Why such venom for Grey Knights?

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**Martel732**

It's really hard to shunt away from BA as well. Because red ones go faster. We fear being shot to death from 36"+, not close-range gimmicks.

**LordBlades**

Martel732 wrote:
" Serpent Spam and Grav and Riptides aren't the only books around. "

Might as well be from a quality perspective.

Because Daemons and Newcrons suck soo much, right?

**Martel732**

LordBlades wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
" Serpent Spam and Grav and Riptides aren't the only books around. "

Might as well be from a quality perspective.

Because Daemons and Newcrons suck soo much, right?

Don't know about Daemons, but pretty sure the Newcrons spank GK as well. The point is that when talking about how good a codex is, the top lists are the bar, not the bottom lists.

**Bill1138**

Bharring wrote:
I used my most recent game with them to show that they do have things that can do things. Harlequins have less of a Dex than GK, definitely. And probably should be that way. It was an anecdote, not a body of data.

But how do GK stand up to Orkz? Dark Eldar? CSM? Dark Angels? Serpent Spam and Grav and Riptides aren't the only books around.

We got off topic where we started talking about my Harlequins needing to hang back and outshoot them. Got my back up a little, and wasted a lot of peoples' time.

Grey Knights typically field the same monobuild of the best units in the Codex, using the one strategy allowed us (alpha strike), to achieve roughly a 50% success rate, whereas other Codexes can tailor their armies for a variety of strategies, and achieve the same success rate.

**Bharring**

Didn't realize they were so far down the totem pole. Surprising.

**Martel732**

Why is it surprising? 24" shooting range sucks. Low model count sucks. The result of this is a high degree of sucking. I can't imagine taking on a grav star with GK.

**Quickjager**

I have, it was painful. Literally a unit deleted a turn, unless Draigo and an apothecary were attached.

**Grey Templar**

Martel732 wrote:
Why is it surprising? 24" shooting range sucks. Low model count sucks. The result of this is a high degree of sucking. I can't imagine taking on a grav star with GK.

It basically boils down to me praying I rolled Forewarning and Sanctuary on my two Librarians and my Grandmaster in some combination.

**Bharring**

I suppose it depends on what you consider "normal". A lot of GK stuff looks like it would do well against a demi-company, but nothing reasonable stands up to the top stuff right now.

**Martel732**

Bharring wrote:
I suppose it depends on what you consider "normal". A lot of GK stuff looks like it would do well against a demi-company, but nothing reasonable stands up to the top stuff right now.

GK struggle against the mobile grav and plasma of BA. I can block their alpha strike with cheap rhino hulls and preds if necessary, protecting all my stuff that is real points. After the shunt, the turkey shoot begins. The init 5 assaults don't help either. None of this helps me against true power lists.