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First of all can Nork go in a Valkarie, on a side note can ogryns go in a vendetta?

Yes to both, subject to the Ogryn's Bulky special rule.

Yes, as there are no rules preventing them in the 5th edition codex from doing so.

Page 56 of the IG codex:

"A Valkyrie has a transport capacity of twelve models. It cannot carry Ogryns."


And before you say "But that just says Valkyrie!", please keep in mind that page 56 is the ONLY place that rules are presented for both the Valkyrie and Vendetta and the box-out on page 56 makes it clear that the Vendetta is just a differently named version of the Valkyrie. Finally, if you still insist that a Vendetta is not a Valkyrie and therefore that restriction on Ogryns only applies to Valkyries, let me point out to you that the only Access Point rules for Valkyries and Vendettas is also found on that page and says:

"Valkyries have one access point on each side of the hull and one at the rear."

So if you're assuming that Valkyrie does not equal Vendetta for the Ogryn rule then you also have to assume that the Vendetta has no Access points too (both of which are absurd IMHO).


As for Nork, he has the 'bulky' special rule which says:

"Ogryns are colossal thugs with thick-set frames and immense gus. Each Ogryn coutns as two models for the purposes of transport capacity."


So having 'Bulky' IMHO identifies him as being an Ogryn and means he cannot be transported on a Valykrie or Vendetta.

I am going to have to confront you on this one, Yakface. Nork is an Ogryn, but he has never been subject to regular Ogryn special rules besides being bulky (Stupid way back in 2nd I believe, and "It's Dark in Der!" in the last Codex). I think the intent is that Nork is so loyal that he will follow his charge anywhere! Of course, I am not the rules maker, but I would let Nork in a Valkyrie (and I wouldn't stand in his way if he wanted to). I would say ol' Nork Deddog has a pass on this one.

There is no question that Nork is an ogryn however the rule specifies that it cannot carry Ogryns (A proper noun), referring to the Ogryns selection on the elites choice, not all ogryns which is different. For instance if something said Troops cannot go in transports that would specifically mean the Troops selection of the force chart not all things we would consider troops.

I am going to have to retract my statement and agree with Yak.

Yep, my bad. Looks like Yak is right again.

FlipForFree wrote:... however the rule specifies that it cannot carry Ogryns (A proper noun), referring to the Ogryns selection on the elites choice, not all ogryns which is different.

Wrong. If that were the case, then it would say 'Ogryn Squad' and not 'Ogryns'. The wording includes all Ogryns, no matter how they were purchased.

Wrong, the CAPITOL "O" means its a proper noun. Nouns name people, places, and things. Every noun can further be classified as common or proper. A proper noun has two distinctive features: 1) it will name a specific [a one-of-a-kind] item, and 2) it will begin with a capital letter no matter where it occurs in a sentence. In this case im am speaking about Nork who is an HQ choice ogryn not an Ogryn. The capitol "o" makes is very simple.

FlipForFree wrote:Wrong, the CAPITOL "O" means its a proper noun. Nouns name people, places, and things. Every noun can further be classified as common or proper. A proper noun has two distinctive features: 1) it will name a specific [a one-of-a-kind] item, and 2) it will begin with a capital letter no matter where it occurs in a sentence. In this case im am speaking about Nork who is an HQ choice ogryn not an Ogryn. The capitol "o" makes is very simple.

The word "Ogryn" is always capitalized everywhere in the codex, including the fluff (and Nork's fluff too!), so the fact that it is capitalized in the Valkyrie rules is just consistent and not IMHO a sign that Nork being an Ogryn doesn't apply in this instance.

I'm sticking to my guns. Like a Guardsmen with a melta facing down a Monolith, it is most likely a poor decision facing off with Yakface, but if I take that big mean Necro death brick down, well I shall earn a place of honor by the Emperor's side! DEATH OR GLORYYYY!!!

FlipForFree wrote:Wrong, the CAPITOL "O" means its a proper noun.

And the proper noun is 'Ogryn', not 'Ogryn Squad'. The capitalized 'O' does not make the two terms interchangeable.

Fluff never and will never dictate rules. I know its cheesy and all but i promise you if you ask any english teacher they will tell you the same thing. "A Valkyrie has a transport capacity of twelve models. It cannot carry Ogryns." This is referring to a one of a kind thing, the Ogryns selection of the Elites choices. There is a reason why the word Five Guys is capitolized for the five guys burger joint, they arent referring to 5 random people.

Simpler, much more direct and on subject. The word for humans is spelled with a lower case "h" (as just demonstrated). If I wanted to talk about a special kind of group, say, a band called "Humans," it would be spelled Humans, with an uppercase "H." And never shall they meet (except at the beginning of sentences and other very specific situations).

EDIT : I still support Nork on a Plane, but I am not personally supporting the whole uppercase system, I am just laying out a fact of grammar.

My English teacher would tell me that fluff doesn't dictate the rules? Awesome. I always thought he was too old to be a gamer. Shows what I know.

But no. You sir, are incorrect. There are lots of examples in GW rules that blow your little paper tiger to pieces. Daemon for example, or Eldar, I could go on and on, but I won't, because there's no point in rubbing it in.

*edit* spelling and grammar fixes, as a tip of the hat to Mr. Sykes, who did his best to make Hamlet interesting.

And yet again, 'Ogryns' does not equal 'Ogryn Squad' no matter how many times you repeat it. Or are you going to say that when Codex Space Marine capatilizes 'Space Marines' it's only referring to a Tactical Squad or when Codex Orks capitalizes the word 'Orks' it's only referring to an Orlk Boyz mob?

Wonderful, you made a joke and pointed out a reference to Deamon being capitolized. Then failed to make any point. Where does the capitolized deamon come into a rules discussion?

The title of the book is Space Marines. What does that have to do with a rules dispute where the name comes into play? Yes titles are capitolized and yes when they capitolize it they mean the Space Marines that are in the codex not some group of semper fis on the moon.

By the way its not called an ogryn squad, its listed as Ogryns in the codex.

Try looking at the army list entry on page 94. It's clearly called an 'Ogryn Squad'.

Or try some actual consideration of the points being raised aginst yours. There are lots of rules that reference capitalized words (just like Ogryn) but that apply to more than one unit.

What would be wonderful is if you took some time to consider what people have actually said before you toss off a half baked reply. I didn't go into great detail becuase, honestly, I thought it was far to obvious for me to need to.

My apologies i was looking at the Ogryn section, but with your logic Vlakaries can then take Ogyrn Squads because it only excludes Ogyns.

Please point to the evidence for this statement "There are lots of rules that reference capitalized words"

[Repeat my above post in this space]

We are all men of actionn here, trolling does not become us.

.... I don't know how you deal with this sometimes yakface. I didn't capitalize you name because it's nat capital in your profile, and if I had people might think I was talking about somebody else.....

You have yet to produce a situation where THE RULES are in question because of a word, like Deamon, is capitolized.

Im not sure if you are aware of this sexiest_hero but there is no enforcement of the English language on message forums, but if there was peoples names would be capitolized. Because yes is someone named themselves Forums i could get confused if you were referring to forums.

FlipForFree wrote:Please point to the evidence for this statement "There are lots of rules that reference capitalized words"

Pick a book, any book, and you'll probably find at least one decent example. "Friendly Tau unit" works for me (markerlights), Terminators as models in Terminator Armour, most of the Eldar psychic powers reference Eldar like that. Sometimes the answer is crystal clear, and sometimes it isn't (some non-Chaos codex things are indeed Daemons, for example). This particular case is pretty clear.

You can say all sorts of things about how this or that example isn't the exact same too, feel free, it won't change how silly your position is in the slightest.

IMO RAW Nork cannot go into a valkyrie or vendetta, although yet-again more poor wording and ill-thought-out rules interactions do cast a slight shadow on this.

However, since Nork is 100% fail, 100% of the time, I honestly don't give 2 shiz if my opponent would want to mount him in one.

FlipForFree wrote:My apologies i was looking at the Ogryn section, but with your logic Vlakaries can then take Ogyrn Squads because it only excludes Ogyns.

Wrong again. Tell us what an 'Ogryn Squad' consists of? It consists of Ogryns, to no suprise.

FlipForFree wrote:You have yet to produce a situation where THE RULES are in question because of a word, like Deamon, is capitolized.

Im not sure if you are aware of this sexiest_hero but there is no enforcement of the English language on message forums, but if there was peoples names would be capitolized. Because yes is someone named themselves Forums i could get confused if you were referring to forums.

And again, every instance of the word Ogryn in the book is capitalized, so what exactly does that prove? It is a name of a creature that GW has chosen to always capitalize.

The fact is, that Ogryns cannot be transported on a Valkyrie/Vendetta and Nork is described as being an Ogryn in his description as well as in his 'Bulky' special rule.