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Hello.

Myself and my friends are basically completely new to this game, and we're making sure we have the rules down so we can play better. That said, I have a few simple rules questions, which hopefully you will answer, and I will appreciate. I will probably have about 1,000 questions, so please bare with me.

My first series of questions revolve around army construction. I should mention that I am an Ork player, so all of these questions will use Ork units, figures, etc. for the examples.

1. The "Force Organization Chart" has me a little befuddled. Is this list simply a guideline (your army should probably have an HQ unit, between 2-4 troops, etc.) or is this MANDATORY THIS IS HOW IT IS army construction? Can I simply field 9 units of Deffkoptaz, or as per the FOC, am I limited to three units? Also, what if my army is HUGE and requires more units than the FOC allows (what if we're playing a 5,000 point game, for instance)?

2. Dedicated Transports - My trukk says it can be deployed as a Dedicated Transport, which seems to mean that it can be put with a unit of my Boyz or Nobz or anything else it says in the back of the book, and when it does so, it's part of that unit's Force Organization slot. What slot does it use if I choose to deploy it separately? If I choose for it to be Dedicated, do my Boyz get deployed already in the Trukk, or just next to it, so they can Embark during my first turn?

3. Just making sure, when it says like "One Mob per army," the word "Mob" means "Unit," right? Not "Guy." So when it says "One mob per army may be upgraded to 'Ard Boyz," then I could, theoretically, be running around with a unit of 30 'Ard Boyz and a unit of 30 regular Boyz. Or a unit of 30 'Ard Boyz and a unit of 10 regular Boyz?

4. Options - It says here "Character - one Boy may be Upgraded to a Nob" and so on. Does that mean one Boy per mob, or one Boy per army? Does that Nob have the "Independent Character" rule, or is he stuck with the mob?

Frosty Hardtop wrote:
1. The "Force Organization Chart" has me a little befuddled. Is this list simply a guideline (your army should probably have an HQ unit, between 2-4 troops, etc.) or is this MANDATORY THIS IS HOW IT IS army construction? Can I simply field 9 units of Deffkoptaz, or as per the FOC, am I limited to three units? Also, what if my army is HUGE and requires more units than the FOC allows (what if we're playing a 5,000 point game, for instance)?

Welcome! The Force Organization chart is aimed for making games at 1,500 points or so but can scale up and down quite a bit for games of larger or smaller sizes.

However with larger point games the FOC starts to become prohibitive and that's when the rules suggest you agree to play a game with each player using a 2nd force organization chart. The rulebook recommends this for games above 2,500 points. For more detailed information on this subject you should check out the rulebook on pages 86-87.

For REALLY large games or games where you just want to play with whatever you want to, you should pick up the Apocalypse expansion. It gives you rules for playing a much more free-spirited game that allows you to bring any and all models to the table. If you have the hankerin to really play with 9 units of Deff Koptas then you'll be wanting to play Apocalypse games (which they recommend should always be games of 3,000 points or more).

2. Dedicated Transports - My trukk says it can be deployed as a Dedicated Transport, which seems to mean that it can be put with a unit of my Boyz or Nobz or anything else it says in the back of the book, and when it does so, it's part of that unit's Force Organization slot. What slot does it use if I choose to deploy it separately? If I choose for it to be Dedicated, do my Boyz get deployed already in the Trukk, or just next to it, so they can Embark during my first turn?

Dedicated Transports do not take up a separate force organization choice, they are part of the same 'choice' as the unit you purchase them for.

However, once the game begins they are a completely separate unit from the unit you purchased them with. They are deployed at the same time but they can be placed in two entirely separate areas of the table if you want. The one and only restriction about dedicated transports is that only the unit they were purchased with can start the game riding in them. Other units can hop in later in the game (provided the vehicle is empty), but they can't start the game riding in another unit's dedicated transport.

3. Just making sure, when it says like "One Mob per army," the word "Mob" means "Unit," right? Not "Guy." So when it says "One mob per army may be upgraded to 'Ard Boyz," then I could, theoretically, be running around with a unit of 30 'Ard Boyz and a unit of 30 regular Boyz. Or a unit of 30 'Ard Boyz and a unit of 10 regular Boyz?

You got it.

4. Options - It says here "Character - one Boy may be Upgraded to a Nob" and so on. Does that mean one Boy per mob, or one Boy per army? Does that Nob have the "Independent Character" rule, or is he stuck with the mob?

One per mob (unit). So each mob can be led by a Nob. No, Nobs do not have the Independent Character rule in their profiles. Just look for that special rule in the codex to see which models have it (I think its the Warboss, Big Mek and some of the special characters).

Great! Thanks so much for the answers, that helped out a lot.

Here's a new question; Gets Hot! weapons say that they score a wound on a roll of 1. What if a Vehicle rolls a 1 with a Gets Hot! weapon?

Yakface speaks the truth!


Also Welcome to Dakka!

Frosty Hardtop wrote:Great! Thanks so much for the answers, that helped out a lot.

Here's a new question; Gets Hot! weapons say that they score a wound on a roll of 1. What if a Vehicle rolls a 1 with a Gets Hot! weapon?

Vehicle Plasma Weapons with the Gets Hot rule (such as those found on a dreadnought and leman russ for example) never suffer from the gets hot rule, its only infantry models using plasma weapons.

Thought I'd chime in with your no2 from above:

If I choose for it to be Dedicated, do my Boyz get deployed already in the Trukk, or just next to it, so they can Embark during my first turn?

You cannot "choose" for it to be dedicated, you have no option with trukks (and space marines with rhinos, for example) but to buy them as dedicated transports - you do not have an option otherwise.

Note that battlewagons cabn be a dedicated transport for nobs OR bought as heavy support, so in that case you must be clear how you have purchased them. To be honest there really isnt much drawback in dedicated vehicles as compared to 4th ed, so dont agonise too much over what - its just sometimes you need that extra HS slot!

Gets Hot! - if you have the rule on a vehicle then it is not affected - this is in the rulebook under the gets hot! rule, explained as having extra cooling etc. If you have a blast weapon that gets hot you roll a D6 first and, if it rolls a 1, the weapon does not fire. This gets around the whole no-roll-to-hit for blast weapons.

I would suggest walking before running - start with small 500 - 750pt battles (4x4 table) to get used to moving, shotting and assaulting, before trying out bigger games. Therse games by nature are MUCh quicker, which will help as a lot of time will be spent flipping through rule books!

Using cue cards can also be good - there are some good summaries in the book but making your own or key rules (or rules you never remember) can be a big help.

finally - welcome to a hobby that can quite easily take over your life. WAAAAAAAGH!!!!

1. The "Force Organization Chart" has me a little befuddled. Is this list simply a guideline (your army should probably have an HQ unit, between 2-4 troops, etc.) or is this MANDATORY THIS IS HOW IT IS army construction? Can I simply field 9 units of Deffkoptaz, or as per the FOC, am I limited to three units? Also, what if my army is HUGE and requires more units than the FOC allows (what if we're playing a 5,000 point game, for instance)?

The darkened choices are mandatory. In typical games, this will be 1 HQ and 2 Troop choices. After that, however, you can add in whatever you want, up to your maximum (which is represented by the TOTAL # of boxes for each unit type [3 Elite, 3 heavy 3 Fast Attack 2 HQ & 6 troop, typically]).

Eric

nosferatu1001 wrote:Thought I'd chime in with your no2 from above:

If I choose for it to be Dedicated, do my Boyz get deployed already in the Trukk, or just next to it, so they can Embark during my first turn?

You cannot "choose" for it to be dedicated, you have no option with trukks (and space marines with rhinos, for example) but to buy them as dedicated transports - you do not have an option otherwise.

Note that battlewagons cabn be a dedicated transport for nobs OR bought as heavy support, so in that case you must be clear how you have purchased them. To be honest there really isnt much drawback in dedicated vehicles as compared to 4th ed, so dont agonise too much over what - its just sometimes you need that extra HS slot!

Gets Hot! - if you have the rule on a vehicle then it is not affected - this is in the rulebook under the gets hot! rule, explained as having extra cooling etc. If you have a blast weapon that gets hot you roll a D6 first and, if it rolls a 1, the weapon does not fire. This gets around the whole no-roll-to-hit for blast weapons.

I would suggest walking before running - start with small 500 - 750pt battles (4x4 table) to get used to moving, shotting and assaulting, before trying out bigger games. Therse games by nature are MUCh quicker, which will help as a lot of time will be spent flipping through rule books!

Using cue cards can also be good - there are some good summaries in the book but making your own or key rules (or rules you never remember) can be a big help.

finally - welcome to a hobby that can quite easily take over your life. WAAAAAAAGH!!!!

Um, I don't think it matters. The BW counts as a HS slot choice even if it's taken as a dedicated transport. If it didn't it would mean you could have up to atleast 6 BW's. Also SM termies can take a LR as a dedicated transport so can I take 6 of those also?





-Orkishly

orkishlyorkish wrote:Um, I don't think it matters. The BW counts as a HS slot choice even if it's taken as a dedicated transport. If it didn't it would mean you could have up to atleast 6 BW's. Also SM termies can take a LR as a dedicated transport so can I take 6 of those also?

Oh god... If you are going be so incompetent please do not answer. No, dedicated transport Battlewagons and Land Raiders do NOT take up any Slots at all. So yes, an ork army can have 6 Battlewagons, and a Space Marine army can Have 5 Land Raiders (as only one of each Terminator Squad can take a Land Raider).

In short: You don't know the rules.

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:

orkishlyorkish wrote:Um, I don't think it matters. The BW counts as a HS slot choice even if it's taken as a dedicated transport. If it didn't it would mean you could have up to atleast 6 BW's. Also SM termies can take a LR as a dedicated transport so can I take 6 of those also?

Oh god... If you are going be so incompetent please do not answer. No, dedicated transport Battlewagons and Land Raiders do NOT take up any Slots at all. So yes, an ork army can have 6 Battlewagons, and a Space Marine army can Have 5 Land Raiders (as only one of each Terminator Squad can take a Land Raider).

In short: You don't know the rules.

Not true I have read and reread the rules multiple times quite thoroughly. I thought that this was meant for vehicles in the dedicated transport section of the codex. Also where do you get 5 from? 3 as heavy support and 3 for elite choices of termies. Last I checked you can take up to 3 terminators since you get 3 elite choices. Wouldn't 6 Land Raiders be kind of... idk? scary? you could for a whole line of LR's to destroy your opponent.





-Orkishly

orkishlyorkish wrote:Not true I have read and reread the rules multiple times quite thoroughly. I thought that this was meant for vehicles in the dedicated transport section of the codex. Also where do you get 5 from? 3 as heavy support and 3 for elite choices of termies. Last I checked you can take up to 3 terminators since you get 3 elite choices. Wouldn't 6 Land Raiders be kind of... idk? scary? you could for a whole line of LR's to destroy your opponent.

-Orkishly

It says right in the Terminator Squad entry that only one Terminator Squad in your army can take a land raider as a dedicated transport. A Terminator Assault Squad can also take a Land Raider as a dedicated transport. You can then have up to three Land Raiders as heavy support choices.

That's a max of five Land Raiders if you are playing Space Marines with no allies. You can get more in if you use Daemonhunters as allies though if you really want to get silly on Land Raiders and have the points to do it.

orkishlyorkish wrote:

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:

orkishlyorkish wrote:Um, I don't think it matters. The BW counts as a HS slot choice even if it's taken as a dedicated transport. If it didn't it would mean you could have up to atleast 6 BW's. Also SM termies can take a LR as a dedicated transport so can I take 6 of those also?

Oh god... If you are going be so incompetent please do not answer. No, dedicated transport Battlewagons and Land Raiders do NOT take up any Slots at all. So yes, an ork army can have 6 Battlewagons, and a Space Marine army can Have 5 Land Raiders (as only one of each Terminator Squad can take a Land Raider).

In short: You don't know the rules.

Not true I have read and reread the rules multiple times quite thoroughly. I thought that this was meant for vehicles in the dedicated transport section of the codex. Also where do you get 5 from? 3 as heavy support and 3 for elite choices of termies. Last I checked you can take up to 3 terminators since you get 3 elite choices. Wouldn't 6 Land Raiders be kind of... idk? scary? you could for a whole line of LR's to destroy your opponent.

-Orkishly

-Giggles- Please stop, you're gonna make me laugh to death.

Kaaihn wrote:It says right in the Terminator Squad entry that only one Terminator Squad in your army can take a land raider as a dedicated transport. A Terminator Assault Squad can also take a Land Raider as a dedicated transport. You can then have up to three Land Raiders as heavy support choices.

That's a max of five Land Raiders if you are playing Space Marines with no allies. You can get more in if you use Daemonhunters as allies though if you really want to get silly on Land Raiders and have the points to do it.

Yes, just like the rules say

Kaaihn wrote:

orkishlyorkish wrote:Not true I have read and reread the rules multiple times quite thoroughly. I thought that this was meant for vehicles in the dedicated transport section of the codex. Also where do you get 5 from? 3 as heavy support and 3 for elite choices of termies. Last I checked you can take up to 3 terminators since you get 3 elite choices. Wouldn't 6 Land Raiders be kind of... idk? scary? you could for a whole line of LR's to destroy your opponent.

-Orkishly

It says right in the Terminator Squad entry that only one Terminator Squad in your army can take a land raider as a dedicated transport. A Terminator Assault Squad can also take a Land Raider as a dedicated transport. You can then have up to three Land Raiders as heavy support choices.

That's a max of five Land Raiders if you are playing Space Marines with no allies. You can get more in if you use Daemonhunters as allies though if you really want to get silly on Land Raiders and have the points to do it.

Oh, sorry that's where I got confused. Didn't see that only one termy squad can take a LR as a dedicated transport. Thanks for clarifying as it seems waaaagh only wants to make me look as stupid as possible and doesn't explain himself.





-Orkishly

orkishlyorkish wrote:

Kaaihn wrote:

orkishlyorkish wrote:Not true I have read and reread the rules multiple times quite thoroughly. I thought that this was meant for vehicles in the dedicated transport section of the codex. Also where do you get 5 from? 3 as heavy support and 3 for elite choices of termies. Last I checked you can take up to 3 terminators since you get 3 elite choices. Wouldn't 6 Land Raiders be kind of... idk? scary? you could for a whole line of LR's to destroy your opponent.

-Orkishly

It says right in the Terminator Squad entry that only one Terminator Squad in your army can take a land raider as a dedicated transport. A Terminator Assault Squad can also take a Land Raider as a dedicated transport. You can then have up to three Land Raiders as heavy support choices.

That's a max of five Land Raiders if you are playing Space Marines with no allies. You can get more in if you use Daemonhunters as allies though if you really want to get silly on Land Raiders and have the points to do it.

Oh, sorry that's where I got confused. Didn't see that only one termy squad can take a LR as a dedicated transport. Thanks for clarifying as it seems waaaagh only wants to make me look as stupid as possible and doesn't explain himself.

-Orkishly

I explain myself just fine, try reading my posts (since you don't read the codex's it seems). I clearly explained that Dedicated transports dont take up a slot and that "only one of each Terminator Squad can take a Land Raider".

Is Waaagh! the new Gwar!?

In order to help - if you are told you can take something as a Dedicated Transport it does not take up any selection - this is in the main rule book for dedicated transports.

It does not matter if the vehicle would normally take up a slot, this is overridden by the dedicated transport rule.

Next time I'd suggest a quick squint at the rulebook before making statements ilke that, can make you look silly And also - while you could have 5 LR, goog luck findng points: 1100 for the LR plus 2 min squads of termis (assuming 30 points each??) is already getting towards 1500 points, without an HQ OR any troops choices.

BT can have more than any other army as well, as their HQ and troops can take them - seem to remember that 14 is possible??

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:

orkishlyorkish wrote:Um, I don't think it matters. The BW counts as a HS slot choice even if it's taken as a dedicated transport. If it didn't it would mean you could have up to atleast 6 BW's. Also SM termies can take a LR as a dedicated transport so can I take 6 of those also?

Oh god... If you are going be so incompetent please do not answer. No, dedicated transport Battlewagons and Land Raiders do NOT take up any Slots at all. So yes, an ork army can have 6 Battlewagons, and a Space Marine army can Have 5 Land Raiders (as only one of each Terminator Squad can take a Land Raider).

In short: You don't know the rules.

Modquisition on:
Gentlemen, lets remember Dakka Rule #1: politeness is required or they let me hit people with my .44 ban magnum.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Is Waaagh! the new Gwar!?

In order to help - if you are told you can take something as a Dedicated Transport it does not take up any selection - this is in the main rule book for dedicated transports.

It does not matter if the vehicle would normally take up a slot, this is overridden by the dedicated transport rule.

Next time I'd suggest a quick squint at the rulebook before making statements ilke that, can make you look silly And also - while you could have 5 LR, goog luck findng points: 1100 for the LR plus 2 min squads of termis (assuming 30 points each??) is already getting towards 1500 points, without an HQ OR any troops choices.

BT can have more than any other army as well, as their HQ and troops can take them - seem to remember that 14 is possible??

Sorry lost my rulebook and space marine codex last night. I did know the rule but didn't know you could take a main transport without any slot being used. I understand now and have found my rulebook.

p.s. I'm scared of frazzled and his magnum





-Orkishly

Sorry about helping derail this new players thread but if you really want to get all silly with land raiders you could play Black Templar where there Troops can take them as dedicated transports, plus 3 from Heavy Support, not sure off the top of my head if there Termmy's can get them too dedicated.... but 9 would, well be a sight if nothing else.

Thanks,
Loredragon2

Loredragon - I'd already mentioned that BT can have an obscene number....

Wow, looks like this thread got a little busy while I was gone. Thanks for the responses.

Now I have a new question. The Ork Codex seems to have one page for looted wagons, which seem to be transport vehicles with very few gun options and they're all open topped tanks or something like that. What if I wanted to loot a skimmer? What if I wanted to loot something specific, like, say, a Hammerhead? Are there rules for that, or can I loot it, but it will have the stats listed in the codex?

You can loot anything , but you'll still have to use the stats in the codex. So the size have to some what fit accordingly.

Just to let everyone in on something that might blow your mind.
Orks can legally take 8 battlewagons in a normal force organization chart.
2 Warbosses (to make 2 nobs squads troop choices)
3 Elite Nob squads with 3 BW's
2 Troop Nob squads with 2 BW's (see warboss)
3 Heavy BW's
Thats 8!

Frosty Hardtop wrote:Wow, looks like this thread got a little busy while I was gone. Thanks for the responses.

Now I have a new question. The Ork Codex seems to have one page for looted wagons, which seem to be transport vehicles with very few gun options and they're all open topped tanks or something like that. What if I wanted to loot a skimmer? What if I wanted to loot something specific, like, say, a Hammerhead? Are there rules for that, or can I loot it, but it will have the stats listed in the codex?

You can loot any vehicle you want. For WYSIWYG purposes, you SHOULD put wheels or tracks on them, though, because Orks don't use grav technology. If you wanted to keep it MODELED as a skimmer, though, but use the regular "looted wagon" rules, most players wouldn't mind, because it's a cool idea> You just have to remember that it follows the rules for a LOOTED WAGON, though, and not a skimmer.

jayjester wrote:Just to let everyone in on something that might blow your mind.
Orks can legally take 8 battlewagons in a normal force organization chart.
2 Warbosses (to make 2 nobs squads troop choices)
3 Elite Nob squads with 3 BW's
2 Troop Nob squads with 2 BW's (see warboss)
3 Heavy BW's
Thats 8!

The only problem is that, THOUGH I LOVE THEM, they're not awesome enough to have 8 (IMO). Plus... if you kit the units out to make them a somewhat viable army, it'll be quite expensive.

Eric

Frosty Hardtop wrote:Wow, looks like this thread got a little busy while I was gone. Thanks for the responses.

Now I have a new question. The Ork Codex seems to have one page for looted wagons, which seem to be transport vehicles with very few gun options and they're all open topped tanks or something like that. What if I wanted to loot a skimmer? What if I wanted to loot something specific, like, say, a Hammerhead? Are there rules for that, or can I loot it, but it will have the stats listed in the codex?

The "looted wagons" entry is to encompass ANY vehicle the Orks have looted, whether it was a skimmer or tracked tank to begin with it ends up having the stats in your codex. Previously Orks could loot other vehicles, however that has gone for thsi codex. It does make it a lot easier to balance orks - for example you want a hammer head as (quite rightly) orks struggle to smash open AV13/14 from range, meaning you have to charge in and batter the tank for a turn before you get to munch on the soft squishy filling. If they could pop open landraiders from a distance TH/SS terminators would die frmo mainly long range dakka, which the orks can put an impressive amount out - and as they only have a 12" threat range "long range" really means "i can keep shooting you from 18" away and move backwards until youre dead or just 1 or 2 left"

So no, while you could do an Ork hammerhead it would still be a looted vehicle - id suggest a boomgun on it, as somehow they managed to mix the subm unition and main projectile shot together to make a nice big sound

Hm. I'll have to start looking into some wagons, then. I'm sort of waiting until I take out a tank in a game against one of my friends, and then I'll loot one of those as sort of a taunt later.

My next series of questions aren't about specific rules, so much as they are about "the rules."

As I understand it, we're moving into 5th Edition. However, many of the Codexes are still printed using the 4th Edition rules, right? The codices that are for sale at my local store, what Edition were they printed for? Will there be all new codices for every faction? How recent is the Ork codex that I have (what seems to be the most recent one)?

We've MOVED into 5th ed already. BRB defines the edition, NOT the codices.

As for codexes: they were all between 3rd ed (DE, Necron, etc) and 5th ed (C:SM, Caemons)

They will ALL eventually be updated for 5th [alessio et al stated they are happy enough with 5th that they will redo every codex for it over time] however beyond space puppies this year the actual release schedule is a little , erm, "secret"

The point is that the codices can still work under 5th, as it is an evolution of 4th (and 3rd) - unlike 2nd to 3rd you dont need whole new rules. While some items no longer work (DE have some, so do Nids) or have any meaning in 5th, you can normally muddle through.

Finally: Codex: Orks was essentially a 5th ed codex, just released slightly before. This is evidenced neatly by Ghazgull: in 4th Slow and Purposeful models did not receive +1 attack for charging, so his rule where he gets +2 did not work. In 5th S&P models CAN receive this bonus, so his rule makes sense now. You also look at "obscured" kustom force field save, where vehicles did not get a cover save previously (used to downgrade pen to glance) and this also covers things.

You can see the publication date, and that it is very recent. Dont expect a new one until after 6th is out, probably.

Hey guys.

We're in the middle of a game, and my roommate is saying he read a rule where tanks firing ordnance weapons only scatter 1d6 if they didn't move. Now we can't find the rule. What's the word?

Tell him to look in his 4th edition rulebook. He'll find it there.
If you are playing 5th edition, Ordnance Blast Scatter 2D6-BS lust like everything else.

Okay, new question. Possessed Chaos Space Marines have wings on the models, but in the codex they don't have the option. So, can they fly? Or can they not fly?

Frosty Hardtop wrote:Okay, new question. Possessed Chaos Space Marines have wings on the models, but in the codex they don't have the option. So, can they fly? Or can they not fly?

If the codex does not say they have the Upgrade, they cannot. It's just for Aesthetic Purposes.