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Forgive my grammar, I am just off work.

My FLGS just got sent some freebie Malefic gates or whatever the boxes of the forts are. The entire set, basically to demo on. There games of AoS and 40k daily on our two and a half tables. Back to the spikey gates though (they are actually so sharp even painted, they will prick you, wtf was GW thinking.) So the gates were sent due to how long the store has worked with GW (every quarter our little store gets free stuff for terrain in return for sending back pictures.) Anyways, it is selling like mad here.

However, as much as I love my fellow gamers and friends, they drink the GW kool-aid. Hard. If it is released, they buy it.

Even if they don't have that army and it means going in to debt. Also, they love FW but, it is a 50/50 split on those who will buy it. Not for the reason you commonly see which is "It's not canon/OP." Half will buy and play FW models or love to play against it but, the other half refuses to buy it because their money goes to FW instead of the shop, since the shop can't stock it. (Weirdest/most redundant reason I've ever heard not to buy from a FLGS.)

AoS is doing really good in my area. There's always been an emphasis on WHFB where I am, and there's only one or two people that seem to be closed off to playing the game. One person in particular makes a fuss every time AoS is played and he's nearby, which annoys the hell out of everyone else.

I decided to give myself a challenge and play as NG, especially since AoS is my first fantasy game based in GW for over 10 years. I've found it easier to play, I don't get bored as the games are usually quite short and it's actually very tactical.

AoS is doing pretty abysmally here, but a great part of that is how GW treats the FLGS, GW has 1 store, noone else carries AoS. but I would also say non selling starters arent really an indicator since if you are not into sigmarines and khorne there is absolutely nothing in the set worth buying, I play AoS but wont buy the starter as I do not play either faction. As for seeing it be played, other than at GW, pretty much nobody. I have to go out of town to get a game, and its starting to be not worth the effort.

Please forgive me if this has been answered already.

Is there any indication on sales numbers etc. that would indicate how well (or not) AoS is doing overall?

 WarAngel wrote:
Please forgive me if this has been answered already.

Is there any indication on sales numbers etc. that would indicate how well (or not) AoS is doing overall?

Not yet, you'll have to wait for the next GW investor report.

The stats on mighty ape (I am fairly sure it sells the most wargame products in NZ) has nearly no GW related goods in the top sellers hobby list besides nuln wash and agrax earhshade. Actually I just checked and stand corrected, its at the bottom of the top sellers list for the first time. It is and was beaten by FLames of War, Kings of war and X wing.

Unless people are buying from GW (at their prices here I would be surprised) then not very well.

Thats just around here though. I don't go into GW so not sure if thats sold many.

Its still an object of derision around here.

To put it simply and not going on a long winded rant ;
The local tabletop wargaming scene was kinda dead before, nothings changed so far. MtG is going strong as ever and I think some people have picked up X-Wing, which the store doesn't even stock.
The only regular (and I use the term loosely) people to play with is me and one other person who even owns Fantasy armies, two others and me with 40K armies.
And while there is a store with a place to play its... less than ideal.

Pretty much sums it up I think

Oh and I'm hearing murmurs of the store giving up on GW and instead focus of the stuff they can actually sell, as in MtG, comics, retro games, used DvDs and books.
To paint you a picture of how well GW products sell; I bought a "Battle For Skull Pass" set last year, new in the box

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
Its still an object of derision around here.

Yea, even children here are doing this. When I was a kid every release from GW was awesome. Times are changing.

People have been playing it and slowly more and more people are coming around to it. There has been no mockery, even from old WHFB players. Everyone is giving it a fair shot and being open-minded about it, and I'm very impressed by my community. No rage at all.

I must say sadly it's pretty dead in my region. The WFB clubs were quite pissed by the change and they did a great job to shoot AoS down.

But then, my area isn't so great in comparison to America's wide zones. So I guess it doesn't mean a lot for GW sales.

Still, my Stormcast Eternals are slowly gathering dust on my showcases by lack of players. Oh well, maybe it will start anew later, when other factions will come out?

We've always been more of a 40K fan base with some Fantasy players. We're still in a lengthy 40K league at present but there has been some interest in AoS but we won't know how much interest until players get the time to try it. So far though the interest has been positive.

 Sarouan wrote:
Oh well, maybe it will start anew later, when other factions will come out?

That's probably a large part of the answer overall. Too early to give a verdict due to having only two faction released while everything else is older edition.

Not doing too bad in my area

We have been running a league night on Fridays at whats probably the largest game shop in the region and its been drawing 6-12 players each week.Some are long time mini players,some returning after a long break and of course regular mini games like myself.Intersting that this large game shop didn't have a regular group for WHFB in recent years though they occasionally hosted tourneys.

We are currently working on a club comp system and scenario mix for events and its been going pretty well with everyone starting new armies or expanding on ones they played in 8th.

I should also note it certainly has its critics/haters in the area as well.There are many who simply wont even touch it,most of them being long time WHFB players that were active in the regional/national tournament scene.Cant really blame then either as it was a huge blow their favored hobby.Im hopefull that over time, we as a community can develop a solid comp system and scenario format that will perhaps bring back some of those who have written the game off.

Good comments about the game I hear a lot;

-Easy to get into rules wise as well as purchase wise.
-Faster paced play
-Much easier to get a multiplayer game going,especially if theres 3 players as you can just split warscroll count between two players and 2v1.Or play a fun team game.
-Players can bring terrain as part of their army.
-Scenario play is THE WAY to go with AOS.

Some not so good comments;


-Luck is at times too much of a factor.
-Keeping track of terrain effects can be difficult without a marker set.
-Of course not having a standard for army building/selection yet is still an issue.
-Some players still don't like model to model measurement.

The store itself is large and has a pretty good stock of AoS along with older Fantasy kits and they seem to be keeping that way with some items moving off the shelf from week to week.

Overall,I think it will continue to grow and be active in the mix of games played within this local community

Try using model to model, but only the "body" of the model. So measure from wings and arms, but ignore standards and spear tips. Makes things feel less silly

There's actually no rules for multi-player games but I suppose you could just roll initiative and go in the order 1,2,3 according to the dice results, re-rolling any draws.

It adds to the luck though, because it makes it possible to have four enemy turns against you before you get a second turn. Things of course get potentially worse as you add more players.

This just might be a coincidence, but since AoS came out, I have seen Wrath of kings make a major uptick in all my FLGs, still no sign of AoS, but most of my old opponents from WHFB are now playing Wrath of Kings...but that anime style lust repels me.

I went to my local GW store on a gaming night and there were 8 people playing AoS. After chatting with them and the staff for a while it's clear that AoS is very popular in my area.

I'm looking forward to creating an army and joining them!

A minor update. I myself am getting into AoS, so are 2 of my close friends. I'm pretty open-minded. But there's 2 things that are happening.


1. Even for those of us that are open to AoS, we've pretty much decided we need to use the unofficial Errata that I believe came from a GW shop (rather than GW HQ). This is the one that clarified some of the rules like not shooting into units already engaged in combat and balance armies based on Wounds.


2. Players are simply moving back to 8th ed. There seems to be a trend that's increasing in popularity. Our FLGS and player community are not embracing Kings of War or other games for a number of reasons, but they do want 8th ed back. I'm very sympathetic towards them.


Again, I'm pretty unbiased. I took it upon myself to buy the AoS book just so that we have some understanding of the setting we're now playing in, lending it to my friends.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There's actually no rules for multi-player games but I suppose you could just roll initiative and go in the order 1,2,3 according to the dice results, re-rolling any draws.

It adds to the luck though, because it makes it possible to have four enemy turns against you before you get a second turn. Things of course get potentially worse as you add more players.

There are official GW rules for multiplayer AoS games. There is a Battleplan called "A Convergence of Fate" that comes with web orders, and details multiplayer rules. The turn order is much as you describe, although combat is initiated in a clockwise fashion after the player whose turn it is activates.

There are also extra rules for allying and backstabbing.

It looks really fun and I hope to play it at some point.

 Bottle wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There's actually no rules for multi-player games but I suppose you could just roll initiative and go in the order 1,2,3 according to the dice results, re-rolling any draws.

It adds to the luck though, because it makes it possible to have four enemy turns against you before you get a second turn. Things of course get potentially worse as you add more players.

There are official GW rules for multiplayer AoS games. There is a Battleplan ... ...

That's cool but it's doesn't appear in the first two pages of Google search results so effectively it doesn't exist.

I started playing miniatures way back in the eighties. I owned a game store in the nineties and have worked for GW as an Outrider. I currently own a game store. After all of that time there are several trends that are common. The first is that once a game is no longer produced, it disappears. No matter how hard the player base pushes, it goes away. Here are some of the miniatures games that I enjoyed playing....Chronopia, Leviathan, Warzone (the original version), Vor, Man-O-War, Epic 40k (the good version, not the vanilla blob version), a Fantasy Miniatures game made by FASA (maybe somebody out there remembers the name), Confrontation (metal and pre-paints), AT-40, heck, I'll even include Dust as it has effectively committed suicide several times. Now I'm not saying that somewhere 6 crusty 40 year olds aren't playing Chronopia with the same group they have been playing with for decades. No I'm talking about having a game that I can play in one part of the country, move to another part and have a reasonable chance at finding a group. Now people have pointed out that there has been mixed success with the box set, and that is probably true. I have only sold about 20 of them. But those sales are greatly affected by the fact that the rules and Warscrolls are free, so unless you want to play Stormcast Eternals or Khorne there is no reason to buy the starter. So I would put those sales in the new AOS players column. It is also true that the old guard are taking this hard. They have sworn to move to Kings of War or to help create some kind of WFB 8.5 like the E.T.C. I was one of those guys who was hoping KOW could replace WFB. It can't. For me personally, I just don't like the rules. Really, the only thing they have in common with WFB is that you mount your figures on unit sized square bases, Honestly, there are even better game systems (like Hail Caesar) that do that. And Mantic miniatures got the call that the eighties want their figures back. Another problem that will be fixed in time is that unless you are a Stormcast or Khorne player, your army got nothing new. So for 13 out of the 15 or so armies there was nothing new except Warscrolls, and in particular, Warscrolls that do not have the synergy that the two new armies have. If GW are smart, they will soon be releasing units for the other armies, and more people will start playing the game. Our AOS league is doing just fine. The biggest problem is the lack of points, and the PPC rules on this forum do a great job of taking care of that. I think that is what GW wnted all along anyway. If they had point costed everything, then just like the ETC the fans would have written their own point cost systems, so this just saves them (GW) time and aggravation. The other trend that I have seen is that stores often don't know what to carry. Many of them are glorified card shops, comic book stores, or stores started by owners that don't play miniatures games. In those stores, the trend is to go with the companies that are perceived to be big. Hence they are far more likely to carry AOS miniatures and are far less likely to carry Kings of War (for instance). On my stance on KOW, I don't personally like the game, but if you do, great!! I will sell it in my store and unlike a forum I will cesure what I think about it. But KOW is not WFB, not even close. And I will never carry their miniatures. Well,that's my two cents!

Smellingsalts wrote:
I started playing miniatures way back in the eighties. I owned a game store in the nineties and have worked for GW as an Outrider. I currently own a game store. After all of that time there are several trends that are common. The first is that once a game is no longer produced, it disappears. No matter how hard the player base pushes, it goes away. Here are some of the miniatures games that I enjoyed playing....Chronopia, Leviathan, Warzone (the original version), Vor, Man-O-War, Epic 40k (the good version, not the vanilla blob version), a Fantasy Miniatures game made by FASA (maybe somebody out there remembers the name), Confrontation (metal and pre-paints), AT-40, heck, I'll even include Dust as it has effectively committed suicide several times. Now I'm not saying that somewhere 6 crusty 40 year olds aren't playing Chronopia with the same group they have been playing with for decades. No I'm talking about having a game that I can play in one part of the country, move to another part and have a reasonable chance at finding a group. Now people have pointed out that there has been mixed success with the box set, and that is probably true. I have only sold about 20 of them. But those sales are greatly affected by the fact that the rules and Warscrolls are free, so unless you want to play Stormcast Eternals or Khorne there is no reason to buy the starter. So I would put those sales in the new AOS players column. It is also true that the old guard are taking this hard. They have sworn to move to Kings of War or to help create some kind of WFB 8.5 like the E.T.C. I was one of those guys who was hoping KOW could replace WFB. It can't. For me personally, I just don't like the rules. Really, the only thing they have in common with WFB is that you mount your figures on unit sized square bases, Honestly, there are even better game systems (like Hail Caesar) that do that. And Mantic miniatures got the call that the eighties want their figures back. Another problem that will be fixed in time is that unless you are a Stormcast or Khorne player, your army got nothing new. So for 13 out of the 15 or so armies there was nothing new except Warscrolls, and in particular, Warscrolls that do not have the synergy that the two new armies have. If GW are smart, they will soon be releasing units for the other armies, and more people will start playing the game. Our AOS league is doing just fine. The biggest problem is the lack of points, and the PPC rules on this forum do a great job of taking care of that. I think that is what GW wnted all along anyway. If they had point costed everything, then just like the ETC the fans would have written their own point cost systems, so this just saves them (GW) time and aggravation. The other trend that I have seen is that stores often don't know what to carry. Many of them are glorified card shops, comic book stores, or stores started by owners that don't play miniatures games. In those stores, the trend is to go with the companies that are perceived to be big. Hence they are far more likely to carry AOS miniatures and are far less likely to carry Kings of War (for instance). On my stance on KOW, I don't personally like the game, but if you do, great!! I will sell it in my store and unlike a forum I will cesure what I think about it. But KOW is not WFB, not even close. And I will never carry their miniatures. Well,that's my two cents!

KOW is a hell of a lot closer to WFB than AoS is. It retains the concepts of formations and maneuver, which are the primary facets of pre-gun powder warfare. AoS instead operates along the lines of post rifle skirmish combat, but without the rifles.

Originally WFB assumed that individually troopers represented additional soldiers (as otherwise the battles were stupidly small). At some point GW forgot this, and decided that since battles only made up a hundred or so troops they'd just turn the game into loose mobs of warriors fighting each skirmish style like some inaccurate action movie. This is a complete misrepresentation of how actual warfare functioned, and how it would also function in a fantasy setting.

KOW may not be a clone of WFB (which I'm thrilled with, WFB had a ton of long term issues that held it back), but its a similar game conceptually. AoS lines up like 40k from a concept point of view, which doesn't make any sense for medieval and ancient style warfare.

Yep, KOW is closer to WFB in the way units maneuver. I have to give that up. But that's about it. This is all my opinion, so don't take it like I'm trying to teach facts. If I had to critique WFB I would say that some of the spells were too powerful, Steadfast was too hard to break. There were problems with physics, like a unit of Ogres could have all characters in the the front row and Ironguts in the back and when you fought it from the front the Ironguts could hit you, but you couldn't hit them. The FAQ on magic items was totally lacking, for instance, if I use a Silver hex scroll on a Chaos Sorcerer riding a manticore, what happens? Does the whole thing become a frog? Is it a frog riding a manticore? Army points had to be altered to create fair lists (E.T.C.). And the problem for a lot of people was the model cost. But for all that I loved the game. For me it was the world GW created. The characters. The stories. And the art! AOS still has a lot of that. granted it's a new world, new images, new stories. Now I am sitting here looking at the Kings of War hardcover 2nd Edition. The line art looks like amateur 80's art which goes along with the terrible eighties style models. Even the full color plates are bad because they have to depict images that are in line with their models. The writing and story line are terrible.Combining exact movement +pre-measurement is a really bad idea. Getting attacked without hitting back just doesn't feel right, plus you have to hope you don't break before you can hit back. There are only 6 universal spells. For me, that is why I personally can't use it as a substitute. But if you dig KOW more power to you. I have a gaming group of friends that was big into WFB. When AOS happened a lot of them rage quit and vowed they would just play KOW. They played a few games and most are now playing AOS. That was my experience and to get to the point of the thread, people in my area are playing AOS.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There's actually no rules for multi-player games but I suppose you could just roll initiative and go in the order 1,2,3 according to the dice results, re-rolling any draws.

It adds to the luck though, because it makes it possible to have four enemy turns against you before you get a second turn. Things of course get potentially worse as you add more players.

There are official GW rules for multiplayer AoS games. There is a Battleplan ... ...

That's cool but it's doesn't appear in the first two pages of Google search results so effectively it doesn't exist.

Feels like you're trying to make a point?

I'm just pointing people in the right direction. Google: "AoS Battleplan came with my web order" and it should come up. :-)

I know I've posted in other threads but: At my LGW, it's doing probably "quite well"

From talking to the manager, the shop has always had someone playing fantasy, but it was clearly the minority of games in store. Now, kits on that half of the store are moving fairly well due to the campaign, people are actually having fun playing and the mix between 40k and AoS games is probably around 60/40 toward AoS (though I will readily admit that this is most likely due to the campaign setting)

There is only one guy in my area who regularly looks for games of AoS. A couple of other people have played a game or two with him and I believe that a few people who don't really play very often or ever in public places like stores have bought the starter sets at least. Virtually nothing AoS related has sold aside from starter boxes and copies of some of the books to a few completists who buy more than they play.

Almost the entire warhammer club, including myself, is now playing Malifaux and really enjoying it.