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 LunarSol wrote:

Comic readers saw Jean as a character who would NEVER go bad while modern audiences see her character as one destined to. That really takes a lot of fangs out of the story as a whole, as every time the character is included in a new adaptation, you're seeing how they'll try to angle her into the Dark Phoenix role.

that is a really good observation. I wonder if a bait and switch would have worked, Jean resists the Phoenix so it migrates to a new host it can reshape any way it wants - Mystique!

It would actually give Jennifer Lawrence something to do too...

 LordofHats wrote:
I find myself agreeing with LunaSol. I never thought much of it, but maybe the reason Dark Phoenix stuff in adaptations has felt so lame so consistently is that it's just a one hit wonder. A one hit wonder that shadows the Jean Gray character such that it's impossible for it to ever have the same impact ever again.

That's.... distressingly true.

Perhaps then the best answer is to NOT do the Phoenix story again, even if that means we never see it done well on screen.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/x-men-dark-phoenix-failure-box-office-sophie-turner-chris-claremont-a8965631.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

"“First you had Captain Marvel, then you had Avengers Endgame, then you had Dark Phoenix, and ... Spiderman [Far From Home]. So suddenly it’s boom, boom, boom, boom instead of a single boom, and that makes any analysis of the film and how it related to the original concept and how it related to the film’s original concept significantly more complicated.”"

“It’s just that in just sheer weight of numbers, what did X-Men: Dark Phoenix have? It had Sophie. And what did Avengers have? Twenty-eight A-list stars,” he added.

McAvoy, Fassbender, J-Law, and the rest must be loving that comment...


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 Vulcan wrote:

Perhaps then the best answer is to NOT do the Phoenix story again, even if that means we never see it done well on screen.

FWIW, I think one guy failing to adapt it well twice by making all of the same mistakes is any indication it can't be done; I just also get why it doesn't translate the way people want it to. Lets get one thing out of the way. The Phoenix Force itself is not part of the original text and the retcon is pretty messy on the whole. Technically the retcon removes Jean from the story entirely, as its actually some kind of physical manifestation of psychic energy willed into reality based on Jean (kind of like Onslaught now that I think on it) with the Phoenix using it to experience humanity like some kind slightly less weird version of Being John Malkovich. So while the retcon is pretty beloved largely because Jean as Phoenix is really cool and more iconic than Jean as Marvel Girl or "the one X-Man without a code name" it really messes with the perception of the original story.

There are plenty of ways to do this kind of story though, but at the heart of it you have to make it relatable. Recently Umbrella Academy (and spoilers ahead if you haven't seen/read it) gave us a great example, both by properly creating a character burndened by a lifetime of social constraint lashing out as well as plenty of examples of power being corruptive in the face of adversity. I think legitmately the best "Dark Phoenix" scene in recent memory actually comes from when Allison "rumors" her daughter into cooperation. It's subtle and harmless and relatable and monstrous all in an instant and seeing how quickly it errodes her familial relationships comes across rather organically from there.

That's probably one of the big aspects the X-Men films have lacked. In the comics, they're often presented more as a family, with a lot more emphasis on the school and their developing relationships. I think that's where the potential to do the story justice lies. Emma as a rival for Scott's affection (even incorporating the psychic affair perhaps), Mastermind as the manipulator, play up school level themes like social insecurity and the like focused on that time in life where you just wish you knew what other people were thinking centered on a character who CAN know what everyone is thinking. That's where the escalation can lie in a movie. You just have to get to it before you've already escalated the franchise to dropping sports arenas on DC or whatever it was that happened in Apocalypse.

Just so long as it doesn't turn into a teen angst thing, yuck!

 Vulcan wrote:
Just so long as it doesn't turn into a teen angst thing, yuck!

Was that not what X Men was - A soap opera - Especially the Chris C days?

 LordofHats wrote:
I find myself agreeing with LunaSol. I never thought much of it, but maybe the reason Dark Phoenix stuff in adaptations has felt so lame so consistently is that it's just a one hit wonder. A one hit wonder that shadows the Jean Gray character such that it's impossible for it to ever have the same impact ever again.

I think another problem with adapting DPS is that....well....rereading the original comics storyline, Dark Phoenix is kind of a weak villain. She doesn't really do much except brag about how awesome she is and how she's life and power incarnate, and beat up the X-Men. Even destroying the planet was an accident rather than malicious. If she'd been a new villain, she'd have been pretty forgettable, the dramatic weight of the storyline all came from who Jean had been before she became Dark Phoenix. Retellings seem to struggle with "okay, she's super-powerful and evil....what do we do with her now?".

While acknowleding the messy publication history (which I'm given to understand is chalk full of retcons back and forth), the one thing I've always looked back on Dark Phoenix and thought was cool was the Phoenix Force angle, something most adaptations fail to dive into at all. Rather than a Jean who goes crazy and just starts muderizing, I think these stories might play better for us today by focusing more on the Lovecraftian Phoenix Force.

The Phoenix Force isn't evil per se. It's the literal ultimate embodiment of life. It's just that it's a supreme cosmic being and to it, humans and our wants are but ants in a vast universe. It is intself a much more interesting character and angle than anything I've seen in any Dark Phoenix story, but of course Marvel can't keep itself straight on that front.

Yeah, that's why I was thinking Jessica Chastain as a personification of the Phoenix force to communicate with Jean would have been a good angle to take on it.

Netflix's Umbrella Academy was awesome!