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Just got my ass kicked by scummy space marines, me playing as IG. He started off wanting to "try some ideas out" so had a jam jar to "count as" a drop pod, but what really got me going was he deployed his thunderfire cannon on the top floor of a ruined building. He ignored my protestation that vehicles can't climb ladders, saying it got dropped there by airlift and in the end I gave up and we played on. Later I took a lot of hits from it firing air burst shells that ignored my cover save and it single handedly virtually wiped out my "blobbed up" 30 strong infantry squad hunkered down in the building oposite. What do you think? Fair play? On a similar theme do Dakka players allow walkers to climb up buildings? Also, on the business of "counts as" do you think the jam jar Ok or do you just insist on wysiwig? (this was a "casual" game but I admit to feeling very put out by the end of it).

The Thunderfire Cannon thing was perfectly legal. On walkers, they move like infantry. In a friendly game, I'd let him him use anything about the right size as the drop pod. I would expect him to allow me to see through it like a standard drop pod though.

Some of my friends didnt even do that we just used little pieces of round paper and said this is a drop pod.

There are specific rules regarding moving in and up buildings and ruins. I don't remember the page reference, but check it out for answers to your question on Walkers.

His TFC deployment was perfectly legal as long as he did not try to move it down the building. It would have to stay there, as far as I remember, for the entire game.

As long as the jam jar was about the right size and you were allowed to fire through it (albeit through cover), I don't see a problem. However, it is ultimately your call, as he would have to ask your permission to do so.

Was the thunderfire on top of terrain that infantry couldn't scale? If it was it was effectively on top of impassable terrain.

The TFC was on the 3rd floor of a GW city ruin, it could have been accesed by infantry, and it didn't move.
The "drop pod" was the right size and shape and seeing through it never came up.
Maybe I just got hammered by the dice gods or maybe I need to rethink how to beat TFCs that wipe out all my infantry in one turn of shooting and dreadnoughts poping out of drop pods that shrug off plasma and melta guns like water off a ducks back..

Well, TFCs excel at killing massed light infantry. That + angry dice gods = ouch for IG platoons. A dreadnought shouldn't be shrugging off melta shots unless you roll like I do.

::edit for self-depreciation::

Yeah, melta at short range is NOT a dreadnought's friend.

In all fairness if the dread had hit my chimera with his multimelta I wouldn't have been in much of a position to shoot back, a lot of this game is down to luck, and tonight was not my lucky night. Oh well, always tomorrow, thanks for the help guys.

the thunderfire canon counts as an artillery unit as in a man with a very large gun they move as infantry units and can scale buildings if i remember correctly. that is to counteract how easy it is to take out the gun by providing it with the ability to take cover in a nice firing positon

slop27 wrote:the thunderfire canon counts as an artillery unit as in a man with a very large gun they move as infantry units and can scale buildings if i remember correctly.

The unit types that can move up and down levels in ruins are specifically listed in the Ruins rules section. Artillery is not one of those types.

So the cannon would be unable to move up or down levels in a ruin.


There is nothing stopping it from deployingon an upper level in a ruin using the standard deployment rules, however. It just won't be able to go anywhere once it's there. If a fluff justification is also needed, then explaining it as the cannon having been hauled up there before the battle works just fine for me.

Yeah Chimerae make thunderfire cannons cry - lots of S6 hits are bad news.

edit: I was under the impression that you couldn't deploy something in a place that it couldn't move to, but that may not be supported by RAW.

Somnicide wrote:edit: I was under the impression that you couldn't deploy something in a place that it couldn't move to, but that may not be supported by RAW.

It's not. There are no rules governing what sort of terrain a given unit can be deployed into.

insaniak wrote:

Somnicide wrote:edit: I was under the impression that you couldn't deploy something in a place that it couldn't move to, but that may not be supported by RAW.

It's not. There are no rules governing what sort of terrain a given unit can be deployed into.

In fact, there are almost no rules for deployment whatsoever. Which strikes me as being woefully inadequate, considering how crucial deployment is to how the game plays.

You can counts-as anything as long as your opponent allows it. I kid you not I once went to play 40k and forgot my warriors somehow and had 5 in my list so I used 5 terminators from my friend's CSM. Another time I was missing my lictor so I used a warrior instead. The strangest was using a 20oz small drink cup in place of a carnifex since well, I forgot the carnifex on my shelf. I wrote carnifex on the side and top in marker.

Had a friend counts as juice glasses for drop pods once. So yeah, you can counts as anything if your opponent lets you or likewise you let them.



Note to self: after you prime models remember to not use them in lists till they're done drying.

I used a pair of Nid MCs as Daemon Princes because my opponent allowed me to after I explained that my bit orders hadn't arrived yet.

I don't think there is any reason not to be allowed to deploy artillery in places it cannot otherwise reach. In real war, large guns like that are frequently disassembled between engagements, then reassembled in the desired position before battle begins. In 40k, it's even easier, thanks to grav-chutes, dropships, drop pods, and the like.

Take out the thunderfire with anti-tank weapons, you'll kill the cannon easier than the techmarine.

As for the drop pod, you can make a paper drop pod in about 15 minutes, and it'll look a lot better than a jam jar (although it still won't look as good as an actual drop pod...).

I'd have no problem with a proxy once and a while, but if he just uses the jam jar for every game I would probably tell him to get something that looks a little better.

At least get some plasticard and build one its not that difficult to make the general shape of one out of plasticard then cut the outline so it can be seen through.


I know several people who did this when it came out in order to test them out and see how they liked them.

Same as everything else if he wants to let him use whatever; my friend uses Warmachine Russian things I think I dunno some sort of steampunkish giant thing for his ork dreadnoughts.

1: i would start to focus some fire on TFC's, maybe the odd pie plate if you really need it gone.

2: as for jar pods, i dont usually have a problem with it, however, there is limits.
a kid at the local store uses 6 small pieces of plastic to represent them, now, i wouldnt usually have a problem about it, but he is allways saying how much money he has, he is just too lazy to buy and paint the pods.

If he does it again next game I will be concentrating a lot of my initial shooting on the TFC, also a good idea to hit it rather than the Techmarine. He reverts to IC but gets to waste 3 turns doing difficult terrain moves as he climbs back down, lol.
As for the drop pod, he plays on my table and all my stuff is wysiwig, painted and based so I am going to introduce a house rule that specifies all models must be the right size and shape (for LOS) and painted and based (for general fluffiness) then he will have to at least try to model and paint it. (Might even prompt him to go get one, it's not like he doesn't know what they do!)

General Mayhem wrote:If he does it again next game I will be concentrating a lot of my initial shooting on the TFC, also a good idea to hit it rather than the Techmarine. He reverts to IC but gets to waste 3 turns doing difficult terrain moves as he climbs back down, lol.
As for the drop pod, as for the drop pod as he plays on my table and all my stuff is wysiwig, painted and based I am going to introduce a house rule that specifies all models must be the right size and shape (for LOS) then he will have to at least try to model it.

Since the techmarine and the TFC are one artillery unit, you don't get to choose which one you shoot at. When you fire, every hit hits the TFC on a 1-4, and the techmarine on a 5-6.

Also, even though the TFC follows the rules for vehicles for cover (being artillery) if the techmarine has cover, half the unit is in cover, so the TFC gets a cover save as well.

But when I lobbed ordnance at him I had to put the blast marker over a model. I mistakenly chose the marine, it hit, being a griffon it was only S6, AP4, the techmarine made his save and because the centre of the blast marker was not over the gun the hit againt it was half strength, not enough to hurt it. In retrospect I think I should have targetted the gun,

actually, because it is a unit, even if you had targeted the gun, you still would have rolled the 1-4 5-6 deal

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:actually, because it is a unit, even if you had targeted the gun, you still would have rolled the 1-4 5-6 deal

Waaaaaaagh! is right.

My mistake then, as I would have preferred to hit the gun, only a 4+ cover save rather than a 2+ armour save.

I love the TFC. Versus Orcs, IG, Tau = not too happy troops.

The other solution is to get into HTH w/ the TFC using your own drop troops, infiltrators etc.

It has become a common cat an mouse game at the LGS. Since I usually field a TFC in about 50% of my games it forces the opposition to think about taking something to counter it.

If they were easier to put together I'd buy a second one.

You could also just put your troops in vehicles, then ta-da, they aren't worried about the TFC anymore :-P

I only have 2 chimeras at the moment, but I can see the point in getting (a lot) more. Meanwhile, as he is at the top of a tall building deep striking next to him is out of the question. Just played another game with him doing the same thing, he got in one turn of shooting against my very spread out guard, then on my first turn I killed the Techmarine with my auto cannon. My plan was to just keep shooting him till he died and luckily (for me) it was quite quick. Just so we all know what this thread is about here are some pics I took at tonights game:
1) Techmarine and TFC on top floor of building

2) Jar of cat litter gives birth to Dreadnought (miracle!).




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the dreadnought died to a hail of heavy bolter fire in he back next turn too, yay, the dice gods love me again..

Jar cat litter FTW.

wow..good looking table and armies. Id give the pass on the jar just for that.

jgemrich wrote:Jar cat litter FTW.

wow..good looking table and armies. Id give the pass on the jar just for that.

its rare to play friendly games in most places with fully painted/assembled/based models, so i would also let it slide.