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So I'm probably going to head over to the FLGS today to see if I can find a game of Battletech for a newbie (me).

I have a few general questions though. If anyone has any general suggestions or information, please feel free to post that as well!

Okay, so I'll proceed with the questions.


What are the most commonly-sized games? I know you can play one on one all the way up to, well, much larger games, but is there a sort of standard size? Like one lance or star vs. another lance or star? Or more than that?

I've read in other threads that lances and stars should be put together to complement each other, i.e. recon lances, heavy lances, assault lances, etc. If you are playing with only one lance size formation (say like four mechs vs. four mechs) is it more permissible to mix the formation? For example would it be normal in a 4 on 4 game to have a couple heavy or medium mechs, supported by an assault mech or a couple light mechs? What is the common way of handling this size of game (and what is effective?)


I cut my teeth on Mechwarrior 2, so most of my favorite mechs are Clan mechs. What is the best way of balancing out Clan vs. Inner Sphere engagements?

Also, I do have some Inner Sphere mechs that I like. When and how is it permissible to mix IS with Clan mechs in a unit? Would the best thing be for me to build a mercenary unit that would have access to some Clan tech?

To help out a bit here are some of my favorite mechs off the top of my head, in no particular order:

Hellbringer (Loki)
Summoner (Thor)
Timber Wolf (Mad Cat)
Firemoth (Dasher)
Dire Wolf (Daishi)
Atlas
Bushwacker
Cougar
Nova (Blackhawk)
Kit Fox (Uller)
Hunchback
Hunchback IIc
Marauder
Marauder IIc
Mad Dog (Vulture)
Black Knight
Warhawk (Masakari)
Gargoyle (Man O' War)
Zeus
Mauler
Awesome
Mist Lynx (Koshi)
Stormcrow (Ryoken)


Would it be a big deal to build a mercenary unit that combined some of these mechs? What books or time periods would be best for this (I'm guessing Clan Invasion or soon after).

Thanks a lot!

The typical "pick up" variety of games involves:
1) both sides agreeing to a Rules Level (and map)
2) both sides agreeing to a Tonnage Value or a Battle Value
3) choose 'mechs
4) play game

The whole Lance and Star organization is really more for fluff and those who are playing campaigns and have generated their own units (like you were thinking about in terms of forming a mercenary unit). I think those are the best sort of games, since you can carry over damage and improve your pilots, but you would need to find another player who would be a good GM.

Another possibility is to start with the scenarios from the scenario packs like Sword and Dragon or Wolf and Blake.

As for when you can mix Clan and IS 'mechs...well, that would be the "current" setting...er...somewhere around 3067, I think?

I think you might want to look into the Mercernary Handbooks. They give guidelines for starting a merc unit and provide some interesting reading.

Two websites you should definitely check out:

Camo Specs Online Camo Specs has thousands (if not more) of painted 'mechs on their website. Go through the website and look at the 'mechs you like. I've found that some of the 'mechs that I liked the pics of in the Tech Readout I did not like in 'Ralidium' and vice versa. Also a lot of inspiration on how to paint your 'mechs. Just be warned I'm considering a modified Clan Diamond Shark Sigma Galaxy paint scheme but I'll probably use them for Clan Diamond Shark Gamma Galaxy instead.

BattleTechWiki A good place to dig around and get some of the backstory before you dive in and start looking for a lot of out of print books.

Generally speaking, most pick-up games of CBT are anywhere from 1-on-1 up to about 12-on-12. The game starts to bog down after that, unless you a) know what you're doing offhand (not needing to look at charts), b) use time cheats (fire markers, card draw initiative, movement dice, etc), c) have a referee that both player won't argue with, and d) all of the above. D) is preferred.

That said, you can certainly play larger games. I'm currently running a CBT campaign in Cincinnati with 8 players, each having 2 Mechs. They compromise a single mercenary unit, and I provide OPFOR (so I'm running 12-20 enemy Mechs simultaneously and by myself). We get through a turn every 30-45 minutes, which is in line with larger 40K games (gunline IG vs footslogger Orks, for example).

I've also run mega-games, including a Clan Galaxy vs most of an RCT (95 Mechs and 100+ power armor vs 120 Mechs, 108 Vehicles, and 24 platoons of infantry) using BattleTech Miniatures Rules, on a gymnasium floor. Of course, it was over a 3-day weekend (playing 12-14 hours a day) and I had 3 other dedicated assistant GMs, and we had a strict turn time limit.

So really, there isn't a maximum game size. But your most COMMON games will be lance to company-level games.

Hordini wrote:What are the most commonly-sized games? I know you can play one on one all the way up to, well, much larger games, but is there a sort of standard size? Like one lance or star vs. another lance or star? Or more than that?

If you want to get it done in a reasonable time, a Lance on Lance affair would probably be the best, especially if you're playing at a venue you don't own (like your FLGS) and/or can't 'save' the game (one thing about BTech is all the hexes are numbered, so you can effectively write down where you were up to, pack it away, and then pick it up later on at any venue - that doesn't work if you're using miniature rules of course...)

Hordini wrote:I cut my teeth on Mechwarrior 2, so most of my favorite mechs are Clan mechs. What is the best way of balancing out Clan vs. Inner Sphere engagements?

If you have more time, and are playing IS vs Clan, it does depend on tech level you're playing. If you're playing 3025 era 'Mechs with standard Inner Sphere pilots (G4/P5) against Invasion era Clanners with standard Clan pilots (G3/P4) then you're going to need about a 2:1 ratio of IS:Clan 'Mechs to balance it (of equal class that is - you don't take two Atlases for every Dasher they take). Clan 'Mechs aren't twice as effective as IS ones, probably about 1.5 times, so if there are 5 Clan 'Mechs, about 8 IS 'Mechs will do.

And I started with MW2 as well. I didn't even know what the Inner Sphere was until I played MechCommander - I just thought it was all the Clans and those weird 'Draconis' people I fought in Ghost Bear's Legacy!!! @ me.

Hordini wrote:I've read in other threads that lances and stars should be put together to complement each other, i.e. recon lances, heavy lances, assault lances, etc. If you are playing with only one lance size formation (say like four mechs vs. four mechs) is it more permissible to mix the formation? For example would it be normal in a 4 on 4 game to have a couple heavy or medium mechs, supported by an assault mech or a couple light mechs? What is the common way of handling this size of game (and what is effective?)

The advice you see for balancing Lances scales indefinitely in both directions. So when you take a Recon Lance, support it with a Strike Lance or two, a Heavy/Assault Lance and then back them up with a Fire Support Lance, you do the same thing at a 'Mech level, with a Recon 'Mech, a couple of Strike 'Mechs, some Heavy/Assault 'Mechs and then a Fire Support 'Mechs.

Hordini wrote:Also, I do have some Inner Sphere mechs that I like. When and how is it permissible to mix IS with Clan mechs in a unit? Would the best thing be for me to build a mercenary unit that would have access to some Clan tech?

It's fine to mix things, and that actually solves a lot of the balance and number issues. If you take, say, 6 'Mechs a size and have 4 IS/2 Clan per side, ensuring that it's of equal class (ie. one side doesn't have 2 20-ton Clanners and the other side 2 100-ton Clanners) you won't have to worry about uneven sides or about buffing the numbers on one side to balance it (and therefore you cut down on the amount of time that the game takes).

You can build whatever unit you like really. You can justify just about anything in BTech except for a heavy Clan presence in Periphery units (not because they don't have or can't get them, but more because they wouldn't be able to maintain them). A Merc theme gives you the most open-ended ability, as it's one of the few areas of BTech that isn't defined in excruciating detail (unlike the House or Clan units, which actually have very little in the way of 'narrative scope'). You could have a Merc unit that was heavily involved in either the initial Clan invasion, the whole Operation: Bulldog thing, or just a Merc unit that's been doing period raids into the Occupation Zone over the past 20 years, gaining a working knowledge of ClanTech and some working examples which they maintain despite the expense of doing so (ClanTech is expensive to look after, but I'd assume a Merc outfit with good access to reliable ClanTech would get better contracts, thereby helping them pay to keep their ClanTech working!).

But a mixed Clan/IS force is a good idea.

Hordini wrote:Hellbringer (Loki)
Summoner (Thor)
Timber Wolf (Mad Cat)
Firemoth (Dasher)

The Loki is a piece of junk. I'm very much against the whole 'competitive' side of BTech, sticking more to the storytelling and aesthetic aspects of the universe, so I usually take bad units because I think they're cool. But even someone like me has to admit that there are some units that are just fething terrible, and the Loki is one such unit. There are Medium 'Mechs with more armour than the Loki, and there are smaller Clan 'Mechs with better firepower. The Loki is just a hopeless design.

The Summoner is underarmed and a little under armoured, but is a solid 'Mech in all other respects. There are a lot of variants, most of them with odd choices (usually to do with ammo tonnage ie. taking too much of one and not enough of another), and some people have problems with Omni-Mechs that mount fixed Jump Jets (rather than pod-mounting them), but the Thor is still a tough customer. There are good variants out there (the C stands out), so you should find a use for it. The 5/8/5 movement curve is great for a 'Mech of its size.

I once heard a comment on the Mad Cat that basically said TRO:3050 contained 4 Clan Heavy 'Mechs - the Mad Cat, and three others who's only real distinctiveness came from the fact that they weren't Mad Cats. Looking over what the Mad Cat can do, especially compared to Inner Sphere Heavy 'Mechs of the time, it's easy to see why this 'Mech was such a shock to the system. Two LRM20's, two Large Lasers and it can still move 5/8 and has great armour? This 'Mech is a really good design. Not all the variants are excellent, and if I had to pick one, it would be the Mad Cat A all the way, but it is difficult to go wrong with a Mad Cat.

The Dasher is great fun. Take the H and kill Assault 'Mechs in a single rear salvo. Hehehe. One thing I will say is never stop moving, ever, and never put yourself into a position where the enemy can kick you (as they'll take off your leg). If you win initiative, charge in and attack. If you lose initiative, run away as fast as you can go and wait 'til next turn to try again.

Hordini wrote:Dire Wolf (Daishi)
Atlas
Bushwacker
Cougar

The Dire Wolf is an absolute monster. It may not be fast, but there are so few 'Mechs capable of standing up to its power. Almost every variant is good, my personal favs being the A, the H and the Widowmaker. Just a super-scary 'Mech.

That Atlas has been eclipsed by higher-tech items as the years have gone by, but retains a lot of its charm. It's initial 3050 variants were all sorts of fail as they tried to cram too many guns into not enough heat sinks. The original is still a mighty machine, capable of felling lesser 'Mechs at short range with a single volley. There will always be better 'Mechs than the Atlas, but there will always only ever be one Atlas (if you ignore the Atlas II... *ahem*).

The Bushwhacker holds a strange place as being a 'Mech everyone who's played the games knows quite well (the 'Mech you started in in MW4, you get one pretty quickly in MW4 'Mechs, it was in the MechCommander expansion, you start with two of them in MechCommander 2) but is actually really quite terrible in actual BTech. The variant I like is the one that packs an LB-20X and a single ER Large Laser, but that's only because it's not as bad as the other two, the AC/10-ERLL-2LRM5-2Machine Gun version and whatever the other one is. It's not a very good 'Mech, and punches well below its weight, however if you do take the LB-20X/ER Large Laser version, it can punch below its weight very hard. A lot of IS Meds and Lights won't be able to take that.

There's a lot of division on the Cougar. Some people say it is too slow for a Clan Light and therefore fails as a 'Mech. Some people look at it as a great pure combat Clan Light 'Mech, and a good successor to the Puma. What everyone agrees on though is that is has amazing firepower for its size. Very few Light 'Mechs pack a pair of Large Pulse Lasers, and then back those up with LRM10's. This thing may be very heat intensive, but it is an astonishingly dangerous thing to fight against. My personal fav is the Cougar A, as it can do what the Puma can do without the overheat - and it's hard to argue with the 35-ton 'Mech that mounts two ER PPCs.

Hordini wrote:Nova (Blackhawk)
Kit Fox (Uller)
Hunchback
Hunchback IIc

The Black Hawk suffers because of a few reasons. One, no Endo or Ferro - the lack of Endo is especially telling as it limits what it can be equipped with. Fixed heat sinks that take up critical space. Slow speed for a 50-ton Clanner (it matches the Loki/Thor/Vulture/Mad Cat). Fixed Jump Jets are another issue some people have. Most of its configs are junk as well, the D being particularly offensive in its lack of offensive capability. Still, there's nothing quite like a Nova Prime at point blank range. You can only fire 7 of your 12 ER Mediums before you overheat, but damn that's a lot of firepower. Being, essentially, 'Pocket Large Lasers', the Clan ER Medium is easily one of the best weapons in the game. The damn thing mounts 12 of them. This thing punches well above its weight, it's just sad that it is so mono-dimensional in its role and use (ironic, given it's an Omni-Mech). The other problem with the Black Hawk is that the Ryoken/Storm Crow, the best 'Mech in the whole damned game, is only 5 tons more.

The Uller is actually a terrible 'Mech, and a much-maligned Clan Light. I like them personally, and you'd be hard pressed to find a 'Mech better designed for tigh-terrain Light 'Mech duelling than the Uller S (great 'Mech for Solaris campaigns), but they're under armoured and over gunned. The A is hilarious, mounting a Gauss Rifle and 2 ER Meds (same as the Shadow Cat Prime, which is 15 tons heavier), but pays for that firepower with a lack of armour and only 'ok' speed (6/9 is pretty slow for Clan Lights). The Hellion far, far outclasses it.

Hunchbacks are awesome. Beyond awesome. There are so many good versions of the Hunchback, from the original AC/20 version, to the longer-ranged AC/10 version, to the super-scary 'Swayback' with its 8 million Medium Lasers and right up to the newer versions, like the one that packs an LB-20X and Jump Jets (such a good Solaris 'Mech). They have bad rear armour - that's about the only negative I can think of. Other than that they're amazing machines. You really cannot go wrong with a Hunchback. They have an aura about them.

The Clan Hunchback does not share the IS Hunchback's aura of superiority. Instead, the Hunchback IIC is like the Loki - under armoured by a factor of LOTS, undersinked, and HEAVY under-ammoed (10 shots divided between two guns). The Hunchback IIC is designed to run up, kill something, and then die gloriously. It is BattleTech's version of the Suicide Melta Squad. It's armour is so pathetic, and its ammo load so small, that it probably won't be around more than 5-6 turns, but hopefully can cause enough damage to be worth bringing alone.

Hordini wrote:Marauder
Marauder IIc
Mad Dog (Vulture)
Black Knight

Marauders have a history, a pedigree, even. Most of this pedigree is misty-eyed old-timers looking back at the good ol' days of the Unseen rather than any actual combat worth, but that's not to say the Marauder isn't a good 'Mech. Quite the contrary, once you get past the history behind the Marauder, there are some very good versions of it out there. The original, mounting its crappy AC/5, is not one of them. There are versions with RAC5's, Gauss Rifles and all sorts of things. Look through them, there are good ones in there.

Marauder IIC is a Clan Marauder. It packs 3 Clan ERPPCs and that alone makes it worth the price of admission. A super-scary Clan Awesome essentially. Dangerous.

The Vulture suffers from heat sink issues, and what you have to remember is that its twin LRM20 banks are short-ranged weapons in the context of the Vulture, not long-ranged guns. It doesn't carry enough ammo to be a Clan Catapult, it is a short-ranged fighter, moving in with Pulse Lasers and them alpha-striking at point blank (and hopefully not shutting down). There are lots of great variants, just keep an eye on your heat, and don't punch above your weight, the armour isn't terrific.

There are lots of different versions of the Black Knight, most of them hugely head intensive (like ER PPC + 2 Large Lasers + 4 Med Lasers heat intensive). It's a good 'Mech when you ride the heat-curve. Good firepower, decent speed, good armour - there's even a variant with an axe!

Hordini wrote:Warhawk (Masakari)
Gargoyle (Man O' War)
Zeus
Mauler

Masakari's are Awesome's in speed-laced coke mixed with coke-laced speed. So much firepower. The Masakari C is one of the more feared 'Mechs in the game on account of the twin ER PPCs and twin Large Pulse Lasers, added to a significant heat capacity and a Targeting Computer. A monster of a 'Mech, and it can keep up most IS Heavies on account of its excellent speed.

Man'O'Wars are... hmm... how to put it. There are two jokes that get made about the Man'O'War:

Q: Why were the Loki and Man'O'War invented?
A: So the Inner Sphere would have something they could defeat!

Q: What Inner Sphere 'Mech is the Man'O'War most like?
A: The CGR-1A1 Charger of course!

And these are true, from a certain point of view. It is under gunned, it is a poor Assault 'Mech, it is vastly outclassed by the Mad Cat (which is only 5 tons lighter) in just about every way, but as I said, only from a certain point of view. A big facet of Clan warfare is the use of infantry, their Elementals. Omni-Mechs are designed as APCs for Elementals, and when a 'Mech is carrying Elementals it wants two things:

1. To get there quickly.
2. To concentrate its weapons on the arms as the Elementals ride on the torso, preventing torso weapons them from shooting.

If you look at the Man'O'War in that context, suddenly it makes sense. It's an 80-ton 'Mech that moves 5/8, virtually all of its guns are located in the arms, and it carries Elementals. In fact, a lot of original Invasion-Era Clan 'Mechs are like that:

Dasher Prime - guns in the arms.
Black Hawk Prime - Guns in the arms.
Ryoken Prime - Guns in the arms.
Vulture Prime - Main guns in the arms (LRM20's used at short range once the Elementals have dismounted)
Koshi - Guns in arms.
Puma - Guns in arms.
Daishi - (Lot of) Guns in the arms.
Masakari - Guns in the arms.
Gladiator - Guns in the arms.

They have the odd token torso weapon (the flamer on the Puma, the ER Med on the Ryoken Prime), but for the most part their guns are all arm mounted. From this point of view, the Man'O'War makes perfect sense, and is a great battletaxi for that reason. Not a great 'Mech, but a great transport.

Zeus is the Inner Sphere 'Sniper' Mech. Once it ditched the AC/5 and got itself some ER weapons it became a lovely thing. Not the best 'Mech of all time, but a reliable, consistent 'Mech with a well earned reputation for being good to have in almost any fight.

The Mauler is a joke. It was a Draconis Combine attempt to make a really cool assault 'Mech that Epic Failed like no 'Mech had ever Epic Failed before. Originally called the Dobuku (or something similar), if you punched it hard enough in a 'special' area (yes, the 'Mechs groin) the ammo-explosion sensors would be triggered and engage the auto-eject. So if you punched one in the nuts its head would fly off. The Mauler was an 'improvement' on this design, but that is relative. It's better than a Dobuku, but better in the sense of cutting off a single finger is better than losing your whole hand. There is one - only one! - good Mauler variant, the MAL-3R. Twin LB-10X's (with 20 shots a piece, giving each gun 10 slug and 10 cluster rounds), two LRM15's (16 shots each) and a Small Laser (just 'cause). C3 Slave, if you're using those rules, makes it even better. Excellent armour (especially compared to the other thin-skinned Maulers), and it even has Jump Jets! It's a tinderbox, not mounting CASE, but then again it has an IS XL engine so an ammo explosion’ll still cripple it, only really matters in campaigns. The Mauler is bad, overall, the MAL-3R works. And from a personal preference, given my first experience with Maulers was MechCommander Gold, they're pretty fun and look cool!

Hordini wrote:Awesome
Mist Lynx (Koshi)
Stormcrow (Ryoken)

One of the best Inner Sphere 'Mechs around, the Awesome has as many good variants as the Hunchback. The original is great, spitting out 3 PPCs a turn. The upgraded one with 4 PPCs is a nightmare, there's even a Heavy PPC version. There's even a PPC LRM15 Large Laser version!! Amazing armour (if a little overzealous on rear armour) and amazing firepower. Hard to go wrong.

The Koshi does not belong in BTech games. It's a recon 'Mech, is armed like a recon 'Mech and works like a recon 'Mech. A fighting 'Mech they are not. I think they look cool, and the miniature is so cute and tiny, but it's not something you'd really want to be in.

And finally the Ryoken. If God had a 'Mech, he'd pilot a Ryoken. In fact, I think it was the Ryoken that was made in his image rather than us. There is no other way to describe this 'Mech other than 'Perfect'. It stands above all other Light and Medium 'Mechs (and quite a few Heavies and even some Assaults) as the absolute pinnacle of 'Mech design. Fast (6/9) for a 55-tonner, loads of armour, great weapon space, perfect heat dissipation. The Ryoken Prime and C are just death on legs. It will always remain my first and last choice in any 'bring whatever' battle. I own three, and there are few 'Mechs I have more of (I have more Zeuses than Ryokens and... that's it). Take the Ryoken. Take two. Take five. They are just the best things in the game.

Hordini wrote:Would it be a big deal to build a mercenary unit that combined some of these mechs? What books or time periods would be best for this (I'm guessing Clan Invasion or soon after).

If you're including Clan 'Mechs than yeah, it sorta has to be post-Invasion Era. If we're talking a Merc Command that's been around long enough (and been successful enough) to both possess and be able to maintain Clan 'Mechs, we're looking post Operation Bulldog/3058-59-ish. Around the start of the Federated Commonwealth Civil War in the 3060's. And the later you in the timeline go the more likely it gets.

Hordini wrote:Thanks a lot!

Your welcome. Hope some of my rantings helped!!!

Attack'a the Dakka double post!!!!!!

Thank you everyone! And Thank You with a capital T and Y to HBMC. You are a gentleman and a scholar, sir.

I'm very sad to hear about the Hellbringer.
Is there really no hope for this mech? I may pick up a model of it anyway, just 'cause I do like it.

How would this be for a starting lance?
Firemoth (Dasher)
Bushwacker (or Hellbringer, maybe?)
Summoner (Thor)
Dire Wolf (Daishi)

Would having the Bushwacker or Hellbringer sort of balance out having the other more effective mechs (Firemoth, Dire Wolf) in the same lance?

Hordini wrote:

How would this be for a starting lance?
Firemoth (Dasher)
Bushwacker (or Hellbringer, maybe?)
Summoner (Thor)
Dire Wolf (Daishi)

Would having the Bushwacker or Hellbringer sort of balance out having the other more effective mechs (Firemoth, Dire Wolf) in the same lance?

First off those four would be an semi effective star. IMO, stars and lances should have a clear cut goal before the models even hit the table. Usaully a star/lance will fit into one of three categories.Those categories are Recon, Assault, and Mobile. Then again a star/lance can fulfill multiple roles like Mobile Assault, or even Assault Recon.

Of course it all depends on which role you foresee the star/lance doing. Pick a role and run with it is usually what I do.

Thanks! By semi-effective, do you mean it would be decent, or it wouldn't cut it and should be changed?


Should Stars and Lances still have a clear-cut goal if you're only playing with one Star or Lance? I was thinking if you're only playing with one Star or Lance, then the mechs should have specific roles (i.e. take a couple medium/heavy mechs, a light scouting mech, and an assault mech - or something like that?)

Danke schön!

This depends a lot on the Tonnage Value or Battle Value you start with. Given 250 tons, you may opt to take 5-6 lighter 'mechs or 3 heavier ones. This is up to you. Same with Battle Value. You may opt to go with fewer 'mechs with high Battle Values or more 'mechs with lesser Battle Values.

As with any wargame, make sure your units support each other. That means: don't spread them out and make sure they can concentrate fire on the same target (unless you are playing with Clan rules, I guess). Unless the situation presents a better opportunity, you will typically move your slowest unit first and your fastest units last, in order to try to outflank the enemy (and slower units tend to have more armor, which allows them to take a bit more of a beating). It does you no good to send your fast unit out in front of the rest of your lance unsupported, only to get it cut down by combined fire from the other player.

Also, take your time moving your units. It will take a bit of practice to learn how best to maximize the to-hit modifier for your opponent while minimizing your own modifier.

As had been said already, most games are in the 1-3 lances/stars per side range (weighted heavily on the 1 lance/star for pick up games), but with the Battleforce rules (recently rereleased in the Strategic Operations book), you can have some pretty large engagements without a ton of trouble.

When it comes to balancing Clan vs. IS mechs, it depends a lot on what era you're playing in. If you're playing in the 3050s then the Clan mechs will have to be outnumbered slightly for it to be balanced (especially if you're using clan standards for your mechwarriors who tend to be more skilled as well). If you're playing FedCom civil war era, the tech starts to even out a little bit, but clanners are still slightly better. In the current timeline, Jihad, there are inner sphere units that rival the clans, particularly Word of Blake, what's left of Comstar and some mercenaries.

Same goes for having Clan mechs in a mercenary unit. The further ahead you move in the timeline, the easier it is to find Clan Mechs outside of Clan territory.

I really recommend playing the game for a while before building your own force though. Get a feel for the units in the boxed set (around 3025-3030s era), play some games with clan tech, get some more maps (or make your own). Get into the game for a little while and then design your own mercenary outfit. You'll have a better idea what you want in there and how you want to use it after you've played for a bit.

There's no risk in this strategy because you don't have to buy minis to play. So hold off on the big metal purchases until after you've got some games under your belt. Same thing with books. Start with the boxed set, maybe pick up Total Warfare but hold off on anything else at first.

There are so many different directions you can go with Battletech after the boxed set that it's hard to choose which one you want to go with. You could get one of the starter books. You could get Total Warfare and the Tech Manual. You could get some sourcebooks (like the mercenary field manuals). You could get some Tech Readouts. You could go a lot of different ways. And the way you choose to go at first effects what era you're playing in, what rules you're using, what minis you want to buy.

Just get started and once you have the boxed set in your hands and you've played a few games, you'll know what you want to do next. It may be totally different from what you think you want to do next right now. You may play some games and decide that you want to jump ahead to the Jihad. Or you may decide you want to work your up through the timeline (starting with Tech Readout 3039 and Starter Book: Sword and Dragon). Or you may decide to create a mercenary unit circa 3061 with some some stolen Clan tech and gear up for the FedCom civil war.

But play for a bit before you commit yourself too heavily to one option.

Tell me Hordini, 'cause this will help to gague the level of what I'm telling you, but how long have you been playing BTech and how many 'Mechs do you already own?

As to your proposed Lance, it's pretty funny actually as it's a Lance with no IS 'Mechs, making it an understrength Star. What I will say that in the game of making friends and influencing people, showing up to a game with a Daishi in tow probably isn't the best way to break the ice, no matter how old or new to the game you are.

I'd go for an Inner Sphere Assault, a good Clan Heavy (Mad Cat, Thor, Night Gyr), a decent IS Medium (take the Bushwacker, take the variant I mentioned, and hunt the enemy's light 'Mechs with it) and then a good Clan Light (Dasher, Puma, Cougar, the amazing Hellion).

That way you won't be going RAR CLANS!!!!!!! at them from the word go, nor shoving one of the most dangerous 'Mechs in the game down their throats without warning.

I like how they named it a Mauler when the stock variant relies on 4 AC2s to do damage, ugh.

Also, about the Mauler, was the Daboku created before the Mauler or was it added into the game afterward for some background material?

I think it was a kinda retcon - the two 'Mechs are the same. They look the same, they have roughly the same weapons and loadout, they just wanted to add it into the fluff a bit earlier. I mean, using a Daboku in game makes very little difference to its performance - there aren't actually any rules for punching it in the nuts - it was just more a fluff thing when they were cleaning up and expanding the whole timeline between the 4th War and the War of '39.

The entry for the Daboku and the Mauler on the Battletech wiki explains the name change:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Daboku

i used to LOVE Btech, sadly the game fell off the map in my area some years ago. i recently had the urge to get a few mechs and paint them up, i played a few games with a friend but he didnt get into it, nor did anyone else i showed the game to. i never really followed the fluff of Btech, i made a sort of merc force of 10 mechs with a "commander" mech. i still own them, plus i have total warfare, my mechs are:

T-wolf (commander)
pillager
daishi
Stalker
Atlas
puma
Uller
Canis
Hollander
Javelin
Hanyku

i painted them in a striking yellow/blue scheme with skull faces. i have them on my shelf.

As an official Battletech Demonstrator, I have to say this:

DON'T START WITH CLAN TECH.

Not because it is really powerful and fun, but because there is a LOT to keep track of.

If you start bare bones 3025 tech, it is much easier to upgrade into the other tech levels.

Get a few (dozen) games under your belt using simple 3025 tech, then upgrade to the Star League/Inner Sphere upgraded units. Then rip into some serious Clan stuff.

The other bonus this gives you is learning how to balance a game a bit better.

Catalyst Demo Team snobs... uhh... oh hi there Mattlov!!! Did I type that out loud?? I meant 'Good ol' Catalyst Demo Team members'. Yeah....

*Slaps H.B.M.C. with a cold squid*

Hordini wrote:Thanks! By semi-effective, do you mean it would be decent, or it wouldn't cut it and should be changed?


Should Stars and Lances still have a clear-cut goal if you're only playing with one Star or Lance?

pombe wrote:As with any wargame, make sure your units support each other.

Pretty much this.

I try to make sure that all of 'Mechs in a Lance can move around the same speed as the rest of the Lance. If I don't do that, then I try to make sure that other 'Mechs can reach that far.

Hordini wrote:I'm very sad to hear about the Hellbringer.
Is there really no hope for this mech? I may pick up a model of it anyway, just 'cause I do like it.

I've got one, and I'll end up with 3 when the Clan Intro Box comes out and they're in plastic. I like the look of the Loki, even if it is terrible. And if you do custom configs (which I normally don't, but for Omni-Mechs it makes sense) you can eek out some half-way decent weapon sets - if you do I'd err on the side of long-ranged firepower, maybe energy-based with a TargComp, as you do not have the armour to be a brawler 'Mech. The Loki is far too thin skinned for that.

I do also kinda agree with Mr. Mattlov about the Clan Tech. It is often better to start with the lower tech 3025 Inner Sphere stuff. It teaches you to respect heat management far more, and also respect the mighty Medium Laser (easily one of the most efficient and effective weapons in the game, ton for ton). Then, when you finally start using 3050+ technology, both IS and Clan, it'll be more fun. You'll be shocked at the difference that Double Heat Sinks make to the game.

Hi guys, not to highjack the thread but I've got a question in regards to balancing Battletech battles.

I used to do this by tonnage but I keep coming across the terms BV (Battle value) and BV2 (apparently a tweaked BV). Where might I actually find these BV vlaues?

Battle Values should be on all the record sheets and the official website I think has a listing. BV2 is still being finalised.

Battle Value is sort an approximation of worth, not a points system like 40K.

Thanks for the info H.B.M.C.!

The intro box sheets do not come with BVs and I already own the old 3025 and 3050 Record Sheets without BVs. I assume that's all that has been changed in regards to the older and newer record sheets right? Except for cosmetic changes.

I think all point systems tend to be an approximation of worth. As Battletech play can be heavily influenced by the choice of complementary mechs, opposing mech, terrain and mission, I'd say the BV value of a mech would 'potentionally fluctuate' more than say, Ork Boy 'X' in a mob.

I assume it's a better comparison that tonnage?

It's better, but you have to keep in mind that it tends to look at things in a vacuum sometimes. You'll get a Clan Light that's got the same BV as a IS Heavy due simply to the virtue of the Clan one having better tech, but if you played them against one another they won't be equal. That's what you've got to watch out for.

BV1, the original one, favoured Jump Jets over armour, so something like the Night Gyr, a very dangerous Clan Heavy 'Mech (better than a Mad Cat IMO) had an insane high BV, higher than a lot of Assault 'Mechs, but some other bigger 'Mechs were better than it. It was just that the BV system valued Jump Jets. BV2 puts the value back on armour, so heavy armour increases BV by quite a bit rather than Jump Jets doing it, but you still get the same odd situations where a 'Mech has a higher value yet you know just by looking at the stats that it isn't as good as something that's 'cheaper'.

Points in 40K are done as a comparison. You have benchmark models (Tactical Marine, Guardian, Guardsmen, Firewarrior, Ork Boy, etc.) and then everything is based off of that benchmark. So something better than a 16 point Marine is worth 18, something worse is worth 12, and so on. It's not the same in BTech. Two same-tonnage 'Mechs with the same guns can have wildy different BV's thanks to think that aren't directly related to their ability to kill things, and 'Mechs that are very differnt in role or ability can have the same BV. And then the ability of the pilots further modifies that value.

It's quite complex, is not perfect (and the creators acknowledge this), and will never be able to 'balance' the games completely. Just don't try to use it like you would a 'points limit' and use it instead as a detailed-yet-rough guide to the approximate values of each unit, and you'll be ok.

I've played one game of real Battletech and several games of MegaMek. I know a decent bit about the universe from having played Mechwarrior 2 and 4: Mercenaries, and I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that I played Mechwarrior: Dark Ages for a short time. I've also watched the Battletech cartoon and had the Bushwacker toy when I was little.

I own zero mechs at this point though. I'll probably pick up the boxed set when I go back to the States in the fall, but I kind of wanted to just get a single lance here to learn the rules with and socialize a bit with some of the local gamers (and practice my German ). If I do that, I may try to stick with 3025 tech as you guys are suggesting.

And also, a lot of my interest in Clan mechs stems more from the fact that I just plain like their look a lot more than a lot of the IS mechs. I don't want to be "that guy" and I'm not about using Clan tech just because it's "über" or whatever. I'll definitely take into account what you said about the Dire Wolf, H.B.M.C. I'll probably still get one at some point anyway though, at least to paint up.



Oh, and can you tell me a bit about the Clan boxed set that's coming out? When is it coming and what type of stuff and what mechs are going to be included in it?

Thanks!

There will be 15 of the original 16 OmniMechs in it (I don't remember which got dropped, I think it was the Dasher) and 5 Points of Elementals. It is designed as an add-on for the Starter Box and has scenarios in it designed with those units in mind.

No release date has been set yet, but I would bet a GenCon release to be possible.

Should be a good year at GenCon for Battletech. 25th Anniversary, baby!

Hordini wrote:I've played one game of real Battletech and several games of MegaMek. I know a decent bit about the universe from having played Mechwarrior 2 and 4: Mercenaries, and I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that I played Mechwarrior: Dark Ages for a short time. I've also watched the Battletech cartoon and had the Bushwacker toy when I was little.

The BattleTech cartoon is an... interesting way of looking at BTech. Not at all accurate, but it was kinda fun. The characters from the cartoon are canon characters in BTech and, in fact, the cartoon itself is canon, existing in-universe as a poorly-reviewed holodrama of the real Summerset Strikers. The really funny part is that the main hero from the cartoon is the current leader of the whole Lyran Commonwealth!!!

And a friend of mine had a toy that was basically the original Warhammer 'Mech. That was a great toy.

Hordini wrote:I own zero mechs at this point though. I'll probably pick up the boxed set when I go back to the States in the fall, but I kind of wanted to just get a single lance here to learn the rules with and socialize a bit with some of the local gamers (and practice my German ). If I do that, I may try to stick with 3025 tech as you guys are suggesting.

It's just the best way to learn. You can worry about Pulse Lasers, Streak Missile Launchers, Gauss Rifles and LB-X Autocannons later. Learn to use (and respect) the older tech and 'Mechs first. It also gives you a good base for comparison between older and newer 'Mechs, and is especially interesting when you see that some 'Mechs are still just as good now as when they first rolled off the assembly lines (Hunchback and Grasshopper being two good examples).

Hordini wrote:And also, a lot of my interest in Clan mechs stems more from the fact that I just plain like their look a lot more than a lot of the IS mechs. I don't want to be "that guy" and I'm not about using Clan tech just because it's "über" or whatever. I'll definitely take into account what you said about the Dire Wolf, H.B.M.C. I'll probably still get one at some point anyway though, at least to paint up.

Oh definately get one. I've got three, and they're fun to play around it. Just expect some dirty looks if you throw it at someone without warning. They're very scary 'Mechs, mounting more weapons in a single arm than most 'Mechs have across every location!

Hordini wrote:Oh, and can you tell me a bit about the Clan boxed set that's coming out? When is it coming and what type of stuff and what mechs are going to be included in it?

Clan box will be the best way to get Omni-Mechs quickly. As Mattlov said, it has 15 'Mechs in it, which is a full Trinary, and the only original Clan 'Mech it is missing is the Dasher (a shame really - it's so much more generally useful than the Koshi, which is in there for some reason). And you get a full Star of Elementals as well, so it is a significant force to get in a single box. I plan on getting two of them when they're released as they'll essentially finish off the two Clusters that I have and give me so much infantry it's just silly (10 Stars or so).

A StarterBox and a Clan Box is a huge amount of stuff to start with - two IS Companies and one complete Clan Trinary. You could play with just that for a long time. You add in a few Lances and Stars of your fav units, and you'll have two very respectable forces.

Mattlov wrote:There will be 15 of the original 16 OmniMechs in it (I don't remember which got dropped, I think it was the Dasher) and 5 Points of Elementals. It is designed as an add-on for the Starter Box and has scenarios in it designed with those units in mind.

No release date has been set yet, but I would bet a GenCon release to be possible.

Should be a good year at GenCon for Battletech. 25th Anniversary, baby!

Is it confirmed you get a full star of elementals? I previously heard you got one point of five elementals.

Hordini wrote:I've played one game of real Battletech and several games of MegaMek. I know a decent bit about the universe from having played Mechwarrior 2 and 4: Mercenaries, and I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that I played Mechwarrior: Dark Ages for a short time. I've also watched the Battletech cartoon and had the Bushwacker toy when I was little.

I own zero mechs at this point though. I'll probably pick up the boxed set when I go back to the States in the fall, but I kind of wanted to just get a single lance here to learn the rules with and socialize a bit with some of the local gamers (and practice my German ). If I do that, I may try to stick with 3025 tech as you guys are suggesting.

And also, a lot of my interest in Clan mechs stems more from the fact that I just plain like their look a lot more than a lot of the IS mechs. I don't want to be "that guy" and I'm not about using Clan tech just because it's "über" or whatever. I'll definitely take into account what you said about the Dire Wolf, H.B.M.C. I'll probably still get one at some point anyway though, at least to paint up.

If you want to be clan from the outset be clan. I noticed straight away you used the proper names for the clan mechs evwen though in game most use the spheroid names.

Despite what anyone says there is no steeper laearning curve with playing clan. Sure the tech is superior but firing a clan LRM20 usies the same rfules as ther Inner Sphere LRM10 that weighs the same. Still you should take at least a cursory look at 3025, it plays different and the 3050+ games stem from them. Youn cannot really play clan until you undersdtand how spheroid mechs work and are organised, this is because despite your tech advantage spheoids have numbers and many of even the basic designs can be really nasty if you dont know what you are looking for.

One final word of warning, in battletech many of the actual set configuarions dont match what you see when looking at the mech, and many clan configuarions and spheroid designs are inefficiently or poorly designed. Some drastically so, dont waste time looking for hidden advantages in every configuration and a role for every mech design, some are quite genuinely crap and that doesnt make them any less expensive in points.