CSM Codex Predictions

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**Matt.Kingsley**

kk

I didn't realise CSMs were winning every tournament ever with their '0-thought-required instant win button' broken-necked helturkey.

**Typically-Wardian**

Because most people aren't waac tfg's.

**SHUPPET**

Typically-Wardian wrote:
Selym wrote:

Bring a heldrake? I'm a WAAC TFG.

Bring a LRBT to 500 pts? Won't even play me.
Bringing a heldrake DOES make you a tfg. It's a no-thought-required win button. And a lrbt at 500 points is overkill.

oh god

learn to play the game first, try to tell people whats unbalanced second

**Selym**

I see the madness continues...

**Typically-Wardian**

SHUPPET wrote:
Typically-Wardian wrote:
Selym wrote:

Bring a heldrake? I'm a WAAC TFG.

Bring a LRBT to 500 pts? Won't even play me.
Bringing a heldrake DOES make you a tfg. It's a no-thought-required win button. And a lrbt at 500 points is overkill.

oh god

learn to play the game first, try to tell people whats unbalanced second

Yes, because "l2p" is the correct response to cheese. CSM players whine about how other army's stuff is broken, but won't hear a word against their playstyle.

**Dantes_Baals**

The guys a troll. He got half the posters in this thread and pretty much everybody in the IG thread.

**SHUPPET**

Dantes_Baals wrote:
The guys a troll. He got half the posters in this thread and pretty much everybody in the IG thread.

Yeah, he's made it on to my ignore list in the space of 2 posts, I just reported the offending content and moved on, let's just continue discussion

**Slayer-Fan123**

Wait until you hear Jancoran defend the state of AM and CSM! That'll give you a REAL headache!

**Selym**

Good plan.

So; hypocrisy in 40k..

The loyalists are happy to get enraged about an Ap3 flamer, but having their units all be mathematically better than our in every way is just fine.

**Slayer-Fan123**

I'm a person that's used both Loyalist and Traitor rules.

The fact that the Heldrake doesn't have a 180 degree firing arc is bonkers.

**Oldmike**

Selym wrote:
Good plan.

So; hypocrisy in 40k..

The loyalists are happy to get enraged about an Ap3 flamer, but having their units all be mathematically better than our in every way is just fine.

Funny story one Eldar player crys about my typhoon tank as it ignores jink yet takes at lest one WK and one W guard D flamers

**thepowerfulwill**

A tau player just today practically BEGGED not to bring any psykers or demoms, but thought it was both fair, hilarious, and AWESOME, to bring a riptide, two broadsides and two units of crisis suits all upgraded to terra and back in a friendly 1000 point game. He even cheered everytime he killed something. Which was often...

**SHUPPET**

thepowerfulwill wrote:
A tau player just today practically BEGGED not to bring any psykers or demoms, but thought it was both fair, hilarious, and AWESOME, to bring a riptide, two broadsides and two units of crisis suits all upgraded to terra and back in a friendly 1000 point game. He even cheered everytime he killed something. Which was often...

oh god. The worst. What were you taking him on with, out of curiosity?

**thepowerfulwill**

SHUPPET wrote:
thepowerfulwill wrote:
A tau player just today practically BEGGED not to bring any psykers or demoms, but thought it was both fair, hilarious, and AWESOME, to bring a riptide, two broadsides and two units of crisis suits all upgraded to terra and back in a friendly 1000 point game. He even cheered everytime he killed something. Which was often...

what did you bring, out of curiosity?

I had,
one tac squad in a rhino with a heavy bolter
One squad of assult geared termies with a terminator lord in a land raider
One squad cultists (no upgrades) with a sorcerer
A single chaos spawn
And one helbrute with power fist, heavy flamer and power scourge.
all wysiwyg

**Dantes_Baals**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm a person that's used both Loyalist and Traitor rules.

The fact that the Heldrake doesn't have a 180 degree firing arc is bonkers.

Ditto. Currently run both sides of the Imperial schism. CSM was my second army, but then I got into Demonkin. As of late I've been running them almost exclusively when I run heretics, but every now and then I'll run my emperors children (got a legit deal on 6 box sets of 4th Ed noise marines).

**Oldmike**

I am at the core a follower of change (almost have 10k in total points) but I have 3k blood ravens (aka loyalists thousand sons) and 3k tau as I got sick of losing as the game dose not support mono gods unless you're like blood or rot

**Dantes_Baals**

My pleasure list took 2nd place at a recent north Houston tournament. Granted, I was summoning like it was going out of style, but I did run over 800 points of power armored CSM in the list

**motyak**

Calling everyone who disagrees with you a 'tfg' is hardly polite, and adds nothing to the thread. Find actual points to make and to argue, or don't post in this thread

**Abadabadoobaddon**

aka_mythos wrote:
Lack of cohesive vision is the first sin of all the present CSM books. There isn't any clear intersection of fluff and rules that would lead you to understand how CSM are meant to function and thus prescribe a play style for example in a way that SM drop pods fit fiction, they rules follow those, and direct a particular play style. Instead we have a nebulous mess where we're expected to kinda-sorta-maybe concoct something that's is some times just count-as-close, but never really achieves anything coming close to the fluff.

GW seems to want to say "there is no such thing as typical chaos army" and yet in their generic nebulous codex writing has so drastically limited what the rules can represent that it represents nothing.

I disagree. I think GW has a perfectly clear vision of what they want CSM to be. And it's called "target practice".

Just take a look at the Black Legion supplement. They actually advocate taking unupgraded 20 man squads with no special weapons and walking them up the field. If that doesn't scream "cannon fodder army" then I don't know what does. If that's how they think CSM should play then it really doesn't matter how many updates we get, there's no hope for the faction, period.

**thepowerfulwill**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
aka_mythos wrote:
Lack of cohesive vision is the first sin of all the present CSM books. There isn't any clear intersection of fluff and rules that would lead you to understand how CSM are meant to function and thus prescribe a play style for example in a way that SM drop pods fit fiction, they rules follow those, and direct a particular play style. Instead we have a nebulous mess where we're expected to kinda-sorta-maybe concoct something that's is some times just count-as-close, but never really achieves anything coming close to the fluff.

GW seems to want to say "there is no such thing as typical chaos army" and yet in their generic nebulous codex writing has so drastically limited what the rules can represent that it represents nothing.

I disagree. I think GW has a perfectly clear vision of what they want CSM to be. And it's called "target practice".

Just take a look at the Black Legion supplement. They actually advocate taking unupgraded 20 man squads with no special weapons and walking them up the field. If that doesn't scream "cannon fodder army" then I don't know what does. If that's how they think CSM should play then it really doesn't matter how many updates we get, there's no hope for the faction, period.

Where does it advocate are that, out of curiosity? And it might not be target practice, just a very very poorly thought out idea of a more elite horde army.

**cuda1179**

Does anyone remember the old-school rules Orks had, where if a shot passes through a grot unit, the boys unit behind it gets a cover save at the expense of loosing a grot? I think a rule similar to that would be great in regards to Cultists. Chaos marines view them as little more than cannon fodder anyway, so completely fluffy, plus it adds some durability to the Marines.

For the love of God, make possessed worth the points. They have awesome models, but such crap rules.

Also, Helbrutes need to be a viable alternative to the Dinobots.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

thepowerfulwill wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
aka_mythos wrote:
Lack of cohesive vision is the first sin of all the present CSM books. There isn't any clear intersection of fluff and rules that would lead you to understand how CSM are meant to function and thus prescribe a play style for example in a way that SM drop pods fit fiction, they rules follow those, and direct a particular play style. Instead we have a nebulous mess where we're expected to kinda-sorta-maybe concoct something that's is some times just count-as-close, but never really achieves anything coming close to the fluff.

GW seems to want to say "there is no such thing as typical chaos army" and yet in their generic nebulous codex writing has so drastically limited what the rules can represent that it represents nothing.

I disagree. I think GW has a perfectly clear vision of what they want CSM to be. And it's called "target practice".

Just take a look at the Black Legion supplement. They actually advocate taking unupgraded 20 man squads with no special weapons and walking them up the field. If that doesn't scream "cannon fodder army" then I don't know what does. If that's how they think CSM should play then it really doesn't matter how many updates we get, there's no hope for the faction, period.

Where does it advocate are that, out of curiosity? And it might not be target practice, just a very very poorly thought out idea of a more elite horde army.

In "The Black Crusades" section, the subsection entitled "Overwhelming Force". I don't know if they removed it in the update. Read it and despair.

**Motograter**

If you want a decent chaos army outside heresy rules. The best and only option is to use the loyalist books which are more chaos legions than chaos will ever be

**Hawehu@hotmail.com**

I hope we get cheaper csm troops, with the same rules.

I hope we get more powerful Aspirung champions.

I hope we get more survivable chosen.

I hope we get assault rhino.

I hope we get cultist coversaves for cannonfodder tactics.

I hope we get deadlier khorne berzerkers.

I hope we get cheaper thousand sons.

I hope we get better BS forgefiend.

I hope we get better dark apostle.

I hope we get more attacks helbrute with fnp.

I hope we get more land raider variants.

I hope we get new models on almost all our minis.

**Runic**

Motograter wrote:
If you want a decent chaos army outside heresy rules. The best and only option is to use the loyalist books which are more chaos legions than chaos will ever be

The new Cyclopial Cabal combined with Khorne Daemonkin makes for a decently competitive deathstar.

**aka_mythos**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
thepowerfulwill wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
aka_mythos wrote:
Lack of cohesive vision is the first sin of all the present CSM books. There isn't any clear intersection of fluff and rules that would lead you to understand how CSM are meant to function and thus prescribe a play style for example in a way that SM drop pods fit fiction, they rules follow those, and direct a particular play style. Instead we have a nebulous mess where we're expected to kinda-sorta-maybe concoct something that's is some times just count-as-close, but never really achieves anything coming close to the fluff.

GW seems to want to say "there is no such thing as typical chaos army" and yet in their generic nebulous codex writing has so drastically limited what the rules can represent that it represents nothing.

I disagree. I think GW has a perfectly clear vision of what they want CSM to be. And it's called "target practice".

Just take a look at the Black Legion supplement. They actually advocate taking unupgraded 20 man squads with no special weapons and walking them up the field. If that doesn't scream "cannon fodder army" then I don't know what does. If that's how they think CSM should play then it really doesn't matter how many updates we get, there's no hope for the faction, period.

Where does it advocate are that, out of curiosity? And it might not be target practice, just a very very poorly thought out idea of a more elite horde army.

In "The Black Crusades" section, the subsection entitled "Overwhelming Force". I don't know if they removed it in the update. Read it and despair.

Has anyone tried 120 CSM marching up the field? Maybe it'd work... Maybe?

**Selym**

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
I hope we get cheaper csm troops, with the same rules.

I hope we get more powerful Aspirung champions.

I hope we get more survivable chosen.

I hope we get assault rhino.

I hope we get cultist coversaves for cannonfodder tactics.

I hope we get deadlier khorne berzerkers.

I hope we get cheaper thousand sons.

I hope we get better BS forgefiend.

I hope we get better dark apostle.

I hope we get more attacks helbrute with fnp.

I hope we get more land raider variants.

I hope we get new models on almost all our minis.

We said the same thing for the current supplements, their previous iterations, and the last two codexes.

Taint gonna happen.

**Wulfmar**

I wonder if GW has noticed any decrease in CSM sales over time.

**Selym**

Probably did, but thought that meant we weren't interested in CSM getting any boosts.

**Korinov**

Amusingly enough, in past year the 10-man CSM box was one of the best-selling kits, at least as far as direct online sales are concerned.