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A WolfGuard squad can take 3 heavy weapons. Would you equip them with assault cannons or cyclones?

I prefer the Assault Cannon. For the looks of it, mostly , but I do believe it's a potent weapon.

The cyclone can help you shoot tanks open before you assault (assuming termis here) and is more reliable in that respect than an assault cannon is.

Do the Wolfguard get to use the new Cyclone rules from the Space Marine codex?

3 Models equipped with Cyclones equalling 6 Crack (or Frag) Missiles seems pretty useful.

Yeah, if it was old cyclones id say Assault cannons, but with the new heavy 2... its just so good...

The Cyclone is a little better at busting strength 11 vehicles, but the assault cannon is better against strength 13 and 14 vehicles. They are statistically identical for destroying strength 10 and 12...

Cyclone is better against MEQ infantry and Ass-Cannon is better vs. GEQ infantry. Ass-Cannon is better against Terminators due to rending. Cyclone is better against multiple wound T4 models like biker bobs

I would take the asscannon if you are worried about termis in a landraider, monoliths, or GEQ.

I would take the Cyclone against marines or chaos that aren't running too many landraiders or termies. Cyclone is also great against nob bikers.

Overall, I would say the asscannons are better.

I do believe that the Space Wolves dex uses the new rules (not 100% on this), and if true I would take the Cyclone hands down.

The assault cannon is better against AV14 due to rending. Against everything else, I'd prefer the [new] cyclone.

Taking Assault Cannons based on whether or not they can take on AV14 begs the question - Why are you using assault cannons on AV14? To Pen AV 14 you need to roll 3 (To Hit), 6 (AV), then 5 (rending - +3 AV), and THEN you get to roll on the damage table. Possible, but a LONG shot.

Stick with Melta for the heavy cans is my advice, and take the CML for the combination of utility and range. First turn transport popping is a big deal now. If you're waiting until the enemy is within 24" to try to pop the transport, you're kind of conceding the point anyway.

I prefer the Assault Cannon. but then again, I am an Edlar player at heart, so S6 spam is in my blood

I was gonna say the cyclone launcher for 2 s8 shots but folks make a good point about rending with the AC... plus the AC looks more awesomer.

cyclone (the new one)

I use a ass cannon because it is funny to abreviate that.

Alerian wrote:I prefer the Assault Cannon. but then again, I am an Edlar player at heart, so S6 spam is in my blood

I prefer the Cyclone Missile Launcher. but then again, I am an Edlar player at heart, so EML spam is in my blood

Also, I don't know why anyone would say that the assault cannon is better against GEQ, when two str 4 blasts can put some big hurt on a guard squad unless it's very well spaced out.

I like the CML over the AC. Another advantage of the CML is that it frees up one hand so you can also take a storm shield and power fist/chain fist/thunder hammer. The inclusion of the [new] storm shield is a huge benefit. Sure you are paying more points but the squad is much more well rounded. The AC was a no brainer back in fourth edition but now it's not the case anymore.

G

I'm running a Deathwing/Green army, and my three term squads have an AC, CML, and heavy flamer. The flamer goes with my mainly-CC-squad. I am torn between the CML and AC because I just have many uses for each. So I took one of each. I think it depends on how you'll play your wolf guard; go into CC or keep them out and rip people up. I'd go with one AC and two CMLs for all-round.

Keep in mind termies are relentless, so they're mobile heavy weapons platforms.

Rico

someone told me you cant fire the assualt cannon 4 the rest of the game if you roll three 1s when it fires. is that true?
id take assault cannon for horde and cyclone for mech armies

The Angry Commissar wrote:someone told me you cant fire the assualt cannon 4 the rest of the game if you roll three 1s when it fires. is that true?
id take assault cannon for horde and cyclone for mech armies

I think at the beginning of 3rd edition was the last time the assault cannon could "jam."

In 2nd ed, if you rolled 3 jams on the sustained fire dice the assault cannon exploded

wow my beat that kids head in with that terminator...

I personally like assault cannons cause they are miniguns!!!! go go miniguns!!!

dumplingman wrote:I personally like assault cannons cause they are miniguns!!!! go go miniguns!!!

The assault cannon is not a minigun, try and learn what terms mean before you use them.

Just wanted to throw an update....I've been using the assault cannons in my test games and they've done really well for me. Yes, I lose the close combat punch of three WG, but normal attacks are good against Elday, Guard and Orks and Nids, and there's plenty of other juice to use on MEQ etc.

Later in the summer I will probably add the CML.

2-shot cyclones FTW

Assuming you get good rolls, the CML is better than the AC. Two str 8 AP 3 shots, OR two str 6 AP 4 shots with a blast marker. Double the range, so you can stroll around and blow things up from the get-go. I have a heavy flamer on my CC cmd squad. With a str 5 AP 4 template, in charging range it's more useful than an AC. If you're in AC range but not HF range, against shooty armies methinks the Terms will get owned. Terms' weakness is lots of shots, because you'll fail a 2+ eventually. So I prefer to keep my ranged Terms out of range of the hordes of guns usually found at around 24" (CML here) and my CC get too close to have hordes of guns do anything, thanks to CC rules.

Rico.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Canonness Rory wrote:

dumplingman wrote:I personally like assault cannons cause they are miniguns!!!! go go miniguns!!!

The assault cannon is not a minigun, try and learn what terms mean before you use them.

That's a minigun.



That's an assault cannon.

Call me blind and clueless, but I see a striking resemblance between those two guns. You're right, though. The minigun-shaped weapon that acts like a minigun (due to Rending and the fact it has more shots than the average grunt's gun) isn't at ALL like a minigun, because what can be like a minigun 38000 years into the future? Pffft. What crazy talk! Miniguns and their concept are SO obsolete by then!

Rico.

As a SW player, my answer is, it depends.

Is the unit in a drop pod? If it is, then I like Assault Cannons with combi-weapons on the rest of the unit. Drop in close, and let lose with some combi-plasma or even combi-flamers and the assault cannons on a unit.

If the unit is on foot, then the CML is the way to go.

A few points to keep in mind with the SWs:
1. SW can have a heavy weapon and a single one-handed weapon. So, you can't take the CML and two other weapons (twin LCs, Stormshield and power fist, etc.).
2. SW terminators can't deep strike.

I always stick my terminators in a drop-pod and have good results with the assault cannons.

Rico wrote:

Call me blind and clueless, but I see a striking resemblance between those two guns. You're right, though. The minigun-shaped weapon that acts like a minigun (due to Rending and the fact it has more shots than the average grunt's gun) isn't at ALL like a minigun, because what can be like a minigun 38000 years into the future? Pffft. What crazy talk! Miniguns and their concept are SO obsolete by then!

Rico.

They are similar looking, yes, but the minigun is a certain type of gatling-style rotating barrel machine gun, the assault cannon is also.
To say they are the same thing because they look similar is idiocy.
"I like lasguns because they are ak-47s! Ak-47s for the win!"
"But lasguns AREN'T ak-47s"
"LOL BUT THEY LOOK SIMILAR SO THERE THE SAME THING!"

Ima repeat myself here:
try and learn what terms mean before you use them.
A minigun is a type of Gatling gun.
An assault cannon, is also, a type of gatling gun.
They are not the same thing.
They are similar.

It bears repeating.
They are not the same thing.
They are similar.

Say it with me now.
They are not the same thing.
They are similar.

"The Minigun is a 7.62 mm, multi-barrel machine gun with a high rate of fire (over 3,000 rounds per minute), employing Gatling-style rotating barrels with an external power source. In popular culture, the term "minigun" has come to refer to any externally-powered Gatling gun of rifle caliber, though the term is sometimes used to refer to guns of similar rates of fire and configuration, regardless of power source and caliber. Specifically, minigun refers to a single weapon, originally produced by General Electric."

Specificly, Cannoness is right, As a pop-culture term, Rico is correct.

In any event - The Assault Cannon really comes in to it's own when taking on 4+ armored infantry, such as Firewarriors, Aspect Warriors, Tyranid Warriors, etc. Anything heavyer your better of taking out with a krak missile, anything lighter is better taken out with a frag missile.

At one point, there was a .50-cal minigun. I don't know if it's still in service or not. iirc, it was the Gecal-50.

dietrich wrote:At one point, there was a .50-cal minigun. I don't know if it's still in service or not. iirc, it was the Gecal-50.

The A-10 utilizes a 20mm Gatling gun as part of its main armament... kinda puts the .50 in it's place, don'cha think?

However, this wasn't the main point I wanted to get at here...



"Minigun" does, brand-wise, refer to an electrically powered, Gatling style, rifle caliber weapon produced by GE back in the 1960s, but people do tend to use the term "Vaseline" as a universal synonym for petroleum jelly, so I'd have to call it as I see it. The Assault cannon is a minigun, but not a "Minigun".

I thought the GAU-8/A Avenger Gatling gun used 30mm rounds.

Also, remember that a Terminator using a Cyclone can also fire his Stormbolter.

Nurglitch wrote:I thought the GAU-8/A Avenger Gatling gun used 30mm rounds.

Is the GAU a 30mm?

lemmie check...

My bad, it is.... but my point is still made.