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Sorry, but affirmative action is not really racist. All it does is, assuming everyone is equally qualified, give the opportunity to the minority. This is because to be seen as equally qualified, the minority likely had to work harder and actually be more qualified.

 skyth wrote:
Sorry, but affirmative action is not really racist. All it does is, assuming everyone is equally qualified, give the opportunity to the minority. This is because to be seen as equally qualified, the minority likely had to work harder and actually be more qualified.

That is the very definition of racism.

"We don't know about you or your past, but we know you are black so the job is yours over those whites we also do not know the past of"

You are assuming they had it hard because they are black.

Racist. Racist indeed.

 skyth wrote:
Sorry, but affirmative action is not really racist. All it does is, assuming everyone is equally qualified, give the opportunity to the minority. This is because to be seen as equally qualified, the minority likely had to work harder and actually be more qualified.

That assumption is technically racist.



I often come from the position of whether or not they are qualified or if they know how to do it. Not what bloody race they are.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 skyth wrote:
Sorry, but affirmative action is not really racist. All it does is, assuming everyone is equally qualified, give the opportunity to the minority. This is because to be seen as equally qualified, the minority likely had to work harder and actually be more qualified.

That is the very definition of racism.

"We don't know about you or your past, but we know you are black so the job is yours over those whites we also do not know the past of"

You are assuming they had it hard because they are black.

Racist. Racist indeed.

The thing was, before the affirmitive action was put into place, the university would tend to have given the place to an equally qualified white person. Because they have institutional biases. Saying that the affirmitive action is racist ignores the (already existing and a massive problem) institutional racism against black students.

Crystal-Maze wrote:


The thing was, before the affirmitive action was put into place, the university would tend to have given the place to an equally qualified white person. Because they have institutional biases. Saying that the affirmitive action is racist ignores the (already existing and a massive problem) institutional racism against black students.

Double racism doesn't cancel each other out..

Crystal-Maze wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 skyth wrote:
Sorry, but affirmative action is not really racist. All it does is, assuming everyone is equally qualified, give the opportunity to the minority. This is because to be seen as equally qualified, the minority likely had to work harder and actually be more qualified.

That is the very definition of racism.

"We don't know about you or your past, but we know you are black so the job is yours over those whites we also do not know the past of"

You are assuming they had it hard because they are black.

Racist. Racist indeed.

The thing was, before the affirmitive action was put into place, the university would tend to have given the place to an equally qualified white person. Because they have institutional biases. Saying that the affirmitive action is racist ignores the (already existing and a massive problem) institutional racism against black students.

You really can't make that assumption especially if we don't know peoples financial situation otherwise if it is a poor white family vs a middle income black family. The white family will get screwed because of the lack of scholarships for anyone that is white.

It may seem like a boohoo for a white family, but it is unfair. The education system is a gakky system that is pretty terrible at teaching large groups of people.

Race is not a qualifier of getting an education, your intelligence and dillgience to succeed is a higher priority for schools than what race you are. (Or it should be)

 Asherian Command wrote:

Crystal-Maze wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 skyth wrote:
Sorry, but affirmative action is not really racist. All it does is, assuming everyone is equally qualified, give the opportunity to the minority. This is because to be seen as equally qualified, the minority likely had to work harder and actually be more qualified.

That is the very definition of racism.

"We don't know about you or your past, but we know you are black so the job is yours over those whites we also do not know the past of"

You are assuming they had it hard because they are black.

Racist. Racist indeed.

The thing was, before the affirmitive action was put into place, the university would tend to have given the place to an equally qualified white person. Because they have institutional biases. Saying that the affirmitive action is racist ignores the (already existing and a massive problem) institutional racism against black students.

You really can't make that assumption especially if we don't know peoples financial situation otherwise if it is a poor white family vs a middle income black family. The white family will get screwed because of the lack of scholarships for anyone that is white.

It may seem like a boohoo for a white family, but it is unfair. The education system is a gakky system that is pretty terrible at teaching large groups of people.

Race is not a qualifier of getting an education, your intelligence and dillgience to succeed is a higher priority for schools than what race you are. (Or it should be)

That sounds like you need more scholarships for low income students, not less aid for black students getting into university.

Intelligence and diligence are the bigger priority. But it tended to be the case in the past that the white people got the places, because of the whole institutional bias thing.

I was fortunate - I'm white as milk, but there were a lot of scholarships kicking around for low-income families in my country.

This has got to be Satire.

Most of the thread seems to be.

MB

Crystal-Maze wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

Crystal-Maze wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 skyth wrote:
Sorry, but affirmative action is not really racist. All it does is, assuming everyone is equally qualified, give the opportunity to the minority. This is because to be seen as equally qualified, the minority likely had to work harder and actually be more qualified.

That is the very definition of racism.

"We don't know about you or your past, but we know you are black so the job is yours over those whites we also do not know the past of"

You are assuming they had it hard because they are black.

Racist. Racist indeed.

The thing was, before the affirmitive action was put into place, the university would tend to have given the place to an equally qualified white person. Because they have institutional biases. Saying that the affirmitive action is racist ignores the (already existing and a massive problem) institutional racism against black students.

You really can't make that assumption especially if we don't know peoples financial situation otherwise if it is a poor white family vs a middle income black family. The white family will get screwed because of the lack of scholarships for anyone that is white.

It may seem like a boohoo for a white family, but it is unfair. The education system is a gakky system that is pretty terrible at teaching large groups of people.

Race is not a qualifier of getting an education, your intelligence and dillgience to succeed is a higher priority for schools than what race you are. (Or it should be)

That sounds like you need more scholarships for low income students, not less aid for black students getting into university.

Intelligence and diligence are the bigger priority. But it tended to be the case in the past that the white people got the places, because of the whole institutional bias thing.

I was fortunate - I'm white as milk, but there were a lot of scholarships kicking around for low-income families in my country.

In the states your lucky to even be able to be eligible for one. You need to fit alot of parameters. And have to be a specific field or you have to have this ACT score, or this SATA, or any of the other billion things they have requirements for. I saw twelve scholarships for my field and 10 of them were for minorities and the other two you had to be a junior level or above.

Yeah that is completely fair.

Just try getting a Scholarship if you are over 30.

MB

BeAfraid wrote:
Just try getting a Scholarship if you are over 30.

MB

Exactly

Scholarships are so bloody hard to attain if you are not a minority. Its a stupidly flawed system. As the system also requires you to fill out a resume and you have to fill out an essay, then you have to wait and get approved, and then once you are approve you go on a waiting list. Welcome to the United States education system.

Affirmative Action is a different animal compare to racism

As for positive racism
I seriously seriously outright have intense hatred towards those who fall in my "Insurgent" column.

 Jihadin wrote:
Affirmative Action is a different animal compare to racism

As for positive racism
I seriously seriously outright have intense hatred towards those who fall in my "Insurgent" column.

"Insurgent" isn't a race. Thats not racism.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Affirmative Action is a different animal compare to racism

As for positive racism
I seriously seriously outright have intense hatred towards those who fall in my "Insurgent" column.

"Insurgent" isn't a race. Thats not racism.

Is it not a class of people?
Its my perception so I am racist towards them. End. Of. Story.
Stop pissing in my corn flakes dammit

 Jihadin wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Affirmative Action is a different animal compare to racism

As for positive racism
I seriously seriously outright have intense hatred towards those who fall in my "Insurgent" column.

"Insurgent" isn't a race. Thats not racism.

Is it not a class of people?
Its my perception so I am racist towards them. End. Of. Story.
Stop pissing in my corn flakes dammit

At worst, its Classism. Under no definition is it racism.

Yeah, tho only racism would be if you thought all middle-eastern people were terrorists, or something like that.

Funny how many people here think it is perfectly ok to be racist towards white people to compensate other races. Its even more astounding that they then don't consider this to be racism but instead some form of equality check. I know racism still exists but we have enough BS in this world without getting into this

 Asherian Command wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:
Just try getting a Scholarship if you are over 30.

MB

Exactly

Scholarships are so bloody hard to attain if you are not a minority. Its a stupidly flawed system. As the system also requires you to fill out a resume and you have to fill out an essay, then you have to wait and get approved, and then once you are approve you go on a waiting list. Welcome to the United States education system.

I would not say so.

Most people I know have gotten scholarships (and they are white, male, and in their 20s).

I technically AM a minority, as far as that goes. Especially for Scholarships.

The problem is that they are aimed at people between the ages of 17 and 30, and only about five scholarships exist for people over the age of 30 (and three of those are what they call "Re-entry Scholarships, for people who have been out of school for at least five years).

My grades are such that I would qualify for any number of scholarships.

The problems we have are structural issues with how Schools are financed in the USA, which have to do with cuts in funding at the Federal and State Level that used to subsidize Public Universities.

Scholarships USED to be something you only worried about if you went to a Private University.

Currently, I HAVE a Scholarship to UCLA. It covers 100% of my tuition and fees.

Unfortunately.... I need money for living expenses. Which is where ALMOST ALL Scholarships let down students. the VAST MAJORITY of Scholarships do not provide for living expenses, leaving recipients often unable to benefit from the Scholarship. They can afford the school, just not living near enough to the school to attend it.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, it is not racism to compensate for structural advantages that Whites have had in the USA for the last 200+ years, which resulted in the marginalization and denial of opportunity to minorities.

This is no different than balancing a checkbook.

If one is overdrawn, then one must return the money to the bank that one has taken from them.

Only, in this case, it is the White population making up for, and re-paying, the opportunities it stole from minorities through structural marginalization of those minorities and ethnic groups (NOT "RACES" - race does not exist as being think it does).

MB

And, it is not racism to compensate for structural advantages that Whites have had in the USA for the last 200+ years, which resulted in the marginalization and denial of opportunity to minorities.

So... just because I'm white I'm suddenly responsible for the sins of various other white people who I don't know and have largely never met because most of them are long since dead?

My family is half slavic. My family is just as guilty of slavery as the africans are.

You know because the word slave doesn't come from SLAVIC.

I think overall scholarships should not be limited by race, but by ability. It would be well fair. If you aren't a fantastic student you still can get movie

 DarkLink wrote:

And, it is not racism to compensate for structural advantages that Whites have had in the USA for the last 200+ years, which resulted in the marginalization and denial of opportunity to minorities.

So... just because I'm white I'm suddenly responsible for the sins of various other white people who I don't know and have largely never met because most of them are long since dead?

Yep.

They don't call it "Structural" for no reason.

It means that just by being white in our society you benefit unfairly from that condition.

You have opportunities that are denied to those who are non-white, just because you are white.

Thus, ALL of society collectively shifts to compensate.

You are a part of ALL whether you wish to be or not.


MB

BeAfraid wrote:

 DarkLink wrote:

And, it is not racism to compensate for structural advantages that Whites have had in the USA for the last 200+ years, which resulted in the marginalization and denial of opportunity to minorities.

So... just because I'm white I'm suddenly responsible for the sins of various other white people who I don't know and have largely never met because most of them are long since dead?

Yep.

They don't call it "Structural" for no reason.

It means that just by being white in our society you benefit unfairly from that condition.

You have opportunities that are denied to those who are non-white, just because you are white.

Thus, ALL of society collectively shifts to compensate.

You are a part of ALL whether you wish to be or not.


MB

So I come from a moderately poor family, Apparently I have privilege because my family is white. Even though I am a second generation american? Yep defiantly.

Could someone explain to me why I am privileged because I am white without sounding racist and dumb?

 Asherian Command wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:
Just try getting a Scholarship if you are over 30.

MB

Exactly

Scholarships are so bloody hard to attain if you are not a minority. Its a stupidly flawed system. As the system also requires you to fill out a resume and you have to fill out an essay, then you have to wait and get approved, and then once you are approve you go on a waiting list. Welcome to the United States education system.

No, they actually aren't. I serve on a scholarship board (one of the three required service positions I am required to have at my university.) About a quarter of the money available doesn't get doled out each year for one basic reason: prospective eligible students do not apply. I don't know if they are too lazy or just don't put forward an effort to learn about them, but the money just sits there, year after year earning interest. The next year the scholarships increase in value. Nowhere on any of those scholarships except four (about thirty total in my Dept.) is race even asked, and those are because of stipulations of the private donor. It is a state university in the Midwest. I know anecdotal evidence is suspect, but this fact that many scholarships do not get filled because students do not apply is quite common.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:
Just try getting a Scholarship if you are over 30.

MB

Exactly

Scholarships are so bloody hard to attain if you are not a minority. Its a stupidly flawed system. As the system also requires you to fill out a resume and you have to fill out an essay, then you have to wait and get approved, and then once you are approve you go on a waiting list. Welcome to the United States education system.

No, they actually aren't. I serve on a scholarship board (one of the three required service positions I am required to have at my university.) About a quarter of the money available doesn't get doled out each year for one basic reason: prospective eligible students do not apply. I don't know if they are too lazy or just don't put forward an effort to learn about them, but the money just sits there, year after year earning interest. The next year the scholarships increase in value. Nowhere on any of those scholarships except four (about thirty total in my Dept.) is race even asked, and those are because of stipulations of the private donor. It is a state university in the Midwest.

That is pretty much what I have found.

The issues I have with scholarships are entirely different than thinking someone is unfairly advantaged (other than being younger than 30).

I am more pissed that more is not covered by many scholarships. But there are a HUGE number of scholarships that get handed out to anyone who applies.

MB

 Asherian Command wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:

 DarkLink wrote:

And, it is not racism to compensate for structural advantages that Whites have had in the USA for the last 200+ years, which resulted in the marginalization and denial of opportunity to minorities.

So... just because I'm white I'm suddenly responsible for the sins of various other white people who I don't know and have largely never met because most of them are long since dead?

Yep.

They don't call it "Structural" for no reason.

It means that just by being white in our society you benefit unfairly from that condition.

You have opportunities that are denied to those who are non-white, just because you are white.

Thus, ALL of society collectively shifts to compensate.

You are a part of ALL whether you wish to be or not.


MB

So I come from a moderately poor family, Apparently I have privilege because my family is white. Even though I am a second generation american? Yep defiantly.

Could someone explain to me why I am privileged because I am white without sounding racist and dumb?

He doesn't care mate, he is judging you because of your skin colour not because of your character. But don't worry, it ain't racist you are white...

Yea sorry, sounds racist still.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:
Just try getting a Scholarship if you are over 30.

MB

Exactly

Scholarships are so bloody hard to attain if you are not a minority. Its a stupidly flawed system. As the system also requires you to fill out a resume and you have to fill out an essay, then you have to wait and get approved, and then once you are approve you go on a waiting list. Welcome to the United States education system.

No, they actually aren't. I serve on a scholarship board (one of the three required service positions I am required to have at my university.) About a quarter of the money available doesn't get doled out each year for one basic reason: prospective eligible students do not apply. I don't know if they are too lazy or just don't put forward an effort to learn about them, but the money just sits there, year after year earning interest. The next year the scholarships increase in value. Nowhere on any of those scholarships except four (about thirty total in my Dept.) is race even asked, and those are because of stipulations of the private donor. It is a state university in the Midwest.

So maybe its just my school O.o

Hmm I'll keep that in mind. Do you think there should be more scholarships then? That seem more appealing or is it that it is not advertised?

BeAfraid wrote:

 DarkLink wrote:

And, it is not racism to compensate for structural advantages that Whites have had in the USA for the last 200+ years, which resulted in the marginalization and denial of opportunity to minorities.

So... just because I'm white I'm suddenly responsible for the sins of various other white people who I don't know and have largely never met because most of them are long since dead?

Yep.

They don't call it "Structural" for no reason.

It means that just by being white in our society you benefit unfairly from that condition.

You have opportunities that are denied to those who are non-white, just because you are white.

Thus, ALL of society collectively shifts to compensate.

You are a part of ALL whether you wish to be or not.


MB

And... you understand that saying that I'm responsible for other people's actions because I'm white is literally the definition of racism, right? I mean, you could argue that it's good racism, I suppose, but you'd have to be illiterate or stupid to genuinely think that it's not racism to classify someone based on their race.

 DarkLink wrote:
And... you understand that saying that I'm responsible for other people's actions because I'm white is literally the definition of racism, right? I mean, you could argue that it's good racism, I suppose, but you'd have to be illiterate or stupid to genuinely think that it's not racism to classify someone based on their race.

You're adding 'responsible' in there. No-one else is ascribing personal responsibility to you.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:

 DarkLink wrote:

And, it is not racism to compensate for structural advantages that Whites have had in the USA for the last 200+ years, which resulted in the marginalization and denial of opportunity to minorities.

So... just because I'm white I'm suddenly responsible for the sins of various other white people who I don't know and have largely never met because most of them are long since dead?

Yep.

They don't call it "Structural" for no reason.

It means that just by being white in our society you benefit unfairly from that condition.

You have opportunities that are denied to those who are non-white, just because you are white.

Thus, ALL of society collectively shifts to compensate.

You are a part of ALL whether you wish to be or not.


MB

So I come from a moderately poor family, Apparently I have privilege because my family is white. Even though I am a second generation american? Yep defiantly.

Could someone explain to me why I am privileged because I am white without sounding racist and dumb?

He doesn't care mate, he is judging you because of your skin colour not because of your character. But don't worry, it ain't racist you are white...

Yea sorry, sounds racist still.

Why is it that the people most eager to apologize for racism are also the same ones most eager to claim being a victim?

This situation is no different than if we lived in a society where our opportunities were selected based upon how quickly we could run 500 yards.

People who had shorter legs in that situation would automatically be at a disadvantage.

It doesn't mean that some people with long legs might not be able to run very fast (like some poor white people are ignorant of the advantages they have for being white), it just means that those with long legs are going to TEND to be advantaged over those with shorter legs.

Or, think of it as being in a classroom, and your grade at the end of the year was determined by being able to sit at your desk and throw a wadded up piece of paper into a trash can set at the front of the room.

Yes, some people in the front row would miss the shot, and some people at the back of the class would be lucky or skilled enough to make the shot.

But overall, those at the front of the class are advantaged over those are the back of the class.

Not being able to understand this, and confusing it with "Racism" is a part of the problem the group of people at the front of the class who missed the basket tend to have in their rush to blame someone else.

MB

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:
Just try getting a Scholarship if you are over 30.

MB

Exactly

Scholarships are so bloody hard to attain if you are not a minority. Its a stupidly flawed system. As the system also requires you to fill out a resume and you have to fill out an essay, then you have to wait and get approved, and then once you are approve you go on a waiting list. Welcome to the United States education system.

No, they actually aren't. I serve on a scholarship board (one of the three required service positions I am required to have at my university.) About a quarter of the money available doesn't get doled out each year for one basic reason: prospective eligible students do not apply. I don't know if they are too lazy or just don't put forward an effort to learn about them, but the money just sits there, year after year earning interest. The next year the scholarships increase in value. Nowhere on any of those scholarships except four (about thirty total in my Dept.) is race even asked, and those are because of stipulations of the private donor. It is a state university in the Midwest.

So maybe its just my school O.o

Hmm I'll keep that in mind. Do you think there should be more scholarships then? That seem more appealing or is it that it is not advertised?

I'm not sure about your school, but most schools don't advertise most of their scholarships (it is an easy way for admins. to redistribute the money if it isn't stipulated that the interest must stay in the specific college offering the scholarship.) Go to the secretary of your Dept. S/he will have a pamphlet or spreadsheet of all the scholarships your Dept. offers. Then go to Student Affairs, they will have a handout of general university scholarships. Also, do a search online. Many companies/institutions also offer scholarships that they don't really advertise (they can get a tax write off for donations and they can pocket whatever money goes unclaimed.)

Also, you say you will "keep that in mind" and complain about a short essay: that is the reason there are millions of dollars that universities/colleges pocket: quit complaining, get off your duff, write a short essay, and get your college paid for. There is really no reason for any student In the US to owe money for an undergrad degree other than simple laziness. Sorry to be blunt, but it's the truth.