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Since the new guard is forcing everyone to "Mech" up, and mech endorses meltas, are soul grinders still a decent choice for Demons over Demon Princes? The Grinder with the S8 Blast is pretty awesome, but getting close for CC seems like a recipe for getting melta'd, where at least the demon prince will have to take 4 wounds before he goes down!

Thoughts?

I still think the SG is better than the DP. You have to be smart, deploy to the flank, away from as many melta's as possible, and using decent cover.

If you do that then you are limiting the enemy to only a handfull of weapons which can really damage you, as opposed to a DP where despite greater mobility (with wings) you really are small arms fodder!

Personally, as a SM player, I'd rather face a SG, as I know that I can mulch that with meltas. Aside from that, go for the Daemon Prince cos the model is cooler, and he has some really hench rules!

MC

MC you have 2 multi-meltas. NOT ENOUGH
For me the soul grinder just is more pleasing aestheticly. I mean giant mutated Defilers ftw.
Deamon Princes are more useful in a well made list though so....

IMO the Soulgrinder is still a better option because it can take good shooting attacks (Tongue and Phlem in particular). Tongue is especially nice against mech lists because it lets you reach out with a decent threat radius the turn you land before your opponent has a chance to try and put distance between you and him.

It really depends on personal preference. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

extrenm(54) wrote:It really depends on personal preference. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

see and it's undecided people like you who become furies

Well personally, I prefer Daemon Princes. BEcause even though they can be hurt by small arms fire, you cannot pop them with a lascannon or melta gun.

I played a game last night, and the I3 and WS3 were a real detriment to the Soul Grinder attacking Dreads.

With meltas, multi-meltas and all sorts of tank busting equipment coming, you will need a DP now. Atleast the DP model is easier to get cover than the SG.

thehod wrote:With meltas, multi-meltas and all sorts of tank busting equipment coming, you will need a DP now. Atleast the DP model is easier to get cover than the SG.

The DP is alot smaller, but he gets awful pricey when you start taking upgrades for him. 170 points for Armor and Wings, and nothing else?

I wouldn't bother with armor against IG. Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt of Change, maybe wings. Keep them as cheap and resilient as possible.

whitedragon wrote:Since the new guard is forcing everyone to "Mech" up, and mech endorses meltas, are soul grinders still a decent choice for Demons over Demon Princes? The Grinder with the S8 Blast is pretty awesome, but getting close for CC seems like a recipe for getting melta'd, where at least the demon prince will have to take 4 wounds before he goes down!

Thoughts?

While I love the DP's for their large amount of customization choices and you can mold them to fit any role lacking in your army, I still prefer SG's. Their Pie Plate or decent anti-vehicle (even on a crappy BS) is good for 185 points (with max upgrades). A lot of people see a soul grinder and focus fire it (and barring a lucky shot) keep fire away from your more squishier units. DPs have that effect too, but costing more points and unless you made a shooty version could possibly be dead the turn it arrives and not even doing any real damage.

Best advice anyone can give you is to try them out and see which works out better for you.

for me, DP's add to the tally, soulgrinders dont.

When I use DP's the average points I spend seems to be around 200 (DP+Wings, Iron Hide, Might, Mark, AN upgrade)

For 40 points less it's an SG with phlegm, which has the added bonus it forces my opponents to spread out. If they know an ap3 pie plate is aimed at them, they won't castle up. That means you can pick them off piece meal and not worry about their whole army hitting you simultaneously.

Yes against Dreads/MC's they suck - so avoid them, you've got fleet remember!

I also find that they intimidate the opposition so much more, and there's nothing funnier than all these S7 and less weapons doing sod all due to daemonic possession, and yes melta will ruin your day, so use cover!

sourclams wrote:I wouldn't bother with armor against IG. Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt of Change, maybe wings. Keep them as cheap and resilient as possible.

Unfortunately, I run khorne most of the time...so no 4+ for me...

I am still a fan of the grinder over the daemon prince. I run two and it's the only shooting in my army. I really need that shooting even if it's only for one turn. The grinders cannot be ignored and it allows the rest of my army move into position for multi charges. Another benefit of the grinder is that they help provide a shield for other units. If they are wrecked then they still continue to serve an important purpose. I have been looking through the batreps and it looks like those playing the new guard like to keep their treads all clustered together.

G

It's all in how you use it. Face first combat favors the winged daemon prince. The grinder can get arround the multimelta problem by using the phlegm template before pushing in if at all.

Ignore everyone else and read this, , Soulgrinders and Daemon princes can be devastating in each of their own ways, the soulgrinders are tanks and have that Str10 ap1 tongue which is handy for popping a tank, the daemon princes however, are giant daemons,, , which means they have wounds and inv saves as other daemons do, i am a chaos player on all realms so i know, i recently played in a tank and mc battle, where i took a nurgle daemonprince with wings, and he survived until the very end after killing 3 leman russ', a tomb spider, helped kill a land raider and 2 predators, the soulgrinders were fire magnets, expect them to get shot up. Imo daemon princes ftw because they can be very cheap and are alot more customizable than SG, but an armor value can never hurt.

-Lord BoJangles

I run two grinders, typically (three at 'Ard Boyz), and I absolutely love 'em. I've considered adding or replacing one with a dp, but that cheap source of battlecannon blast is just too good to pass up. That it's a huge LOOK AT ME model is just gravy.

It's a rare battle when both grinders (and the thirster) survive until the end of the game, but the tradeoff is that I rarely lose more than one squad of lesser daemons... and if I've got 40+ little guys still around by turn five, it's pretty darn hard *not* to have control of the objectives.

This is an excellent question, one of the fundamentals of a Daemon list.

I run 3 grinders, but I've seen 3 princes, and mixes, and all work well.

I just remember that battle report where a Soul Grinder survived for something like three turns of StormTrooper and IG Vets shooting at it with meltaguns.

And then the other soul grinder killed everything. So, SGs seem worth it.

Reaver83 wrote:

extrenm(54) wrote:It really depends on personal preference. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

see and it's undecided people like you who become furies

Best post of the match, congrats you win this thread!

I initially ran grinders, but I've switched over to princes more lately.

As others pointed out, the grinder's I3 really hurts it against other dreads, and it's dreads that cause problems for all daemon troops, and most daemon units in CC (pretty much fiends and MCs are the only things that won't get stuck forever).

Princes can get synergy with Fateweaver, if you're running him, while grinders generally cannot. And they don't just pop. (which is what's happened to my grinders in too many games)

The threat of a S10/AP1 shot or a big template is tempting, but in reality, it seems like you get one or two shots and they're not all that accurate. So, for me, the grinder has fallen out of favour, at least at the moment.

I started out running princes but switched to soul grinders. Armor 13 on a walker is just sick. Power fists and thunderhammers suddenly become a lot less scary since they need a 6 to pen. Str 10 attacks with fleet in cc is pretty scary too. You can sit back and battle cannon the enemy and then use the grinder for a counter assault role for things coming after the plague bearers, like outflankers for example. The other shooting units in the daemon army aren't very good in my opinion. Horrors always under perform for me. The daemon princes are good but they cost too much when using upgrades. They also tend to die to small arms fire due to relatively low toughness whereas a soul grinder can ignore it. Meltaguns haven't been much of a problem since people tend to be trying to keep their distance from the rest of my army. Of course, good luck ever getting a soul grinder a cover save. I have yet to accomplish that.