be it.

Deleted by the Modquisition.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/12 22:32:15


Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers...  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Las Vegas

Author deleted. Original Post still available to read.

BTP gave a comment on the OP that greatly helped my understanding of their services. Thank you BTP.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2009/05/12 22:43:19


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




GoFenris wrote:
carmachu wrote:I still stand by my statement. whoever it was that made it. If it earns me a suspension, so be it.

It was a crappy thing to do to blue table, whether it was the original thread creator or luna or anyone else.


If you buy a product, think it sucks and contact the seller. The seller says, "Hey that's the product and there is nothing wrong with it". Then the buyer has every right to let others know how he feels about it.

Well, if (and a big IF) the OP did try to resolve his issue through Blue Table Painting to no avail, the OP has a right to display the quality of work for the price and his personal opinions of it. I am NOT sure if the OP did that or not. I hope someone can clarify.

I also never got to read BTP's response.



Your so off base its not funny. You stand there and say a customer has a right to complain, but you didnt read the response of BTP? Wow how funny.

1) Nick contacted me the day before he made this post. I immediately offered him a full and unconditional refund. So people saying "Dude, you should get your money back" are one step behind as that was already offered.
2) We were sent a single Hormagaunt as a guide for matching. Often, we have clients who want their models to fit with an existing army, so we get them as close as possible. These particular models got to us already primed black (not our normal starting point for Tyranids). This is a catch-22 for a project of this type: if we paint them like the models on our website, will the client come back and say they should have matched the sample more closely? I think this is a fundamental disconnect here.
3) The pictures being presented for review blow up a one inch arm to twelve inches. And only focus in on errors, not the models as a whole. It's an unfair degree of magnification.
4) I have to concede one point: there are slops on the green muscle-splits. I noticed this when the artist brought them in and asked that they be cleaned up. Obviously this did not happen and they got into digital photography. This is my responsibility as Quality Control. I had conceded this point with the client before this forum-post was posted. And now that I look at it, the eyes are slopped, which is not right. So I apologize on that count.
5) The day before this post was made Nick emailed me and said that he would not badmouth another company in public. The name of my company is in the first line of this forum post.
6) I'd also like to point out that Blue Table Painting has done nearly 3000 projects to date. I have complaints of this nature in well under one project in 100. This is an imperfect science. I do my best to be responsive and make my clients happy. It's not as easy as you might think. I always follow up. There is a good reason I'm in business after all these years.


I am willing to repaint the nids from scratch. Send in a sample model to be replicated (ie a hive tyrant if a hive tyrant is to be painted) as well as the ones that we did for you. I will not repaint them-- the base layers are on too thick. Rather, I'll get fresh new models and make duplicates. Alternately, I can just take your general color scheme and work them up how we would do them given our druthers.


I think the original poster is a donkey's behind. Knowing how BTP acts having used them for YEARS, I know they will stand behind their product. No matter how much one whines, yes he was badmouthing BTP. I think he jumped the gun too fast while ammends were in progress.

Your characteriztion of what happened is funny. You didnt even read the outcome.


If your unhappy with the work they'll work with you till its right. I know. I've had at least one of the projects I commissioned FUBARed. It happens. I didnt come on and whine. I dealt with them direct and it worked out just fine and to my satisfaction.

(for the record- I have a marine army of entire beekie heads. I had sent them in with metal vets and wanted the heads removed and made beekie ones. An apparantly someone misread the detail sheet and made them plastic marines. At no charge they made new ones, and I didnt have to pay for the old ones. That? Is customer service you cant buy).

Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers...  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Las Vegas

Yeah, you're right, I jumped the gun. That's why I quickly found the reply, read it and deleted what I had said because I was wrong, stuck my foot in my mouth then shoved the whole bundle up my ass. Then deleted what I said (see above) but you beat me to it (the quote button) although I beat you to the post. Thanks for making me live up to my mistake.

Actually what I said wasn't unreasonable at all, I just jumped the gun before reading BTP's reply.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2009/05/12 22:56:13


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




GoFenris wrote:Yeah, you're right, I jumped the gun. That's why I quickly found the reply, read it and deleted what I had said because I was wrong, stuck my foot in my mouth then shoved the whole bundle up my ass. Then deleted what I said (see above) but you beat me to it (the quote button) although I beat you to the post. Thanks for making me live up to my mistake.

Actually what I said wasn't unreasonable at all, I just jumped the gun before reading BTP's reply.


I saw. After I posted.

Folks can complain....when they get no satisfaction. But I have found over the years that Blue Table Painting and Shawn is very much like Neal and the warstore.

Occassioally things will get screwed up. It happens. Its not necessary the next time Neal screws up my order at the Warstore to come on and complain or ask if this is a screw up to Dakka. I'll email Neal and it'll get resolved. Same with Blue Table.

Now if he wasnt getting any satisfaction from BTP, I can see bringing it here. Likes been done with Drop Zone and other problem places. But it really seems the OP jumped the gun alot. And appears to be in the middle of resolution. And for that earns my scorn and disgust. Even if it earns me a suspension.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/12 23:26:31


Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers...  
   
Made in us
Soul Token





The Pictures were pretty interesting.



I've never recieved Commissioned painting myself yet though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/13 02:10:19



The fastest, safest, and largest trade market on the net.
 
   
Made in gb
Araqiel





Ards - N.Ireland

I'd give BTP a thumbs up purely for the fact Shawn cam eon to the site himself to answer the thread. I've never seen that done personally on forums (It prob has happened) so tha tearne dhim alot fo respect in my eyes as a good guy who does try.

That alone would get me to use their service for the fact he came on and said if not happy he would work on making it better.

topic hugs all round?
   
Made in us
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos






Duce wrote:I'd give BTP a thumbs up purely for the fact Shawn cam eon to the site himself to answer the thread. I've never seen that done personally on forums (It prob has happened) so tha tearne dhim alot fo respect in my eyes as a good guy who does try.

That alone would get me to use their service for the fact he came on and said if not happy he would work on making it better.

topic hugs all round?


I can't speak to the specifics of the situation discussed in the other thread but I'll just point out that just because someone comes on and says " I did x, y,and z to appease a disgruntled customer" does not mean he actually did so or did so in the manner he is claiming.

Again not saying that Shawn is lying, but just because he (or anyone else) says they did something does not make it so, and a customer is well within his rights to offer negative criticism of a service/business. Locking threads because a person speaks badly of a business? Why? No proof?

What proof do we have that the people heaping praise on a business are being truthful? For the sake of impartiality fanboy Threads like this should be locked as well and a "no discussion of businesses" policy enacted if one is only willing to allow positive feedback.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/13 17:19:03


++ Death In The Dark++ A Zone Mortalis Hobby Project Log: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/663090.page#8712701
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Thread wasn't locked for that. The topic looked like it was being handled and was focused on a private matter that was shifting private and looked like it should be heading to direct messages to fix the problem.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




CT GAMER wrote:
Again not saying that Shawn is lying, but just because he (or anyone else) says they did something does not make it so, and a customer is well within his rights to offer negative criticism of a service/business. Locking threads because a person speaks badly of a business? Why? No proof?

What proof do we have that the people heaping praise on a business are being truthful? For the sake of impartiality fanboy Threads like this should be locked as well and a "no discussion of businesses" policy enacted if one is only willing to allow positive feedback.



By your logic, EVERY. SINGLE. POSTER. in the good evndor shout out thread is a liar for claiming that The Warstore, Chaosorc, Maelstrom games are quality outfits. What proof do they offer that their being truthful? Why should we believe THEM there, but question folks here?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/14 02:25:13


Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers...  
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

carmachu wrote:
CT GAMER wrote:
Again not saying that Shawn is lying, but just because he (or anyone else) says they did something does not make it so, and a customer is well within his rights to offer negative criticism of a service/business. Locking threads because a person speaks badly of a business? Why? No proof?

What proof do we have that the people heaping praise on a business are being truthful? For the sake of impartiality fanboy Threads like this should be locked as well and a "no discussion of businesses" policy enacted if one is only willing to allow positive feedback.



By your logic, EVERY. SINGLE. POSTER. in the good evndor shout out thread is a liar for claiming that The Warstore, Chaosorc, Maelstrom games are quality outfits. What proof do they offer that their being truthful? Why should we believe THEM there, but question folks here?



Well since it seems like your mind set is fixed on helping explain things for BTP, then will you answer some questions i have that are related? Of course BTP offered
a repaint , but lets discuss how on earth did it lead to that?

According to BTP , the commissioned painting was inadequate because apparantly the customer only sent a sample gaunt.
My question is , from a painter's point of view everywhere , what additional samples would we need to know that the flesh is to be red, carapace is to be black?

According to BTP , it was his mistakes to not quality check the product .
My question is , Why on earth was a beginner painting a lvl 4 painting service that leads to the mistake in the first place?

According to BTP, the customer have agreed to not make thread insulting the product.
My question is , where did he insult or break the agreement? Was he supposed to sugar coat the facts we see?

Carmachu, im fully aware BTP have done TONS of nice products (which you support) and i agree with you.

BUT thats irrelevant to the points i just listed isnt it?

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Made in us
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos






carmachu wrote:



By your logic, EVERY. SINGLE. POSTER. in the good evndor shout out thread is a liar for claiming that The Warstore, Chaosorc, Maelstrom games are quality outfits. What proof do they offer that their being truthful? Why should we believe THEM there, but question folks here?



Thats my point. The assumption that negative feedback/threads about something (a painting service in this case) must be stifled because the "proof" of the negative reviewers statements cant' be verified yet the allowance of likewise unverified positive reviews is a double standard and equally lacking in evidence.


My logic is that if your gonna allow one then you must allow the other or don't allow either.

People tend to take positive feedback at face value and yet have no idea if the feedback is truly warranted, made by people with some unknown connection or vested interest, etc. yet rush to stifle negative feedback claiming "lack of verification".

Either allow for both forms of feedback equally or ban the subject of discussion/advertising of such services, etc.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/05/14 04:33:06


++ Death In The Dark++ A Zone Mortalis Hobby Project Log: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/663090.page#8712701
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

CT GAMER wrote:

Either allow for both forms of feedback equally or ban the subject of discussion/advertising of such services, etc.


Speaking as MOD. If you are referring to the swap board, that is exactly what we have done (note the stickie on the swap page). that sub board is for swaps/bidding/announcing services, and questions related to it. Its not for discussion, criticism etc..

So far that is occurring on the discussion board. I don't know if thats the best place for it, but thats where its fallen to. The discussion board is open to all critiques, if they are critiquing the work. Again its the issue of addressing the points of the discussion and not the personalities ofo the poster. Avoid that and people can discuss to their heart's content.


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




LunaHound wrote:

Well since it seems like your mind set is fixed on helping explain things for BTP, then will you answer some questions i have that are related? Of course BTP offered
a repaint , but lets discuss how on earth did it lead to that?

According to BTP , the commissioned painting was inadequate because apparantly the customer only sent a sample gaunt.
My question is , from a painter's point of view everywhere , what additional samples would we need to know that the flesh is to be red, carapace is to be black?

According to BTP , it was his mistakes to not quality check the product .
My question is , Why on earth was a beginner painting a lvl 4 painting service that leads to the mistake in the first place?

According to BTP, the customer have agreed to not make thread insulting the product.
My question is , where did he insult or break the agreement? Was he supposed to sugar coat the facts we see?


What additional samples are needed? How about say...a dozen?

When I had them match my sisters army I sent about 10 or so. I dont send one, or two. I gave them a bunch so they can see all different detail. basic troopers, vets, VSS, special weapons....so they know.

I'm going to have them do IG right now. I'm sending two different tank samples and a dozen different trooper models. They'll get a feel for the army that one model just doesnt.

No clue. Maybe said beginner lied about his skill. As for checking the product...happens in miscommunication- espcially if its not on the insutruction sheet they make you send WITH said models detailing both built and painting. Perhaps someone misread it. Or perhaps someone didnt write enough.

The thread itself was. If it was being handled and restitution was made, the thread itself was unnecessary in and of itself.


Carmachu, im fully aware BTP have done TONS of nice products (which you support) and i agree with you.

BUT thats irrelevant to the points i just listed isnt it?


Nope not in the least. Someone's decided that since I had great service, even with the occassional screw up that I'm being untruthful now. I take that personal.

Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers...  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




CT GAMER wrote:

Thats my point. The assumption that negative feedback/threads about something (a painting service in this case) must be stifled because the "proof" of the negative reviewers statements cant' be verified yet the allowance of likewise unverified positive reviews is a double standard and equally lacking in evidence.


You havea strange double standard.

In his case, he made an agreement not to bad mouth said product and broke n while restitition is being made. Yet your claiming we're stifling his ability. No one said one cant make proof of negative statements, but going back on your word is a bit different.

In my case, while I said I have great service, even with the occssional screw up, you are basically trying to shut me down and in fact, are calling me a liar.


My logic is that if your gonna allow one then you must allow the other or don't allow either.

People tend to take positive feedback at face value and yet have no idea if the feedback is truly warranted, made by people with some unknown connection or vested interest, etc. yet rush to stifle negative feedback claiming "lack of verification".

Either allow for both forms of feedback equally or ban the subject of discussion/advertising of such services, etc.


Your logic sucks monkey you know what. They two are NOT the same.

In case of say....drop zone, bad service was done. no one stifled them at all. But complaining while thing get fixed? Especially when you said you wouldnt? Yeah that doesnt fly.

I strongly suggest you stop calling me a liar on good service. Or that I have a vested interest.

Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers...  
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive



As unsatisfied as i am with the answer, it ultimately doesnt matter , unless shawn ( main BTP owner? ) answer those questions himself.

I mean its possible that my wording for the questions are totally off that you just mis interpret what im trying to get at. Or i simply dont share the same amount of faith you do regarding this.




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          ʳʷ   ᵖˡᵃʸ  ᵖᵃᵘˢᵉ  ˢᵗᵒᵖ   ᶠᶠ 
   
 
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