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Orlanth wrote:
Despite what anyone says there is no steeper laearning curve with playing clan. Sure the tech is superior but firing a clan LRM20 usies the same rfules as ther Inner Sphere LRM10 that weighs the same.

True, at it's most basic it is similar. But do you have Artemis? Firing through an ECM bubble? What is the proper Attacker Movement Modifier for having used my MASC this turn? My target still has undeployed battle armor, too?

You don't deal with that in 3025. Learn the hard basics before moving on. Same as playing 40K. Your first game was probably simple, 750-1000 points, kill the other guy. It wasn't a 2500 point game using CityFight rules with a side table or Kill Team to determine final objectives. Walk before you run.

Mechwarrior 2 was completely from a Clan point of view so it used all of the Clan names of the mechs (no IS names in sight in fact).

It was my introduction into the world of B-tech as well so I always use the Clan names for the Clan mechs, except for in character play.

I can't wait for that Clan box! Dropping the Fire Moth but keeping the Mist Lynx is rather bleh, though I like that you get Elementals.

My introduction to Battletech was through the Jade Phoenix trilogy that used the Clan names but I still use the Inner Sphere names. However I prefer the Inner Sphere over the Clans. More variety I guess.

The Inner Sphere variety is great. As is being the underdog part. Normal humans vs the genetically engineered warriors of the Clans. With the whole genetic superiority being a load of bunk of course. Looking at sibko drop-out rates it's clear that there's no clear genetic superiority, and in the end it's all down to the fact that Clan mechwarriors are trained almost from birth, and exist in a constant combat environment. No wonder their pilot averages are G3/P4!!

Reading the Jade Phoenix trilogy (or any of the other JF books written by that author) it's rather hard to prefer the Clans. I don't know if it's deliberately done but all those characters are just not likeable. Not even Horse or Diana Pryde can get a glimmer of sympathy from me. In fact, if one of them died I wouldn't care. Maybe the most likeable of them all is Joanna, but maybe that's because I've got a soft spot for cranky, mean spirited horses in RL. She reminds me of one.

Just of the top of my head I don't think any of the Clan main characters from the books appeal to me. Not the JF ones, certainly not the SJ ones though Tiaret is a nice supporting character IMO thoguh maybe a bit too much 'Victor's Evantha Fetladral'.
The Wolves are a bit harder to rate. Both Phelan and Natasha Kerensky are too much IS. Vlad is a cretin. Maybe Ulric is the most likeable one (though not a main character but a main support character). He's Clan but not above bending the rules a little, manipulative in a non disgusting way. Fiercely loyal to his own ideals and Clan though his methods are rather circumspect.

Still, MW2 has amde me have a soft spot for the Clans even though I mainly play IS. Maybe it's because I was the main Clan character in that game.

Jade Falcon 4eva!!!!

I am a loyal servant of Marthe Pryde... except the bastards killed her off in the last source book, so I was a loyal servant of Marthe Pryde.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Jade Falcon 4eva!!!!

I am a loyal servant of Marthe Pryde... except the bastards killed her off in the last source book, so I was a loyal servant of Marthe Pryde.

Propably was for the better. She was part of the Invasion generation and therefore getting a bit advanced in age ( at least the way how Clans think of age ). Old geezers are supposed to burn out before they are pushed to Solahma units to fade away.

And while talking about "burning away". I´m still pissed about the way how they killed the Black Widow . "I am Jade Falcon"- maneuver indeed .

H.B.M.C. wrote:Jade Falcon 4eva!!!!

I am a loyal servant of Marthe Pryde... except the bastards killed her off in the last source book, so I was a loyal servant of Marthe Pryde.

Seyla!

A-P wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Jade Falcon 4eva!!!!

I am a loyal servant of Marthe Pryde... except the bastards killed her off in the last source book, so I was a loyal servant of Marthe Pryde.

Propably was for the better. She was part of the Invasion generation and therefore getting a bit advanced in age ( at least the way how Clans think of age ). Old geezers are supposed to burn out before they are pushed to Solahma units to fade away.

And while talking about "burning away". I´m still pissed about the way how they killed the Black Widow . "I am Jade Falcon"- maneuver indeed .

Speaking of old, how old was Natasha anyway? I was always a fan of the Dragoons in general and the Widows in particular (yes, I'm that guy, sue me), but you have to admit that both of them were going to die sooner or later. I'm more pissed about Wolfe's death to be honest. Killed by traitors working for terrorists while your world burns and your unit is systematically destroyed (almost) is hardly the best way to go. I'm not saying the Jihad storyline isn't good. It's quite good actually. I just hope the ending of this war (when the new "heroes" start to show up) is worth it.

I believe Natasha was around 90 when she died.

Mattlov wrote:I believe Natasha was around 90 when she died.

I just went and looked it up. You were close, she was 84. Damn clanners.

According to this she was 84.

I know this thread is a bit old but I'd like to add a couple of recommendations for BT noobs...

1) Buy Heavy Metal Pro(HMP)!! Even if you are not going to design your own mechs it gives you all of the Record Sheets. HMP also calculates BVs for you that can include Gunnery and Piloting skills which should help keeps your games balanced.

2) Play the Faction you like not what others say will be easier to learn.
If all the advanced rules seem scary buy the Starter Set first and play some games with the silly plastic figures and the simple start rules. Also Ironwind mechs are not cheap so why would you want to waste money on mechs you don't want...

3) Play the Table-Top Mini rules instead of the Map sheets. The game scale and overall feel is far better with real terrain. (HMP gives you the option to print sheets in inches or centimeters).


ENJOY!!!

Mapsheets vs terrain is a personal preference thing - I don't think you can claim one is better than the other.

I prefer the mapsheets because it makes everything digital. I never have to have a LOS argument or worry about someone moving something too far or too little because the map sheets take away those 'rubbery' items and give me a grid to work on that is always 100% exact and always 100% accurate. I also think mapsheet play is more 'proper' for BTech - it's the way things were when it started.

As far as Heavy Metal Pro, there are a few issues with it:

1. Current edition is out of date by a considerable margin, yet if you get it now you'll still have to pay for the next update. Not cool.
2. The record sheet PDF's take care of your 'Mech needs ('cept TRO's 3060, 3067 and 3075, although '75 is coming soon).
3. There are free programs out there like Solaris Skunk Works that are more up to date and are free.

Mattlov wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Jade Falcon 4eva!!!!

I am a loyal servant of Marthe Pryde... except the bastards killed her off in the last source book, so I was a loyal servant of Marthe Pryde.

Seyla!

Seyla.

Speaking of free alternatives to the Heavy Metal Pro design program, me and my friend used to rock Drawing Board. It's discontinued now (but it's not like the rules have really changed) but you can still find it kicking around. Plus there are design files for most everything, ever.

Anyways I found Lords of the Battlefield to be one of the better communities available, but then again I didn't keep up to date with the newer stuff since the Wizkids takeover:
http://www.lordsofthebattlefield.com/forum/index.php

Good luck getting into the game, back when I was deeply involved with it I hugely enjoyed the hobby, especially the Mech design aspect of it.

EDIT:
A bunch of different Drawing Board download link sources:
http://depot.scrapping.cc/about.iface (seems to have all the design files too)
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/weirdozone/wargames/battletech/drawingboard.html
http://megamek.sourceforge.net/idx.php?pg=links (under Editors)

I still use Drawing Board most of the time, but it hasn't been updated in a long time. Luckily, a fan of Drawing Board has made his own 'Mech Creator called Solaris Skunk Works, and it's basically Drawing Board 2.0. Very good program, up to date, with vehicle and battle armour versions being made.

There's a thread about it at the official CBT forums. It's all Java based and 100% free.

Oh snap that's awesome. I'm a big fan of Java and it looks like their save file format is plain XML which helps for integrating it with other apps.
I guess I miss cool things like this when I get out of touch with their community, but definitely a good find.

Some times the Drawing Board mechs don't transition into Megamek...:(

Quick question (or what I hope is quick) regarding game play.

I'm an original FASA Battletech second editon player from way back (circa 1985). I played the game up through the Clan Invasion and the 3055 sourcebook before stopping.

Have they changed the basic (and advanced) gameplay significantly?

What I mean is there were some 'clunky' parts to the game, like building a mech with all SRM launchers and maxed armor, so that you rolled location for every missile, thus increasing your chances of a 2 (crit center) or 12 (head). Likewise, even a 4 on 4 mech battle could take hours and hours for you to get through the armor, internal structure, and finally finish off the mechs.

Have any of these basic structures changed in the new rules? Are they streamlined in any way? I'd like to get back into the game, but don't want to spend hours in "small" engagements.

Thanks in advance!

No, the rules haven't really changed since the game came out. It is the way it is designed. All those things you said are still the rules. Easier way to avoid that is to play stock units, and not custom ones.

That being said, the latest book STRATEGIC OPERATIONS has rules for Battleforce. This is for MASSIVE games. It is the equivalent of Epic 40K for Battletech. The game will still take a long time, but you can have regiments face off against each other.

The other alternate rule set is called QUICK STRIKE BATTLETECH, which uses the Battleforce rules for individual units. THere are no 'Mech sheets, just small stat blocks, and a 'Mech can (and will) die very quickly. With quick Strike, you can do company sized engagements (12 'Mechs per side) in less than an hour.

i went down to my local comic store the other day because they still have a rack of battletech miniatures there. got a bowman, snow fox and osirus. all three are archived on ironwinds. saved myself about 10 bucks a piece.



oh, and i downloaded solaris skunk werks the other day. what a kick ass program, and its free!

It's basically the spiritual successor to The Drawing Board. Very cool program.

The group I play with at the local store just do pick-up games. They pick a BV value and run with it. I think they tend to go with 5,000 points.
The BV system seems to do a good job of evening out the Clan/Inner Sphere difference.

OMG theres a Battle tech thread!!!! Awesome
I love dakka more and more.
Ive played Battletech since 93,and been a rabit fan since then. I have around 80 models, most of the books. Never got into the stuff after 3055 very much cause it started getting cheesy.
I did pick up the Rules of Warfare book and liked how they evened out the tech gap in IS and Clan mechs.

my fave mech is a custom 75 ton, with 12 med pulse lasers. ( clan tech of course)
My fave star is a Medium Star,
- Vixen
- Puma
- Ryoken
- Black Hawk ( one loaded with lasers the other an LRM support mech)
My fave lance is the "Five Fingers of Death"
- Five Hollanders
though not technically a lance i used a little dramatic licence, and modeled the unit after a star league unit. Something Hussars. Basically it was 10 light mechs with an ER Large Laser and a small laser.
The unit was famous for working as a team and taking turns harassing larger mechs with a rolling flank maneuver.
Anyways, I cant wait to chat about the good old days and all the cool stuff i likely missed in the twilight days of FASA.
Black Thorns rool!!!!

Lance v Lance or Star v Star (or some Lance v Star) games are the most common...and easily manageable. Maybe a double would be ok. Like mentioned above anything bigger than 10-12 mechs per side gets cumbersome.

ive baddled here and there with streamlining the BT rules, or finding a new rules system completely, to make much larger games possible.

Theres a game system called Shock Force that has full unit creation rules, allowing it to be used with any genre or time setting. Its made for fairly large games as it is pretty quick play. Sometime soon Im going to draw up some stats for a couple mechs using their rules for light, medium, and heavy vehicles and see how it runs.

I may also use the Mechwarrior minis instead of the metal BT minis. Although the MW mechs take a lot of liberties with the looks of the mechs I like the larger scale and they are much cheaper than the metals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jay-Man McDougall wrote:OMG theres a Battle tech thread!!!! Awesome
I love dakka more and more.
Ive played Battletech since 93,and been a rabit fan since then. I have around 80 models, most of the books. Never got into the stuff after 3055 very much cause it started getting cheesy.


I did pick up the Rules of Warfare book and liked how they evened out the tech gap in IS and Clan mechs.

.
Anyways, I cant wait to chat about the good old days and all the cool stuff i likely missed in the twilight days of FASA.

I was quite active in BT around that same time...say 1992-96. A friend of mine introduced me to it in high school. It was solely responsible for my minis addiction which has continued (with some breaks) ever since.

My biggest regret...back in 2002 when I met my wife, (and we moved in together & soon had our 1st kid) I gave away all my BT minis. I had well over 100...all from the "unseen" days of FASA. I had all the great ones...Marauder, Battlemaster, MAD IIc, Behemoth, etc. All the stuff people are paying huge money for on ebay now. I even had numerous conversions. At the time I was starting a family and moving a good bit away from all my friends, so I figured Id never play again and gave them away. Didnt it figure a couple years later I got back into minis and gaming...only to find that the lawsuits had destroyed FASA and all my fave designs were dubbed "unseen"and became highly collectible and valuable...and the new versions werent nearly as cool as the origionals. Needless to say I was pissed.

Mad4Minis wrote:
My biggest regret...back in 2002 when I met my wife, (and we moved in together & soon had our 1st kid) I gave away all my BT minis. I had well over 100...all from the "unseen" days of FASA. I had all the great ones...Marauder, Battlemaster, MAD IIc, Behemoth, etc. All the stuff people are paying huge money for on ebay now. I even had numerous conversions. At the time I was starting a family and moving a good bit away from all my friends, so I figured Id never play again and gave them away. Didnt it figure a couple years later I got back into minis and gaming...only to find that the lawsuits had destroyed FASA and all my fave designs were dubbed "unseen"and became highly collectible and valuable...and the new versions werent nearly as cool as the origionals. Needless to say I was pissed.

Same thing for me! I moved about 1000 miles in '05, and when I was packing up I came across my old minis case. It had over 120 Mechs and about 40 vehicles in it, all of which were purchased between ~89 - 98, back when you bought mechs by the 4 pack in pre constructed lances. I just gave the whole thing, including all of the TROs to a fried as I hadn't played in at least 5 years. He ebayed the whole lot and got some good money for them considering it was really heavy in the unseen mechs.

I wish I hadn't given them away now, but from reading about the timeline (I stopped around 3055) it seems like the whole word of blake thing pretty much ruined everything. :(:(

Mattlov wrote:No, the rules haven't really changed since the game came out. It is the way it is designed. All those things you said are still the rules. Easier way to avoid that is to play stock units, and not custom ones.

That being said, the latest book STRATEGIC OPERATIONS has rules for Battleforce. This is for MASSIVE games. It is the equivalent of Epic 40K for Battletech. The game will still take a long time, but you can have regiments face off against each other.

The other alternate rule set is called QUICK STRIKE BATTLETECH, which uses the Battleforce rules for individual units. THere are no 'Mech sheets, just small stat blocks, and a 'Mech can (and will) die very quickly. With quick Strike, you can do company sized engagements (12 'Mechs per side) in less than an hour.

Hmmm...Im gonna have to look this stuff up...Ive been wanting a larger, quicker playing BT for a long time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
MMMkay, maybe not. I looked it up and Im not sure at this point Im willing to chuck out $40 for the book.


Any place/way to get just the rules I need to play Quick Strike cheaper?

I think you can buy a PDF from Battlecorps that is just the Quick Strike Rules.

Endgame wrote:
I wish I hadn't given them away now, but from reading about the timeline (I stopped around 3055) it seems like the whole word of blake thing pretty much ruined everything. :(:(

While the loss of 120 mechs is rough, at least the new box set comming back is gonna help. You really only need to get a few unseen back off ebay and you should have a decent selection again.

As for Word of Blake, I am IN LOVE with the jihad hotspots series. I highly recommend them if you are getting back in the game as the campaign track is AWESOME.

Story wise, we all knew WoB was comming, even in 3055. This is not even their first mass campaign to take over the universe--3052 started that right? No, in my opinion the main issue was that the fedcom civil war and the jihad timeline got pushed forward a bit too fast due to the parent company's buyout, so that certian events felt rushed.

DevianID wrote:

Endgame wrote:
I wish I hadn't given them away now, but from reading about the timeline (I stopped around 3055) it seems like the whole word of blake thing pretty much ruined everything. :(:(

While the loss of 120 mechs is rough, at least the new box set comming back is gonna help. You really only need to get a few unseen back off ebay and you should have a decent selection again.

As for Word of Blake, I am IN LOVE with the jihad hotspots series. I highly recommend them if you are getting back in the game as the campaign track is AWESOME.

Story wise, we all knew WoB was comming, even in 3055. This is not even their first mass campaign to take over the universe--3052 started that right? No, in my opinion the main issue was that the fedcom civil war and the jihad timeline got pushed forward a bit too fast due to the parent company's buyout, so that certian events felt rushed.

The box set will help build numbers, but the basic plastic minis are terrible. If you have any standards you will want to replace them with metal minis eventually.

When I got rid of my collection I lost more than just unseens, which I had a ton of, I lost probably 15-20 conversions. Many of those were based off unseen models.

Take a lesson from me and the other guy, if you have a good collection of old minis, either keep it or sell it for a good price...just giving them away will be regretted eventually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DevianID wrote:

Story wise, we all knew WoB was comming, even in 3055. This is not even their first mass campaign to take over the universe--3052 started that right? No, in my opinion the main issue was that the fedcom civil war and the jihad timeline got pushed forward a bit too fast due to the parent company's buyout, so that certian events felt rushed.

Yes...I remember some Blake scenarios in a couple of the sourcebooks from back in the early 90s. If I remember correctly one was really nasty...both players were deployed as part of the same group...with the Blake players mechs starting behind the other player. Basically the Blake player got a whole first round of shooting at the rear of the opponents mechs.