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so where is a good place to get heads for female stodes then? the ones I have seen will all be too small.

i haven't tried this yet, so it might not work, but i was considering using some extra stormcast heads i have in my bits box

 Formosa wrote:
so where is a good place to get heads for female stodes then? the ones I have seen will all be too small.

https://www.statuesqueminiatures.co.uk/heroic-scale-female-heads-xl-techno-roiders



edit.

Responding to the charge that it’s pandering…

So, GW sells boys big, strong power fantasy marines, Diaz-nettes, Imperial Giard based on your favorite movies or historical periods, hot battle nuns in bustiers, space Vikings, space vampires, space templars, anime robots, etc., etc.. but now that it’s not for you, *now* it’s pandering?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
is it not okay for GW to say "hey, so, we made an oopsie?"

if GW would do so, a lot of problems with Warhammer would not be there in the first place

but be it rules, background or releases, they never say that mistakes were made and now they are going to correct them, the problem is that they don't and come up with that the community is wrong and GW alway right and it was us that made the mistakes

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I'm genuinely curious as to what GW "should" have done about this retcon (and before anyone suggests, I'm not going to accept "advance the narrative" - it's very clear that GW weren't going to do this approach).

be excited about the new Codex Custodes that is coming soon, as we have made a correction with the background story were our writes thought the initial take was never quite right, we there are now male and female Custodes so look out for the new awesome minis to buy
PS: for all those fans of SoS, not they are not forgotten and female Custodes does not mean they get removed from the game


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
so where is a good place to get heads for female stodes then? the ones I have seen will all be too small.

depends what you want from the army
I am a fan of the Raging Heroes models in general as I like them more than GW Custodes so would use those

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

I'm genuinely curious as to what GW "should" have done about this retcon

Out of interest (I'm onboard with femstodes): they'd need some plot excuse as to why they were never seen before. Maybe they were guarding Cawl in his cave for 10k years? That still wouldn't explain why only all female custodes were hidden though, it's a weird split to make
in the first place

If I may ask, why do they *need* a plot excuse? Is it not okay for GW to say "hey, so, we made an oopsie?"

Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you were looking for an in-universe way of handling the retcon and considered it a fun puzzle. I'd be fine with them saying "yeah consider them retroactively changed to mixed men/women".

here's my attempt at using a stormcast head for a female custodian, since i realized i had an unassembled blade champion in my box. the only heads i had available were pushfit and required some stuff to be cut off, thus the greenstuff, but i think once it has primer on it, that part will look fine

kodos wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I'm genuinely curious as to what GW "should" have done about this retcon (and before anyone suggests, I'm not going to accept "advance the narrative" - it's very clear that GW weren't going to do this approach).

be excited about the new Codex Custodes that is coming soon, as we have made a correction with the background story were our writes thought the initial take was never quite right, we there are now male and female Custodes so look out for the new awesome minis to buy
PS: for all those fans of SoS, not they are not forgotten and female Custodes does not mean they get removed from the game

shortymcnostrill wrote:Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you were looking for an in-universe way of handling the retcon and considered it a fun puzzle. I'd be fine with them saying "yeah consider them retroactively changed to mixed men/women".

Thank you both for your contributions! shortymcnostrill, no worries, I'd assumed that there'd been a miscommunication! I could happily come up with in-universe ways to "fix" the situation, but ultimately, I don't think that's what GW are aiming for. So I basically just wanted to get a grasp on what the "appropriate" communication should have been from GW.

kodos, likewise, I'd love if GW (and more companies in general!) were more transparent too. Your point would be more than fine to me, and I like the bit about affirming the safety of Sisters of Silence!
As an addendum to that, do you think that this would be enough to please or otherwise calm the nerves of some of the people I've seen calling GW gaslighters? Would this have a more positive effect, them outright saying "our initial bakcground take wasn't quite right, so we've corrected it"? Or would such a statement further radicalise the situation? (Obviously, we can't know for sure, but I'm curious what people think!)

If GW would have come up with something before we would not have the situation it is now

by now it is too late to react and the worst case that can happen now is that we don't get female models for the army

I find it strange that people are complaining about how GW went about their retcon of female Custodes. GW almost never announces they are changing the background. They just do it and leave it to consumers to notice. It's not like there are not a legion of people pouring over every publication for new and changed information and then letting the whole internet know about it.

As for their announcement that there have always been female Custodians, that is a statement of the background as it now exist. It is not an attempt to gaslight you into believing they never produced a product that said the Custodes were all male.

Personally, I'm all for it. Nothing in the background of Warhammer 40,000 suffers if some of the Adeptus Custodes are female. The only question is will they ever produce models that are in any way identifiable as female and will that be more than a feminine head?

 alextroy wrote:

As for their announcement that there have always been female Custodians, that is a statement of the background as it now exist. It is not an attempt to gaslight you into believing they never produced a product that said the Custodes were all male.

None of the quotes that i saw necessarily indicate that they were all male due to the ambiguities in the English language with regards to mixed-gender groups.

Nothing major to add here- I'm fine with it, GW has retconned many things in past, this is not first time for "progressive" or "woke" attitudes in lore, etc.
Just pointing out how unaffected I am by this vs the screaming extremes of either side.
Orks can run an all walker army, that's my takeaway from codexes this week.

If I was GW I'd tell one of my Black Library writers right now to write a shortstory about Custodes 7 in the third row at the Siege of terra who wasn't seen without a helmet and is female.

Then write another shortstory about her how she's killed by the harlequin attack during the War of the Beast 1000years later.

Then write one about a noble house that picks the children that are about to be send to the Custodes and put in a throwaway line why they're traditionally all called 'sons' despite not actually being sons.

It's not hard really because female Custodes don't change the faction at its core and with that armour actually could have always been there.

And now? Always have been there.

That’s the point of GW’s community post. A clear intention that *checks the image* the existence of Calladyce Taurovalia Tesh isn’t a sign of a change to the Custodes recruitment programme. That they’ve decided “nah, they were just always there”.

Merits to both approaches, and drawbacks. But here I quite like the “yeah well that’s the lore now, get on with it” approach.

GW constantly introduces new stuff that was "always there" and most part I think that is better approach. Otherwise the constant flux would create a setting where everything is static for ten millennia and then in the span of a few years a ton of new stuff happens.

Granted, the unfortunate return of the loyalist primarchs has already created the latter situation, so in that sense they can use that mess to justify all kind of changes if they want. 🤷

 Crimson wrote:
GW constantly introduces new stuff that was "always there" and most part I think that is better approach. Otherwise the constant flux would create a setting where everything is static for ten millennia and then in the span of a few years a ton of new stuff happens.

Granted, the unfortunate return of the loyalist primarchs has already created the latter situation, so in that sense they can use that mess to justify all kind of changes if they want. 🤷

Even before Gathering storm they wrote themselves into a corner. Just compare this https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M40 to that https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M41 .
Granted it probably comes form the fact that we're playing 40K, hence that's where all the stories are told, but still, in M41 apparently many things happened that were built up for 10K years (or Millions of years in the case of the Necrons).

Biggest problem is what custodies do in their downtime, if we have female ones we will get criticised.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fabulous-pillar-guardians-tabletop-miniatures#/

The_Real_Chris wrote:
Biggest problem is what custodies do in their downtime, if we have female ones we will get criticised.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fabulous-pillar-guardians-tabletop-miniatures#/

That looks like it’s there to appeal to some weird fetish

I feel like anyone tabling a force of all male Pillar Custodes is going to get just as many dirty looks as someone tabling an all female force of Pillar Custodes. Gotta field both to avoid looking skeezy.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
Biggest problem is what custodies do in their downtime, if we have female ones we will get criticised.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fabulous-pillar-guardians-tabletop-miniatures#/

So, just make some of Jolyne Cujoh- problem solved!

It's very reassuring that most of the comments on Dakka about this 'issue' have been pretty sensible. It's fine to question retconning - it is usually rather clumsily handled, and it can be annoying to have supposedly established fluff overturned - but we all know that GW do it as it suits them. Arguably, it would have been better to deal with the whole upsizing of the Marines range by retconning rather than introducing the Primaris fluff. What has horrified me is the level of lunacy that this relatively minor change has generated. I suddenly got multiple 'hits' on Youtube for various Youtubers I'd never heard of, all frothing at the mouth about GW has become Disney and how all its customers are leaving. There are also some really dumb conspiracy theories. I normally manage to stay away from the culture wars, so this was an unpleasant reminder of how people with agendas jump on this kind of thing.

 Snord wrote:
It's very reassuring that most of the comments on Dakka about this 'issue' have been pretty sensible. It's fine to question retconning - it is usually rather clumsily handled, and it can be annoying to have supposedly established fluff overturned - but we all know that GW do it as it suits them. Arguably, it would have been better to deal with the whole upsizing of the Marines range by retconning rather than introducing the Primaris fluff. What has horrified me is the level of lunacy that this relatively minor change has generated. I suddenly got multiple 'hits' on Youtube for various Youtubers I'd never heard of, all frothing at the mouth about GW has become Disney and how all its customers are leaving. There are also some really dumb conspiracy theories. I normally manage to stay away from the culture wars, so this was an unpleasant reminder of how people with agendas jump on this kind of thing.

Little late for that, this thread has already been closed twice so mods could remove unsensible material, and a member got a permaban for continued transphobic comments

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
. . .and a member got a permaban for continued transphobic comments

Oh really? That's a shame. Not that what they said was ok (if it's the thing I'm thinking about), but just that I'm not a fan of permabans.

But it's not my site, and it's possible it was something that I missed.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Little late for that, this thread has already been closed twice so mods could remove unsensible material, and a member got a permaban for continued transphobic comments

Okay, well perhaps I was fortunate to have seen the 'cleaned up' version of this thread. But there are a couple of others with a similar topic, and they don't seem to have gone off the rails.

 Insectum7 wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
. . .and a member got a permaban for continued transphobic comments

Oh really? That's a shame. Not that what they said was ok (if it's the thing I'm thinking about), but just that I'm not a fan of permabans.

But it's not my site, and it's possible it was something that I missed.

what they were saying was violently transphobic. if those comments had been allowed to stay, it would have made it clear to any trans people on the that this isn't the place for them (so, thanks to the mods for dealing with that!)

So, Sgt_Smudge asked way earlier in the thread, how long should have "justified" the retcon of existing woman custodes. So here's my take on how I would have introduced this:

Since the events of the lions gate and the return of the primarch, the custodes have become more actively involved in imperial affairs and dispatched on several missions during the indomitus crusade as well as torch bearing missions. This increase in visibility has lead to a host of current accounts of interactions between the Adeptus Custodes and other bodies of imperial government. This has revealed that previous depictions of the Emperor's chosen warriors have been found lacking and incomplete. Myth and legend have left out important warriors and warped imperial memories of them, if they were not forgotten. It has been revealed that the Adeptus Custodes is not only made up of humanities best men, but women as well.
Take heart, soldiers of the Astra Militarum, as for what matters to Him is only what you can give, not how you were born.


I'm not the best writer, but you get the idea. I'm quite happy about woman custodes, it makes them different from Marines. Hopefully it's not an empty gesture but is followed up by some nice models

that's a pretty simple justification! makes "they were always here" an in-universe revelation as well

 Snord wrote:
What has horrified me is the level of lunacy that this relatively minor change has generated. I suddenly got multiple 'hits' on Youtube for various Youtubers I'd never heard of, all frothing at the mouth about GW has become Disney and how all its customers are leaving. There are also some really dumb conspiracy theories. I normally manage to stay away from the culture wars, so this was an unpleasant reminder of how people with agendas jump on this kind of thing.

Social media has unfortunately become monetized controversy. It directly financially incentivizes getting people angry and "engaged" and a lot of creators jump a the opportunity for an easy payday. Honestly, its a good reminder to be weary of all the relatively minor bouts of online angst. I was wildly disappointed today to see Auspex selling a "was power creep better?" as a lesson that no matter what gets fixed, people will find a way to make it a problem. The internet is just no longer a place to go enjoy things.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Snord wrote:
What has horrified me is the level of lunacy that this relatively minor change has generated. I suddenly got multiple 'hits' on Youtube for various Youtubers I'd never heard of, all frothing at the mouth about GW has become Disney and how all its customers are leaving. There are also some really dumb conspiracy theories. I normally manage to stay away from the culture wars, so this was an unpleasant reminder of how people with agendas jump on this kind of thing.

Social media has unfortunately become monetized controversy. It directly financially incentivizes getting people angry and "engaged" and a lot of creators jump a the opportunity for an easy payday. Honestly, its a good reminder to be weary of all the relatively minor bouts of online angst. I was wildly disappointed today to see Auspex selling a "was power creep better?" as a lesson that no matter what gets fixed, people will find a way to make it a problem. The internet is just no longer a place to go enjoy things.

I have seen this as well, I blocked at least 20 channels on YouTube. The regular content creators I watched have a more laid back video on the topic witch is far more enjoyable for me.

@StudentOfEterium
I was going for a justification that would achieve exactly that. Imperial records where wrong, therefore any prior information we (the outsiders watching basically) could get. This faulty record has been corrected.

I believe GWs reply on X could have been better/different but maybe they really wanted to stir up the pot?

 LunarSol wrote:

 Snord wrote:
What has horrified me is the level of lunacy that this relatively minor change has generated. I suddenly got multiple 'hits' on Youtube for various Youtubers I'd never heard of, all frothing at the mouth about GW has become Disney and how all its customers are leaving. There are also some really dumb conspiracy theories. I normally manage to stay away from the culture wars, so this was an unpleasant reminder of how people with agendas jump on this kind of thing.

Social media has unfortunately become monetized controversy. It directly financially incentivizes getting people angry and "engaged" and a lot of creators jump a the opportunity for an easy payday. Honestly, its a good reminder to be weary of all the relatively minor bouts of online angst. I was wildly disappointed today to see Auspex selling a "was power creep better?" as a lesson that no matter what gets fixed, people will find a way to make it a problem. The internet is just no longer a place to go enjoy things.

It’s also how “culture wars” are invented and fuelled.

You or your algorithm go looking for the most hatstand, pants on head, yip yip bibble, shnorf lunacy you can find, from someone on the other side of the political spectrum. You then present that as a majority view of that side of the political spectrum.

Erase the grey. Remove the many, many layers. Go straight to the bottom of the iceberg, and claim “and that’s just the beginning of their demands!!!!”. Profit.

And yes. All sides are at it. All of them. Despite that most folk won’t necessarily agree on everything, but will happily let each other be about their day.