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I still don´t understand how GW didn´t gave the Corvus Spirit of the Machine. Suposed to be the best of the best and most of the Dakka from his flyer never hits.

Sterling191 wrote:
None of the above. Spend the 200 points elsewhere for far better results.

I can completely understand where you are coming from, but I'm using it as a transport rather than a gunship. And, so far, it's the only Transport I'm aware of that can carry Jump Infantry and Bikers (both of which I will be carrying in the Corvus Blackstar).

Thanks

SG

I would go full guns, with las on hte Corvus. The DW don't have that many high wound anti-tank options, and the Corvus does a nice job of crowd control, mortal wounds, and anti-tank all in one.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I would go full guns, with las on hte Corvus. The DW don't have that many high wound anti-tank options, and the Corvus does a nice job of crowd control, mortal wounds, and anti-tank all in one.

So, are you saying that I should take nothing but lascannons on the Corvus or Lascannons + Hurricane Bolters + an Auspex or Infernum Halo-Launcher?

Thanks

SG

Are Custodes any good as allies for Deathwatch? (im looking at the termis espacially).

 ServiceGames wrote:
I can completely understand where you are coming from, but I'm using it as a transport rather than a gunship. And, so far, it's the only Transport I'm aware of that can carry Jump Infantry and Bikers (both of which I will be carrying in the Corvus Blackstar).

Thanks

SG

You're *FAR* better off using a jump HQ with the Beacon to move a squad around the board than a Corvus. Every gun on the board is gonna be pointed at your 500 point winged ball of sadness.

Sterling191 wrote:
winged ball of sadness.

May I use this quote when referring to my Corvus Blackstar in game?

Thanks

Brandt

Has anyone ever given any thought to double Melta Terminators?
As in, Powerfist/Melta and Combi-melta on a single Termie as part of a Vet unit?

It's expensive sure, but could be fun to drop in near a vehicle, pop some shots and generally be a big threat to distract and draw fire.

You could even use the Beacon on an Advancing Jump Captain to pull the unit forward Turn 1. 12" move + d6" Advance + 6" from Beacon is virtually guaranteed to get range (albeit outside 9")
I was planning on using this tactic for a pair of Frag Cannons anyway, with a Termie in the unit, so having double Melta could really allow them to drop some big targets.
Both the Frag Cannons and Meltas want to get closer than 9" (which is a limitation to the tactic) but with enough StormVets in the unit, a VV to allow them to fallback just in case, the opponent cannot afford to let this unit live past the turn they get dropped at their doorstep.

Thoughts?

-

Hrmm, obviously it’s all about finding that line where it’s as strong as possible and lives to work, but if I’ve got a unit that I already assume the opponent will not let live, Id never add more wargear to it, that’s just throwing away more points when they kill it.

bort wrote:
Hrmm, obviously it’s all about finding that line where it’s as strong as possible and lives to work, but if I’ve got a unit that I already assume the opponent will not let live, Id never add more wargear to it, that’s just throwing away more points when they kill it.

Usually this is good advice and I hold to it.
I was just brainstorming the idea of a vet unit with 2 frag cannon, double melta termie, VV and 3 stormvets being shunted up field with the Beacon.
It might drop or severely cripple a big target, which could be worth it. There would be other threats presented, so the idea is to make a hard choice for my opponent: focus fire on that unit or other units.

Probably not something I'd play in a tournament, but could be quite good in casual games.

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Are Custodes any good as allies for Deathwatch? (im looking at the termis espacially).

I'm currently working on a double DW battalion list with a Supreme Command of Dawneagle Shield Captians.
Aside from my 4 DW HQs, every unit I have is ObSec. The Shield Caps provide some fast melee punch, Melta Missiles and some serious fire-magnet bait. They also all but ensure that my opponent will rarely ever claim Slay the WL.
WatchMaster dies? Spend 1CP to make a Shield Cap the new WL.

Granted, my list is a bit more melee focused, so I'm not really sure how Custodes would do in a more shooting based list

-

With the new FW units especially Custodes have deceptively strong shooting. But even if you go for the more punchy variety, they work excellent as distraction units to draw fire away from your Vets.

How important is a Librarian in a Deathwatch army? Would you take a Librarian over more boots on the ground with guns in their hands?

Thanks

SG

 Galef wrote:
Has anyone ever given any thought to double Melta Terminators?
As in, Powerfist/Melta and Combi-melta on a single Termie as part of a Vet unit?

It's expensive sure, but could be fun to drop in near a vehicle, pop some shots and generally be a big threat to distract and draw fire.

You could even use the Beacon on an Advancing Jump Captain to pull the unit forward Turn 1. 12" move + d6" Advance + 6" from Beacon is virtually guaranteed to get range (albeit outside 9")
I was planning on using this tactic for a pair of Frag Cannons anyway, with a Termie in the unit, so having double Melta could really allow them to drop some big targets.
Both the Frag Cannons and Meltas want to get closer than 9" (which is a limitation to the tactic) but with enough StormVets in the unit, a VV to allow them to fallback just in case, the opponent cannot afford to let this unit live past the turn they get dropped at their doorstep.

Thoughts?

-

How does that even work, I didn't think they could take a combi and a melta/pf? Where is that option...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ServiceGames wrote:
How important is a Librarian in a Deathwatch army? Would you take a Librarian over more boots on the ground with guns in their hands?

Thanks

SG

I used three Primaris Libby's with force staves, JPs, and Plaspistols in my last match, and they did fairly well as flying beatsticks. They would harrass with smite, plas shots, and then charge in an beatstick down anything that warranted attention. Also, Might of Heroes is fun for a round or two. But it cost me points I wish I had elsewhere.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Has anyone ever given any thought to double Melta Terminators?
As in, Powerfist/Melta and Combi-melta on a single Termie as part of a Vet unit?

It's expensive sure, but could be fun to drop in near a vehicle, pop some shots and generally be a big threat to distract and draw fire.

You could even use the Beacon on an Advancing Jump Captain to pull the unit forward Turn 1. 12" move + d6" Advance + 6" from Beacon is virtually guaranteed to get range (albeit outside 9")
I was planning on using this tactic for a pair of Frag Cannons anyway, with a Termie in the unit, so having double Melta could really allow them to drop some big targets.
Both the Frag Cannons and Meltas want to get closer than 9" (which is a limitation to the tactic) but with enough StormVets in the unit, a VV to allow them to fallback just in case, the opponent cannot afford to let this unit live past the turn they get dropped at their doorstep.

Thoughts?

-

How does that even work, I didn't think they could take a combi and a melta/pf? Where is that option...

The Powerfist/Melta is a Terminator Melee option (you swap the default Powerfist for) and the Combi-Melta is, well, as Terminator Combi-weapon (you swap the Stormbolter for)

Expensive, but it could be pretty reliable on a single Termie embedded in a Vet squad

-

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


I used three Primaris Libby's with force staves, JPs, and Plaspistols in my last match, and they did fairly well as flying beatsticks. They would harrass with smite, plas shots, and then charge in an beatstick down anything that warranted attention. Also, Might of Heroes is fun for a round or two. But it cost me points I wish I had elsewhere.

How?! Primaris Librarian has a fixed loadout of P. Sword and Bolt Pistol, and no access to Jump Packs?

Did you have any problems with diminishing returns from the stacking -1 to cast from smite? I would imagine that third casting gets a bit swingy...

 Galef wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Has anyone ever given any thought to double Melta Terminators?
As in, Powerfist/Melta and Combi-melta on a single Termie as part of a Vet unit?

It's expensive sure, but could be fun to drop in near a vehicle, pop some shots and generally be a big threat to distract and draw fire.

You could even use the Beacon on an Advancing Jump Captain to pull the unit forward Turn 1. 12" move + d6" Advance + 6" from Beacon is virtually guaranteed to get range (albeit outside 9")
I was planning on using this tactic for a pair of Frag Cannons anyway, with a Termie in the unit, so having double Melta could really allow them to drop some big targets.
Both the Frag Cannons and Meltas want to get closer than 9" (which is a limitation to the tactic) but with enough StormVets in the unit, a VV to allow them to fallback just in case, the opponent cannot afford to let this unit live past the turn they get dropped at their doorstep.

Thoughts?

-

How does that even work, I didn't think they could take a combi and a melta/pf? Where is that option...

The Powerfist/Melta is a Terminator Melee option (you swap the default Powerfist for) and the Combi-Melta is, well, as Terminator Combi-weapon (you swap the Stormbolter for)

Expensive, but it could be pretty reliable on a single Termie embedded in a Vet squad

-

That's still only two shots. I'd almost rather take that ghastly idea of 5 Vanguard going cowboy with Inferno Pistols than embed that in a Vet squad. A simple power weapon and Storm Bolter is all you need.

Of course I'm guilty of running one with an Assault Cannon in my shotgun squad because I'm a hopeless romantic that hopes for then to be good at some point.

All I am saying is that for an army that has some notorious deficiencies for anti-vehicle, having double Melta Termies is an option that other Marines do not have, so it's a neat trick albeit costly.

Vets dropping in with Combi-Meltas is probably better, sure.

Too bad you cannot swap after swapping (or can you?). You could swap the SB for Cyclone ML/SB, then swap that SB for a Combi-melta and swap your Powerfist for Powerfist/Melta.
That'd be a model I'd like to see on the table. 4 S8 shots, two of them Melta. Gunboat Termie.

-

You'd never use two of those shots while camping with the Cyclone, and if you go to the forefront with the Melta + Cyclone it's a LOT of points to give up. Even if you can do it, it is a bad idea.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You'd never use two of those shots while camping with the Cyclone, and if you go to the forefront with the Melta + Cyclone it's a LOT of points to give up. Even if you can do it, it is a bad idea.

Didn't say it was a good idea, but it is a FUN idea. Double Melta terminators are just enough of both to maybe be worth it in casual games.
If they want to kill the Double Melta Termie, they're gonna have to get though the entire unit. Which you can use to your advantage as a fire magnet away from your other units.
And if that double Melta Termie manages to burn a chunk out of a tank, it is worth its points.

Units/loadouts do not have to be ULTRA SUPER EFFECIENT TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHER CHOICES to be "good/fun" choices worth taking.

Meltas are overly underestimated, maybe rightly so, but when they do what they are supposed to do, they can win games. DW Termies have several ways to deliver that payload (true Termie units dropping in, Vet units dropping in via Teleportorium, the Beacon, etc). And even with only 2 shots, DW get rerolls out the wazoo, so that's much less of an issue for them than other armies.
Still probably best to keep the Termie cheap, but the option is there and by the Emperor, I'm gonna magnetize it on at least 1 model

-

This is the Tactics section. We can talk about "fun" all you want but that's not exactly the point of the subforum.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
This is the Tactics section. We can talk about "fun" all you want but that's not exactly the point of the subforum.

*sigh* I really wanted to just let this go, but I really don't think it's fair.
"Good" is a subjective term. Yes, we typically want to talk about tactics for things that are "tourney good" in this section, but that should NOT invalidate discussing tactics for using loadouts/combos that are only "casual good/fun". If you can use it and build tactics around it, it is valid to discuss here. PERIOD.

I brought up a loadout because I thought it could be good if used correctly, and wanted to discuss how to do such.
That idea was quickly shot down for "competitive" play. That's fair enough.
But then I tried to discuss how to STILL use the loadout in casual games, because it's a "good enough" loadout that's "cool-factor" outweighs it's deficiencies.

It is not fair to just shut out the idea because it's already been determined to not be "tournament worthy".
The idea is still valid because not everyone plays super-competitive tourney lists. And I say this as a multiple-tourney winner who enjoys non-competitive casual games

-

 Galef wrote:
Has anyone ever given any thought to double Melta Terminators?
As in, Powerfist/Melta and Combi-melta on a single Termie as part of a Vet unit?

It's expensive sure, but could be fun to drop in near a vehicle, pop some shots and generally be a big threat to distract and draw fire.

The primary drawback is that suddenly your "cheap" source of soaking small arms fire is now more than twice as costly. If one were to do this, one would want a second termie in the squad to use as the ablative flashlight catcher. Losing a 70+ point model to chaff will sting.

That being said...I can see some synergy with the new Vanguard warlord traits (assuming DW ever gets them, which Im dubious on). Drop in with a Phobos warlord, pop the +1 to hit WLT, then add in the +1 to wound from a Doctrine...can potentially be a mini deathstar. Especially if you're packing some plasma in the squad.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Has anyone ever given any thought to double Melta Terminators?
As in, Powerfist/Melta and Combi-melta on a single Termie as part of a Vet unit?

It's expensive sure, but could be fun to drop in near a vehicle, pop some shots and generally be a big threat to distract and draw fire.

The primary drawback is that suddenly your "cheap" source of soaking small arms fire is now more than twice as costly. If one were to do this, one would want a second termie in the squad to use as the ablative flashlight catcher. Losing a 70+ point model to chaff will sting.

Certainly. And I think that's almost a given that you'd need another Termie, or just don't allocate wounds on the Termie at all. Using the Beacon, or Teleport strat you can probably drop the unit in cover, so even the Storm Vets would have a 2+ armour against AP-0

You'd also have the Capt near if using the Beacon, so you'd get re-roll 1s already, so maybe giving some Combi-plasmas to the Vets would be good too.
What I like about this tactic is that is doesn't require that you wait until Turn 2 to drop them in. Using the Beacon and Advancing with a Jump-Capt, you can deploy the unit out of LoS and shunt them up 6" in front of the Capt. 12+d6" + 6" should get the unit in range of just about any target they want.
Do enough damage with the unit on that turn, and it would really matter if they die to retaliation. If they survive, it's all bonus from their.

-

I run my marines with the DW codex and am trying to think of how I can include the new vanguard units in my list as Astartes allies without losing too much effectiveness.

I run a dw battalion and a vanguard with 3 big Primaris kill teams and a big veteran squad in the battalion with 2 of them being intercessors and plasma the other being intercessors and aggressors. My veterans are a big deepstriking blob of 9 all with sb/ss. In the battalion I also have a libby, watch master and repulsor.

The vanguard is 3 dreads and a jump captain. My list has done well recently and can't see where any of the new units fit in unless I just make a separate patrol for an Astartes detachment but it seems useless.

Might have to just run my marines as marines :(

 Galef wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
This is the Tactics section. We can talk about "fun" all you want but that's not exactly the point of the subforum.

*sigh* I really wanted to just let this go, but I really don't think it's fair.
"Good" is a subjective term. Yes, we typically want to talk about tactics for things that are "tourney good" in this section, but that should NOT invalidate discussing tactics for using loadouts/combos that are only "casual good/fun". If you can use it and build tactics around it, it is valid to discuss here. PERIOD.

I brought up a loadout because I thought it could be good if used correctly, and wanted to discuss how to do such.
That idea was quickly shot down for "competitive" play. That's fair enough.
But then I tried to discuss how to STILL use the loadout in casual games, because it's a "good enough" loadout that's "cool-factor" outweighs it's deficiencies.

It is not fair to just shut out the idea because it's already been determined to not be "tournament worthy".
The idea is still valid because not everyone plays super-competitive tourney lists. And I say this as a multiple-tourney winner who enjoys non-competitive casual games

-

Even for a casual game, Melta Guns shouldn't be recommended. Consider the following:
1. You have to take all Terminators or embed them in the Vet squad
2. For those both doing Deep Strike, you won't get the benefit of the Melta rule
3. To get that benefit, you'd be forced into using the Corvus, already not a fantastic option for delivery or killing

GW had an opportunity to fix the issue, and they instead kept Plasma cheaper still. The only place I would consider using this idea is maybe on a suicide Captain due to the low cost of opportunity and not needing as many resources, as well as not being priced like he's in his own aura. On average two Terminators will land MAYBE one more shot with 4 Melta Guns, but the cost to get what you want is far too high due to the unit constraints I already outlined.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
This is the Tactics section. We can talk about "fun" all you want but that's not exactly the point of the subforum.

Why someone brings a unit is entirely irrelevant for discussing tactics surrounding its use. Your constant need to silence people because a unit isn't tournament worthy in your eyes is starting to grate.

Maybe you don't think it's worth talking about, fine. Then don't. But discussing tactics for all units, tournament worthy or not, is the point of the thread bub.

Lemondish wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
This is the Tactics section. We can talk about "fun" all you want but that's not exactly the point of the subforum.

Why someone brings a unit is entirely irrelevant for discussing tactics surrounding its use. Your constant need to silence people because a unit isn't tournament worthy in your eyes is starting to grate.

Maybe you don't think it's worth talking about, fine. Then don't. But discussing tactics for all units, tournament worthy or not, is the point of the thread bub.

There are genuinely things not worth discussing, and that's the way it is. Sure, someone can post about a Terminator squad using the contents of Space Hulk (one TH/SS, one Chainfist, one pair of LC, one Assault Cannon, and a Power Sword Sergeant) and how to use it in a game, but it's literally a waste of everyone's time.

I have come into both a pile of Deathwatch bits and a pile of bikes... and putting them together seems like an obvious choice.

What's the best way to upgrade them?
What best complements Deathwatch Bike squads?

Jump Captain would be an obvious pick to keep up and give the rerolls. That's important for their offense after all.

You're fine with just Chainswords and the Sergeant will depend on whether you want him to tank with a Storm Shield (I think he can take that) or shoot with a Storm Bolter.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Jump Captain would be an obvious pick to keep up and give the rerolls. That's important for their offense after all.

You're fine with just Chainswords and the Sergeant will depend on whether you want him to tank with a Storm Shield (I think he can take that) or shoot with a Storm Bolter.

I think it would be better Bolt Pistols because of SIA