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I hope I am not stepping on egg shells by bringing up the L and the D words.

When they were killed off, I had never seen a Lost and the Damned force, so I did not `get' them. Now that I am looking at possibly making a Traitor Guard force, I have come to discover that the image I have in my mind of the army is, well, almost exactly the same as the old Lost and the Damned list. Now I can understand a fraction of why people were upset. Lamenting this, I began to wonder if the list would be possible to play using the new Guard Codex and a small number of house rules.

Much of the Guard can be left basically as Traitor-whatever, but I felt that Penal Legion would be the perfect way to represent mutants in the list. Ogryn obviously fill the Big Mutant niche, even if they are horridly over-costed. This gives you two of the four forces without any house rules. I had then thought of swapping-out Guard HQs and Elites for Chaos Space Marines ones (eg swap Primaris Psyker for Chaos Sorcerer, Storm Troopers for Chaos Space Marines), possibly adding the Defiler as a Heavy Support option. Finally, allow access to Summoned Lesser Daemons in exactly the same way as in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, with the Guard banners counting as Chaos Icons for the purposes of summoning.

Now, as declared before, I have never actually seen Lost and the Damned. I only have an abstract idea from what I have seen on paper. Is something like this watering it down too much, or would it be a pretty close approximation in firth edition?

The big problem is using counts-as chaos marines. They are S4, T4 base with a 3+ save. How do you justify the sudden loss in power?

Sorry, I had not been too clear there. I meant a proper Lost and the Damned list, not just one that looks like one (hence the reference to house rules). Actual Chaos Space Marines, not just counts-as Guardsmen.

Well, with house rules, and someone who is willing to let you play them, combining limited aspects of the CSM and the IG list will give a pretty approximate effect to the old L&D. I used to play this a bit, and had 60(!) pretty ordinary looking mutants (a cheap ebay bits buys were the best!).

If I were looking at this now, regular muties would fill your conscripts slot.

I would keep your banners and icons separate - if you are using CSM's anyway, give them some icons (but dont appy the Icon benefits to non-csms, might struggle with balance).

With some set limitations you should be able to get a workable and balanced list!

If you really need "Chaos Marine" allies in a non-Apoc game, then you'll have to pull Deathwatch or Grey Knights into the force.

I think John has it best, DH + IG is probably the best way to go in an 'official' list.

Gives you traitor marines, traitor guard, demony things (daemonhosts), and with an Inquisitor lord plus retinue you could make up a pretty good cult leader.

Jack

Thanks for the suggestions. I had been partly looking to gauge opinion here, so this is good food for thought.

Just make sure to post a lot of nice pics of your LatD army. :-)