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I was looking on games workshop site and saw a model for Cypher - The fallen Angel, looked pretty sweet and Ive heard they had rules for him back in the day. So here I go....


1. Does anyone know were I could find these rules online?
2. Would they be fair in present edition rules?
3. Should we all just come up together with some new rules for him(I would start but I really dont have much fluff on the guy besides what ive found on Lexicanum).
4. Could he be used as a Space Marine Legion of The Damned Special Character?

1.) Probably in an old DA or CSM codex
2.) No, probably not. They would probably be playable though
3.) YES!
4.) NO!

My suggestion:
Cyper the Fallen Angel
WS4 BS6 S4 T4 W3 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv 2+

Wargear:
Artificer Armor.
Master Crafted Bolt Pistol
Master Crafted Plasma Pistol
Relic Blade
Frag and Krak Grenades

Online, if you type in "Cypher Fallen Angel Rules", you find some relatively accurate representations. unfortunately, I haven't been able to find his real rules online. I can tell you he was in the 3e Chaos Codex, in the Heroes and Villains write-up, and in White dwarf 182 or some such.

I can't, in good conscience/legal freedom, tell you his old rules (of the 3 listed sources, I own 2) in public. If you wanted a PM or something, I could do that, I think. (It would be sharing information with a friend, no more illegal than if my roommate old me what Ghazghull Thrakka did.

He should not in any way be affiliated with the Legion of the Damned. Here's what I can suggest he should be, given what I know.

(Note:His rules here are similar to what he's been, but not identical.)

WS:5 BS:6 S:4 T:4 W:3 I:5 A:3(4) Ld:10 Sv:3+

Wargear: Power Armor, Dextra and Sinistra.

Special rules: Fallen Angel, Driven, The Unholy Host, Watched Over, Gunslinger

Dextra and Sinistra: This pair of master crafted pistols have always been Cypher's favored weapons, and he always keeps them at his side. Dextra is a plasma pistol, and Sinistra is a Bolt pistol.

Fallen Angel: A member of the loathed Fallen, any Dark Angel Forces must charge Cypher if able.

Driven: Cypher retains the "And They Shall Know No Fear" rule of Space Marines, despite being a Chaos Space Marine.

The Unholy Host: Cypher may be joined by a retinue of other Fallen Angels. Treat them as Chaos Space Marines, except with the Fallen Angel and Driven special rules.

Watched Over: Cypher has the uncanny ability to evade defeat or capture, despite the number of forces which seek his death/imprisonment. If Cypher is reduced to his last wound, roll a d6. On a 5, remove him from the board. He confers no assault resolution or kill points to the enemy, he has simply vanished.

Gunslinger: Cypher bears a sword at his side, but he has never been seen to draw it, in any battle. Instead, he fights with Dextra and Sinistra. 10,000 years of practice have made him devastating with these two pistols. He may fire each pistol the standard number of times in a shooting phase (meaning once, or twice if he did not move, for a total of 4 shots if he has not!) He also uses the pistols in close combat, where he is treated as wielding a power weapon and an additional ccw(factored into his profile.)

Hmm.... not bad. I'd be sure to make a note that The Unholy Host should be selected as a normal squad of CSM. This allows them to choose a rhino as a transport.

Unholy Host become a scoring unit, or just a retinue?

Also - allow Razorback in CSM list for the retinue?

Thats sounds pretty cool, yeah I was just wonderin if he could be fielded perhaps with both armies, cause in fluff I think it says that he is neutral, not with Chaos or The Imperium? If im not mistaken and that he seeks to bring the sword to awaken the Emperor and have him repair it so the Dark Angels will be forgiven or to slay the Emperor and Chaos Triumph or the Final myth is To Kill the Emperor so he can be reborn as the Sensi Emperor.

Yeah, as i recall he's available to CSM and IG

yeah i like the rulez but what about the points for him??

AllWillFall2Me's rules look pretty good to me. Maybe the Fallen Angel rule should only count for Deathwing and Ravenwing units though, given that they are the only ones who actually know about the Fallen. On the other hand i think this did extend to all DA in the original rules so it isn't a major issue. Not convinced about having the pistols counting as a power weapon; I know he sucks in CC otherwise but it does seem a little bit silly. Pity he had to go and stick his C'tan Phase knife into the Deceiver.

Canonness Rory, if you put in a relic blade to represent the Lion Sword then it's a little pointless because the Lion Sword is broken and unusable. As AllWillFall2Me says, he is seen to carry it but never draw it.

He should definitely be availible to IG armies and possibly even non-DA or DA successor marines. No =][= though, they ask too many questions. Also, is it just me or could you see Cypher happily allying himself with Tau...?


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For points, maybe around the 150 mark. That is the equivalent of a Space Marine Chapter Master with a plasma pistol (very similar stat line, same weapons and different but comparably useful/powerful special rules).

thanx a lot dude you saved me alot of time , but would 154-161 points good

http://www.tempusfugitives.co.uk/pdf/40k/Codex%20Lost%20and%20the%20Damned.pdf

Heres a Lost & the damned Codex that has fairly balanced rules (Non-GW affiliated)

The Watcher in the Dark wrote:Also, is it just me or could you see Cypher happily allying himself with Tau...?

No Tau are located on the eastern fringe & by all accounts cypher was last spotted around the eye of terror (Before and during Failbadons 13th black crusade) and his seemingly random appearances show a faint pattern that looks like it's leading to terra.

tl;dr Tau are on the opposite side of the galaxy from where cypher is usually spotted. Not to say he couldn't just that it's highly unlikely.

Good point

eah i like the new rules aswell but then there is missin few rules from the earlier rule inluding watched over but thats not the worst the gunfighter isn't good as gunslinger ...so should i use gunslinger instead


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no offense

Wow the double pistol rules makes him like a cowboy of the 41st century. I can imagine him shooting away enemy's swords in cc

goggari wrote: eah i like the new rules aswell but then there is missin few rules from the earlier rule inluding watched over but thats not the worst the gunfighter isn't good as gunslinger ...so should i use gunslinger instead


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no offense

He doesn't need gunslinger in fact it would be nerfing him. Gunfighter lets him use his pistols as assault 2 & fire both. Also he has the C'tan phase knife (Yes I'm fully aware he may have lost it fighting a C'tan at some point) that ignores all saves (including invuln). That with his pistol gives him +1 attack in CC.

hmm...now come to think of it...it makes sense ...cant wait that figure to come


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thnx


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oh yeah! should i attach a knife to his belt preseting the C'tan phase knife??(and what clour it should be?)

IIRC, weren't Dextra and Sinistra Master-Crafted in the old rules as well?

If so, I would suggest allowing him to re-roll failed to hit rolls when shooting. Yeah that would significantly reduce his chance of missing to like 8-9% or so. But, this guy has been fighting for TEN THOUSAND years, relentlessly hunted by an entire chapter of insanely driven Imperial Space Marines and hasn't been killed or captured yet. It's only a matter of time before something else comes out about this guy.



Anyhow, I would recommend reading Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels for some interesting background info.

Well he very well may be. In Fallen Angels

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Well he very well may be. In Fallen Angels

Spoiler:

The current lord Cypher is noted as wielding a bolt & plasma pistol, also he seems to be the one who advocated Luther learning sorcery.

I await the third novel to shed some light on that aspect.

So...there is novels about cypher What names


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forgot! how about that knife?? should i place it to his belt?
and what colour it should be??

goggari wrote:So...there is novels about cypher What names


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forgot! how about that knife?? should i place it to his belt?
and what colour it should be??

Angels of Darkness are about his travels in 40k. Fallen Angels and I believe Descent of Angels have him in 30k.



Cypher model = win. Hopefully when a new DA codex comes out, they will release rules for him!

so...the novels name is angels of darkness
but still i have my queston about that knife...and no answer

goggari wrote:so...the novels name is angels of darkness
but still i have my queston about that knife...and no answer

Nah. As of 4th edition, he stuck it into one of the C'Tan (Deceiver?). He hasn't even gotten his C'Tan Phase Blade back.

but still if i use the knife WHAT COLOUR And what name are the novels??

The names of the novels have been listed above: Fallen Angels + Descent of Angels + Angels of Darkness. Make the knife whatever colour you want I would suggest some combination of Regal Blue and Space Wolves Grey highlight. Look at Relic Blade/Power Weapon 'eavy Metal classes in White Dwarf

thnx