Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Frazzled wrote:
You are assuming both get scholarships and at similar rates.

If you REALLY want to help you help poverty, not AA.

And what's an important part of lifting people out of poverty? Education you say? Gee, what a shame that there's nothing we can do about that, huh?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You are assuming both get scholarships and at similar rates.

If you REALLY want to help you help poverty, not AA.

And what's an important part of lifting people out of poverty? Education you say? Gee, what a shame that there's nothing we can do about that, huh?

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp

We spend more per kid on education than Sweden does. Maybe we are Doing Something. Maybe that Something is really damned inefficient.

Indeed. We have an education problem, but it has nothing to do with money.

Always funny to bring up when someone says we spend too much on the military and not enough on education.

 skyth wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Well as Netroots taught us, the Democrat party doesn't believe all lives matter.

I'm calling BS on that one.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/activists-disrupt-forum-featuring-candidates-omalley-sanders/2015/07/18/ca64eb34-2d60-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/bernie-sanders-netroots-nation-black-lives-matter/


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You are assuming both get scholarships and at similar rates.

If you REALLY want to help you help poverty, not AA.

And what's an important part of lifting people out of poverty? Education you say? Gee, what a shame that there's nothing we can do about that, huh?

Who's this "we" stuff? Are you wiring funds to the US? I can give you an account number if you would like.

Crystal-Maze wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

Crystal-Maze wrote:

That link leads to a 404 error for me - buisiness insider does not often like computers my side of the pond.

Is the thing you're getting at that the government encouraged predatory lending to black people insofar as they were poor, rather than banks specifically directing predatory loans towards black people?

More or less.

Basically, people with sub-prime credit (typically less than 700), many of whom in the US are minorities, and many of whom, further, don't necessarily have the financial savvy to understand how an ARM works, which is the majority of the loan types they were being offered. Loan adjusts....people can no longer afford their loans. That's why you'll hear most pundits recommend Fixed Rate loans. Jumbo loans are a different beast altogether.

To further it, the HUD, through Fannie and Freddy, basically guaranteed the debt from lenders (they said they'd purchase like, $2T --yes, trillion-- in these types of loans) making the risk of the lending even less for the initial lender (because they were going to, in turn, be bought by Fannie or Freddy.)

That may well be true in general.
But from the actual study I posted:
"A joint report from the US
Department of Housing and Urban Development and
the US Department of the Treasury found that, as of
2000, “borrowers in black neighborhoods [were] five
times as likely to refinance in the subprime market
than borrowers in white neighborhoods,” even when
controlling for income."
"

Not sure what you're tying to point out with this quotation. None of that contradicts anything I posted.

You never refinance unless you are getting a better rate, at least I can't think of a reason to refinance to a worse rate.

So Frazz, one fringe advocacy group represents the entire Democratic Party? Just like the Birthers and Ted Cruz represent the entire GOP, right? Your fallacies today are adding up. You've met your quota.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

Based on what you have revealed yourself your privilege might have kicked in twice already: when your mother didn't decide to abort you and when your adoptive parents signed your papers. The exact impact your race might have played depends on when exactly you were born.

Wrong.

Domestic adoptions are much rarer than international ones. Thus you are actually less likely to be adopted if you are white. BTW, my 3 younger siblings are all foreign, specifically Vietnamese, Chinese, and Khazak.

Ah Crap. I'm done with this thread
The final authority on these adoption rested on my wife.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
So Frazz, one fringe advocacy group represents the entire Democratic Party? Just like the Birthers and Ted Cruz represent the entire GOP, right? Your fallacies today are adding up. You've met your quota.

Hey thats what the Left Coast always says. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Why are Presidential candidates not refuting this?

Why didn't the GOP candidates (other than Grahm) refute Trump about Mexican immigrants being rapsists? Goose meet gander. We are well and truly OT. And I'm from the Midwest, like smack dab center, not the Left coast. Don't sink to those pinko commie tactics

Y'all will have to excuse me if I sound stupid when I say that I don't see what the spending on education has when we were discussing affirmative action.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Why didn't the GOP candidates (other than Grahm) refute Trump about Mexican immigrants being rapsists? Goose meet gander. We are well and truly OT. And I'm from the Midwest, like smack dab center, not the Left coast.

Because Trump isn't to be taken seriously, unlike some of these other groups who aren't actually fringe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Y'all will have to excuse me if I sound stupid when I say that I don't see what the spending on education has when we were discussing affirmative action.

AA is most common used with education.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Why didn't the GOP candidates (other than Grahm) refute Trump about Mexican immigrants being rapsists? Goose meet gander. We are well and truly OT. And I'm from the Midwest, like smack dab center, not the Left coast.

Because Trump isn't to be taken seriously, unlike some of these other groups who aren't actually fringe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Y'all will have to excuse me if I sound stupid when I say that I don't see what the spending on education has when we were discussing affirmative action.

AA is most common used with education.

Had you heard of net roots before this, because is sure haven't.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Why didn't the GOP candidates (other than Grahm) refute Trump about Mexican immigrants being rapsists? Goose meet gander. We are well and truly OT. And I'm from the Midwest, like smack dab center, not the Left coast.

Because Trump isn't to be taken seriously, unlike some of these other groups who aren't actually fringe.
.

1. Most of them have.
2 While thats not an accurate statement, it is a matter of record that there has been an inflow of crime from illegal aliens. Whether its a rate higher or lower than natives is irrelevant.
For example if you look at California prisons, the a substantial minority, if not majority come from Mexico and Central America. Indeed, MS13 was started that way.

I was referring to the whole "Black Lives Matter" group. They're definitely not just a vocal fringe group.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Y'all will have to excuse me if I sound stupid when I say that I don't see what the spending on education has when we were discussing affirmative action.

AA is most common used with education.

Yes. What does that have to do with education expenditure?

I think thats tied to you making the statement of spending more money.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Y'all will have to excuse me if I sound stupid when I say that I don't see what the spending on education has when we were discussing affirmative action.

It started with your comment (which has to do with economic classes, as Frazz suggested helping poverty is what is important):

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


And what's an important part of lifting people out of poverty? Education you say? Gee, what a shame that there's nothing we can do about that, huh?

I pointed out we (the US) ARE doing something about education, and that the Something seems to not be very efficient at solving the problem (with what we are spending on education we are not seeing the resulting 'lift' out of poverty you would expect).

In short, you offered 'education' as a solution to lifting people out of poverty and then implied we were not doing enough to provide that education. I attempted to show we are doing a lot to provide it.

 CptJake wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


And what's an important part of lifting people out of poverty? Education you say? Gee, what a shame that there's nothing we can do about that, huh?

I pointed out we (the US) ARE doing something about education, and that the Something seems to not be very efficient at solving the problem (with what we are spending on education we are not seeing the resulting 'lift' out of poverty you would expect).

In short, you offered 'education' as a solution to lifting people out of poverty and then implied we were not doing enough to provide that education. I attempted to show we are doing a lot to provide it.

Yup, the problem lies somewhere between where the money gets handed off and where it gets spent.

Also the other factor of that is the individual willing to commit and sustain that commitment to that education goal

 Frazzled wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Why didn't the GOP candidates (other than Grahm) refute Trump about Mexican immigrants being rapsists? Goose meet gander. We are well and truly OT. And I'm from the Midwest, like smack dab center, not the Left coast.

Because Trump isn't to be taken seriously, unlike some of these other groups who aren't actually fringe.
.

1. Most of them have.
2 While thats not an accurate statement, it is a matter of record that there has been an inflow of crime from illegal aliens. Whether its a rate higher or lower than natives is irrelevant.
For example if you look at California prisons, the a substantial minority, if not majority come from Mexico and Central America. Indeed, MS13 was started that way.

They only really started attacking him after he made his McCain statements. Cruz even requested a meeting with Trump after that. And the rest of your post tries to actually defend his statement and makes up excuses/qualify his claim. Wow dude, I'm done with you.

So we're all in agreement that it's not the money, but where it's going, that is lacking. If only there were some sort of programme that redistributed money to disadvantaged people in order to compensate for the fact that they're less likely to attain higher education...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So we're all in agreement that it's not the money, but where it's going, that is lacking. If only there were some sort of programme that redistributed money to disadvantaged people in order to compensate for the fact that they're less likely to attain higher education...

Except that program discriminates based on race.

I would say "excludes race"

Edit

List of Federal Scholarship programs
http://www.state.gov/m/dghr/flo/c21963.htm

No its discrimination.

Poor white people, who need money just as much as anyone, are ineligible for a lot of money because they are white.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Why didn't the GOP candidates (other than Grahm) refute Trump about Mexican immigrants being rapsists? Goose meet gander. We are well and truly OT. And I'm from the Midwest, like smack dab center, not the Left coast.

Because Trump isn't to be taken seriously, unlike some of these other groups who aren't actually fringe.
.

1. Most of them have.
2 While thats not an accurate statement, it is a matter of record that there has been an inflow of crime from illegal aliens. Whether its a rate higher or lower than natives is irrelevant.
For example if you look at California prisons, the a substantial minority, if not majority come from Mexico and Central America. Indeed, MS13 was started that way.

They only really started attacking him after he made his McCain statements. Cruz even requested a meeting with Trump after that. And the rest of your post tries to actually defend his statement and makes up excuses/qualify his claim. Wow dude, I'm done with you.

Don't ever ever accuse me of defending Cruz on anything other than yes he is human. Perry did. Bush did. Walker did.

To the Clown's point though I will note:
http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2015/07/22/alien-crime-wave-in-texas-611234-crimes-2993-murders/


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So we're all in agreement that it's not the money, but where it's going, that is lacking. If only there were some sort of programme that redistributed money to disadvantaged people in order to compensate for the fact that they're less likely to attain higher education...

1. The Democratic Party is against vouchers.
2. AA does do this.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So we're all in agreement that it's not the money, but where it's going, that is lacking. If only there were some sort of programme that redistributed money to disadvantaged people in order to compensate for the fact that they're less likely to attain higher education...

You are being ignorant.

Look at the amount spent in minority heavy cities:

2010 numbers: Washington, D.C., schools topped per-pupil spending at $18,667 New York City School District spent the most per student in 2010 at $19,597

http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/21/which-places-spent-most-per-student-on-education/


This PDF table 15 lays out expenditures by school system: http://www2.census.gov/govs/school/11f33pub.pdf

The Rochester School District spends more money per pupil than nearly any other large school district in the country, according to newly released U.S. census data.

The district spent $20,333 on each of its 30,145 students in 2013

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2015/06/03/rochester-school-district-per-pupil-spending-highest/28413437/

The district is very minority heavy and poor: http://www.rcsdk12.org/domain/8

60.1% African American/Black
25.6% Hispanic
10.2% White
4.1% Asian/Native American/East Indian/Other

84% eligible for free/reduced-price lunch
16.5% with special needs
10% with limited English proficiency
87 different languages
22% of schools at 90% poverty or higher
Highest poverty rate among NYS Big 5 districts

And yet...

According to a new report from the Schott Foundation for Public Education, the Rochester City School District graduates the lowest rate of Black male students in the entire country.

http://wxxinews.org/post/new-report-rcsd-graduates-lowest-rate-black-males-us

So again, money IS being spent where you want it to be. And it isn't making the difference you want it to make.

 Frazzled wrote:

 skyth wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Well as Netroots taught us, the Democrat party doesn't believe all lives matter.

I'm calling BS on that one.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/activists-disrupt-forum-featuring-candidates-omalley-sanders/2015/07/18/ca64eb34-2d60-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/bernie-sanders-netroots-nation-black-lives-matter/
.

Having a problem with people spouting 'all lives matter' in response to 'black lives matter' is not saying that all lives don't matter. Spouting off 'all lives matter' is insulting and totally misses the point. It is dishonest and ignores the point. No one disagrees with or has to be reminded that all lives matter (other than Tea party members).

The thought that saying "all lives matter" is insulting is what the average person would call "insane."

 Frazzled wrote:
The thought that saying "all lives matter" is insulting is what the average person would call "insane."

You're taking what was just said out of context. It's dishonest and quite frankly beneath you.