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 jonolikespie wrote:

TRIGSTEN wrote:
Your obviously a new tabletop gamer with that opinion.

Funny, in my experience that's the view of a vet who's been burned by GW three or four times too many.

TRIGSTEN wrote:
GW, and many other companies, never started off with a "balanced" and "tournament" approach to gaming. They made cool miniatures and then they made a game to use them. For me, and many others, they are returning to their roots. And I love it. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other forums to spread negativity on.

Funny thing, GW actually seem to be the only ones not trying to balance their games. Kings of War, Infinity, Warmachine, ALL of GWs competition are either renowned for their ability to be used as a tournament game or at least puts in effort to make a fair game.

As for those other forums, the great thing about Dakka is all opinions are welcome here as long as no one insults each other. Why would anyone want to go anywhere else?

You are correct, new companies like Warmachine, started with the premise of making a game, and then creating miniatures to use in it. Very different from GW. Obviously this suits many people who are loving Warmachine. And thats fine. Its also equally fine to love GW philosophy. I don't agree that constant negative opinions are "welcome" unless they are constructive. Which his was not.

Selling REALLY well at my FLGS. The fantasy crowd is eating it up for the most part.

TRIGSTEN wrote:
I don't agree that constant negative opinions are "welcome" unless they are constructive. Which his was not.

Then I am glad you don't get to set the rules for this site. If you want a forum where everyone agrees with you try BOLS, personally I can't stand the idea of Dakka turning into a place where certain opinions are unwelcome for no reason other than someone considers them 'wrong'.

 jonolikespie wrote:

TRIGSTEN wrote:
I don't agree that constant negative opinions are "welcome" unless they are constructive. Which his was not.

Then I am glad you don't get to set the rules for this site. If you want a forum where everyone agrees with you try BOLS, personally I can't stand the idea of Dakka turning into a place where certain opinions are unwelcome for no reason other than someone considers them 'wrong'.

That is not what I said or meant.

A negative opinion is still an opinion, and therefore should be welcome.

 jonolikespie wrote:
A negative opinion is still an opinion, and therefore should be welcome.

Completely agree, the best part of this website is that there are a whole bunch of people with different opinions on the same thing. But, we can still talk like adults and see each other's point of view and have a healthy debate, instead of just being keyboard warrior cheese dicks spewing hate at each other. If people want to just attack each other like pre-teens, that is what Myspace is for.

And we can also stay on topic.

at my big FLGS, it seems to be still finding its legs. Some players are investing time and effort in it, others are finding new games. At the 2nd FLGS, I'm not sure. I have heard that the local GW store (man, I'm lucky to live in an area w/ such a big tabletop gaming community...) has been really busy w/ players who are enjoying AoS (no, it wasn't the redshirt that told me that lol). I was there last weekend for a quick minute and there were a few players playing AoS and few hobbyists just hanging out.

Not sure about sales in the local stores (one store has dropped GW entirely though) or how many members of the other clubs in the area have picked it up but in my small club so far all we've really done is take the piss out of GW and groan about a lot of the changes. To be fair though we will be giving AoS a go tomorrow evening. If we enjoy the game that's great, if not we simply don't play it again and play something we do enjoy.

I have been in several GWs recently. They all have plenty of boxes on the shelves, which is what I should have expected because they want to sell it after all.

Some of them were running demo games with variable success. The most successful was a game involving the boxed set models plus some WHFB models, with a redshirt versus a young lad about 11-12 years old. That is I think the key target market and he seemed to be enjoying it.

The other demo game was two 30-ish guys who did not seem to be having much of a good time with the basic set. They were playing happily enough but there wasn't an atmosphere of great fun and enjoyment so much as going through the game as a tactical exercise.

I was surprised that none of the GW shops had painted their models nicely. They had done a sketchy spray or gold or red over them, and a bit of detailing like white wings on the flying Sigmarines.

There was a big following of Fantasy in group, but that's instantly vanished.
Hardly any AOS interest, most are pretty disgusted by the death of Fantasy. Kings of War is popping up in its place.

On the painting, the Redshirts probably just haven't had time to get them painted up nicely given they would have been given little warning or prep time for the release and most of them are in 1 man stores now where finding time to paint minis themselves is probably pretty difficult.

That and the turnover of staff may mean that the guys selling the miniatures are not as into the hobby side of things as they used to be. I've also noticed pretty bad painting on lots of the store miniatures I have seen (I've checked 3 GWs by now)

about 20 people in my group, we tried it and all we are doing is laughing at the lonely guy that likes the sigmarites because looks like Sanguinary guard but NOT like space marines.
KoW or 8.5th is all we play and i'm happy like that.
If i wanted to play a game with 4 pages rulebook I'd play battleship.

I've heard absolutely no response to AoS from my uni's board games society. Didn't have a massive fantasy crowd as it was, but the 40K following was big. We won't know if there's been any traction at all until the new term, but the prognostications for it so far are grim.

For comparison, ME got some love during the KS campaign. I've got a few players lined up eager to try it.

Freshers in the new term could change everything though.

Not sure how many of you remember 1985 when new coke came out ( yes I am old). It was a flop and angered their loyal customers. AoS is the new coke all over again

 Chute82 wrote:
Not sure how many of you remember 1985 when new coke came out ( yes I am old). It was a flop and angered their loyal customers. AoS is the new coke all over again

Man, I hope so - because that fiasco ended with them scrapping "New Coke" and bringing back the old formula.

...I ain't holding my breath, though.

 Chute82 wrote:
Not sure how many of you remember 1985 when new coke came out ( yes I am old). It was a flop and angered their loyal customers. AoS is the new coke all over again

Except, if this flops no coke classic will be coming and if it does well we get New 40K.

Stopped by my local Games Workshop today (GASP), because my normal store didn't get it's WD77 this week.

There was actually a table of a couple of people playing AoS, and the store was busier than I think I've ever seen it -- a dozen plus customers inside. One of 'em was going to check out with an AoS box in his arms.

They also had good pots of Mephiston Red, yay. Stores I have been visiting have been getting these chunky, really thick pots of Mephiston that are only good to be thinned for Airbrush (because you get WAY more airbrush paint out of thick paint than thin).

The store-painted AoS models were not worthy, lol. They should have painted a whole bunch in Nottingham and sent them out. I mean, they weren't TERRIBLE, but certainly not anything remotely close to what you'd see in a White Dwarf/Visions/Box art. A mediocre paint job on a Lord Celestant as a "showpiece" model makes me want to cry.

 Commissar Molotov wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:
Not sure how many of you remember 1985 when new coke came out ( yes I am old). It was a flop and angered their loyal customers. AoS is the new coke all over again

Man, I hope so - because that fiasco ended with them scrapping "New Coke" and bringing back the old formula.

...I ain't holding my breath, though.

The thing about new coke.....its the current coke. What they did is slowly change the formula over the years, for the same reason they changed it originally. Not because it tasted better, but because it was cheaper. Look at a can of coke today and compare ingredients to a can from 1983. I guarantee you its FAR closer to the original new coke recipient than the original coke. And all they had to do to trick everyone was to do it gradually without telling you.

 Talys wrote:

The store-painted AoS models were not worthy, lol. They should have painted a whole bunch in Nottingham and sent them out. I mean, they weren't TERRIBLE, but certainly not anything remotely close to what you'd see in a White Dwarf/Visions/Box art. A mediocre paint job on a Lord Celestant as a "showpiece" model makes me want to cry.

Given what was written in the last semi-annual, I have a feeling they're getting rid of "hobby" oriented employees for "profit" oriented employees. Air quotes because the two aren't mutually exclusive, but I imagine GW wants their managers to focus on selling rather than painting (even if the painting might draw someone into the game).

Edit: Alternatively your standards are too high

So like anything. Its either not selling or is. Lol. Its not gonna die anytime soon. GW have put money into it. They will give it a few years. Rumours suggest this has been gw's idea for years and now that they've had the chance to do it they went for it. Look how many years they kept old fantasy going for. Anyone thinking gw is just gonna drop AoS anytime in the near future is gonne be in for a wait

 Motograter wrote:
So like anything. Its either not selling or is. Lol. Its not gonna die anytime soon. GW have put money into it. They will give it a few years. Rumours suggest this has been gw's idea for years and now that they've had the chance to do it they went for it. Look how many years they kept old fantasy going for. Anyone thinking gw is just gonna drop AoS anytime in the near future is gonne be in for a wait

I seriously doubt that fantasy is going away, however if Age of Sigmar does not perform, it is possible that they might keep it as a skirmish based game to learn the rules so to speak and bring back the old structure for Warhammer Fantasy. While I do like what the new version brings in some ways, this is not fantasy and honestly I enjoyed the older style and structure a lot better than this. Sad thing to is that there really wasn't anything wrong with the old game with the exception of some rules and magic being a bit too strong.

I thought a number of the original rumor mongers (the ones who broke Sigmarines back in January) mentioned that GW has specific quotas it expects to sell, and should they not meet a certain threshold, the game will be removed entirely (aka no more Warhammer anything).

 Ironwolf45 wrote:

 Motograter wrote:
So like anything. Its either not selling or is. Lol. Its not gonna die anytime soon. GW have put money into it. They will give it a few years. Rumours suggest this has been gw's idea for years and now that they've had the chance to do it they went for it. Look how many years they kept old fantasy going for. Anyone thinking gw is just gonna drop AoS anytime in the near future is gonne be in for a wait

I seriously doubt that fantasy is going away, however if Age of Sigmar does not perform, it is possible that they might keep it as a skirmish based game to learn the rules so to speak and bring back the old structure for Warhammer Fantasy. While I do like what the new version brings in some ways, this is not fantasy and honestly I enjoyed the older style and structure a lot better than this. Sad thing to is that there really wasn't anything wrong with the old game with the exception of some rules and magic being a bit too strong.

Not sure that's the case....

- if AoS fails, it's not really clear to me that GW would bring back the old form of WFB. They killed it for a reason: it doesn't sell. Internally at GW, someone would have to make one hell of a strong business case to get it brought back. I don't think they would be able to justify it on a spreadsheet per se.

- WFB had a lot wrong with it in terms of being a vibrant business that sells well (ie like 40K or Warmachine), more than just a few rules and an over-strong magic phase. Sure I enjoyed a few games of 8th, but evidently the barrier to entry was too high and existing vets weren't buying enough stuff.

If AoS fails I think GW would basically sell just 40K and the odd spot release like the Assassin board game, Space Hulk etc. And that might mean closing their stores and going direct only.

It's the reasons above that have me hoping AoS succeeds - because I really, really like GW fantasy models. Can't stand Mantic's for example. Privateers are nice and honestly if they went hard/sprue plastic I think they would deal GW a serious blow - I think their lousy plastic material and metal models hold them back tbh.

Anyway, I'm rambling lol.

Like a nurgle plague in a nursing home.

It's doing fine at my GW store, new players are in, old players have returned(like me) a few 40k players have joined in as well... But its far too early to tell...

 Achaylus72 wrote:
Like a nurgle plague in a nursing home.

So everyone has it and is giving thanks to Papa Nurgle for the gift!

I'm not sure your analogy works quite like you thought it would....or does?

Hard to tell at my FLGS....

Gaming comes and goes in waves. First it was Fantasy and everyone was playing it. Then it was 40k, then X-Wing, then Spoils, then Warmahordes, then Bloodbowl, then Dreadball, then... you get the idea.

Several people have tried AoS and like it, including myself. We can play with anything from our collections and not have to worry about points and percentages and 6 hour marathon games. And that might be why many of us like it. We have large collections of older models and kits. All we had to do was print the rules and our warscrolls

However, it's the new shiny. So who knows how long interest will last. Right now we are on week two of a four week 40k escalation campaign so that's where everyone's money and time is focused.

If the shop owner figures out a way to run a campaign then interest will probably pick up and steamroll all the other games for a while because his customers are flash in the pan kinda people.

Stopped in a local game store yesterday that I haven't been to in about 2 years. The store has a largish playing space with multiple tables.

They'd sold out of the hardback AoS book, but also hadn't ordered very many.

What was interesting though was that the staff told me that peo-ple rarely played WFB in their store prior to AoS (40k is much more popular). So, in their view AoS was doing no worse than WFB did and at least has an upside whereas WFB was essentially moribund.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 Talys wrote:

The store-painted AoS models were not worthy, lol. They should have painted a whole bunch in Nottingham and sent them out. I mean, they weren't TERRIBLE, but certainly not anything remotely close to what you'd see in a White Dwarf/Visions/Box art. A mediocre paint job on a Lord Celestant as a "showpiece" model makes me want to cry.

Given what was written in the last semi-annual, I have a feeling they're getting rid of "hobby" oriented employees for "profit" oriented employees. Air quotes because the two aren't mutually exclusive, but I imagine GW wants their managers to focus on selling rather than painting (even if the painting might draw someone into the game).

Edit: Alternatively your standards are too high

I don't think his standards are too high. The display models should be tabletop at the very least, or high tabletop to whet the appetite of the customers. I went to the flagship bunker store in Toronto and the general level of the display models has deteriorated since GW's heyday. Surprisingly, there were some unpainted models here and there in the display cabinets as well.