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I will be getting the Skull Pass box and was thinking of starting a Goblin army.

I have heard that they are mainly a "fun" army and can't be really used for serious games. Is that true?

Also, what would be your suggestion for running Goblins?

What are the strong units and what are the "pants" units? Numbers rule for Goblins, that I know.

Night Goblins vs. Goblins? NG have better In., but the Goblins are cheeper.

Is a Lv. 4 Goblin caster worth the points?

Just a couple of questions. Any help would be great. Thx

Night goblins can have fanatics and netters.

Goblin army should have maxed spear chukka.
Skarsnik as commander ,

giant or 2.

I have heard alot about Skarsnik, but what about Grom the Paunch? He looks good, but I've been wrong.

brotherskeeper74 wrote:I have heard alot about Skarsnik, but what about Grom the Paunch? He looks good, but I've been wrong.

Grom is just a basic fat goblin character that can fight.

So can skarsnik , but the main GIANT difference that sets them apart is , this goblin have special rules that benefit the rest of the army:
Sneaky Scheme and Ticksy Traps very important.

Ah. I see.

Okay, how about the Doom Diver. It is a Lobber, but you can (up to D3 inches) give it a little more control.

brotherskeeper74 wrote:Ah. I see.

Okay, how about the Doom Diver. It is a Lobber, but you can (up to D3 inches) give it a little more control.

Its not that they arnt useful , but for an army thats so hard to control , and run away from EVERYTHING ,
most people want abit more reliable muscle , thus they pick giant(s)

but if you want a fluffy all goblin army , doom diver are great and silly .
(squigs are a must! )

I would steer away from common goblin soldiers, they are pretty much pointless until the next book.
Night Goblin blocks are great with nets and a fanatic or two, but they are going to have a tough
time winning the game for you (unless you are playing against someone with lots of heavy armour
but few models)

That said though, Goblin war machines are where it is at. Spear chukkas and Rock lobbas are super
cheap and if you give them a bully, a horde of goblins can panic right through them with no stress.

The doom diver, yeah, the d3 adjustment not as useful as it sounds. Better off with Trolls (if your
general is a black orc) or a Giant.

Magicians depend on how you use them. If you have a small unit you can keep them in, then yeah
the Ld doesn't factor much I don't think. Load em up with Magic Mushrooms and stomp away!

First thing i MUST say is that O&G are pure for fun they cant do jack vs competetive armies like VC, Daemons, HE, DE, Lizards
If you know you can take a kicking but have a good laugh and enjoy the game for what it really is then im sure you'll enjoy O&G cos iv done it for years as i dont care win or lose as long as i hav fun

here the army list iv just posted earlier and iv been having some fun with it, takes some practice and strategy to use tho
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/250287.page
hav a look if you want tho

warning - Shamens tend to blow their heads off more than kill anything but its awesome trying haha

Squigs are a must hav being both awesome and fun
Giants i tend to take in pairs if at all cos having two on a flank can be very scary

goblins get a 4+ armour save in combat with the shield and light armour combo and LD is VERY important in a O&G army
Night Goblins only get 5+ with spears and shield but they get nets which i swear by and Fanatics are a must have because they protect you from things like knights if used correctly just watch out for flying march blockers that release all ur units Fanatics in on turn lol or from armies like VC's that hav cheap units and ressurect them none stop lol

GL battling and Collecting hope we can get another member of the Goblin Horde

Gorrfang Skullmuncha wrote:First thing i MUST say is that O&G are pure for fun they cant do jack vs competetive armies like VC, Daemons, HE, DE, Lizards
If you know you can take a kicking but have a good laugh and enjoy the game for what it really is then im sure you'll enjoy O&G cos iv done it for years as i dont care win or lose as long as i hav fun

here the army list iv just posted earlier and iv been having some fun with it, takes some practice and strategy to use tho
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/250287.page
hav a look if you want tho

warning - Shamens tend to blow their heads off more than kill anything but its awesome trying haha

Squigs are a must hav being both awesome and fun
Giants i tend to take in pairs if at all cos having two on a flank can be very scary

goblins get a 4+ armour save in combat with the shield and light armour combo and LD is VERY important in a O&G army
Night Goblins only get 5+ with spears and shield but they get nets which i swear by and Fanatics are a must have because they protect you from things like knights if used correctly just watch out for flying march blockers that release all ur units Fanatics in on turn lol or from armies like VC's that hav cheap units and ressurect them none stop lol

GL battling and Collecting hope we can get another member of the Goblin Horde

O&G are competitive and to say they are not is wrong.I have great fun bashing VC and deamon arnies with my O&G.The look on my opponents face when they thought I was a walkover is Priceless.I could say alot more about the presumption made,but the only thing I have to say is use tactics and compensate for your armies deficences.

To put it more diplomatically Octavius; "on an even skill level, with even levels of list building, O&G start at a marked disadvantage vs. the armies considered as 'more competitive'."

It's a lie to say they can in no way keep up with the tougher armies, it's just automatically an uphill battle. Don't expect constant victories against tournament-going players playing tournament lists, and you'll likely still have a grand ole time with the army.

Gorrfang Skullmuncha wrote:First thing i MUST say is that O&G are pure for fun they cant do jack vs competetive armies like VC, Daemons, HE, DE, Lizards

I took all NG army to 1 tourney and several practice games (2250 and 2500 points)

3 Lizardmen- 1 win, 1 draw, 1 loss
1 daemons- Draw (would have been strong win if we had realised Skulltaker cannot killing blow a giant)
2 dwarves- 1 massacre win, 1 slight loss.
1 Dark elf (with 40 shades :( ) Strong loss
2 Empire- 2 massacre win
1 WOC- 1 Massacre win
1 VC- Draw

I go in playing to draw, so play alot more conservatively than I normally do and smash my opponents in the middle of the field with cmbo charges from giants and squig hoppers, redirect with snotlings (best unit in the army) and hit their hammer units with fanatics.
Raggedy red banner and ld 8 general are key.

Here is a link to the discussion of my 2250 tourney army which reviews each unit I took.

It is much more exhaustive than what I could write ATM.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/232081.page#650301


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I might do an article on NGs actually, as I play more and more with them... I'm sure Malfred would love that.

...

Gorrfang Skullmuncha wrote:First thing i MUST say is that O&G are pure for fun they cant do jack vs competetive armies like VC, Daemons, HE, DE, Lizards

Actually you said they could not do jack.Do not try to be diplomatic when you are just trying to be rude.I hate it when someone thinks they can do that.And if you have trouble with O&G in tournaments I suggest you pick up and use one of the many cookis cutter armies.(VC,Deamons,DE,Lizards.

ok, ive had my night goblins sitting for forever and just cant get rid of them because i love the models.
help me get an army list together.
what are your opinions on squig herds and squig hoppers?
i think i like the herds and was going to run full units of like 25 of them but the "explode when they flee" thing kind of makes me nervous about them.
squig hoppers seem to random.

and trolls or giants...?

any help with a general would be appreciated. id like to run skarsnik but we usually exclude special characters.

I prefer hoppers over herds in an all gobbo army as they give you a unit that can enter terrain and week out skirmishers/scouts. Also if a unit appears behind you (gorgers, miners, tunnel rats etc) you can still charge it.
Fills a big gap in the O&G list.

In a friendly game vs low number enemy (ogres, mtd chaos, brets) I'd seriously look at taking 2 herds.

One player here in Brisbane has had good fortune with 4!!! units of squig herds. Runs them up, alternating with fanatic bearing NG units, so when the enemy approach, the fanatics kill enemies, then they hit the squigs who take the charge (ITP) and then either hold or blow up, killing more enemies.

thanks waagh...

any thoughts on trolls vs giants?
im thinking giants might have the advantage due to goblin leadership and the trolls stupidity.

I find that for goblins, Night Goblin Shamans and units work best, while Common Goblin characters are used for leadership islands - Night Goblin Shamans are slightly cheaper and have a few more magic item options, and a few points saved here and there can go a long way.

Unit-wise, Night Goblins are cheaper and - vanilla - have more durability. A 3pt common goblin has a 6+ Save. a 3pt night goblin has a 6+ save against shooting and flank combats, but has a 5+ against frontal assaults. However, Common Goblins have greater durability potential at 3 CG's for 4 NG's. This can be negated however if you keep NG's with HW & Shields and add some netters - still frailer against shooting attacks, but now actually more durable in close-combat than standard Goblins.

For Goblin Characters, Great Weapons and the like are what I take if using mundane weaponry and on foot - it just helps having someone who can bother to deal with armor in a unit. For magical, I take either Ulag's Axe (+1S first round & Re-rolling misses always helps) or the Best Basha (so the goblin can usually hit and wound on 3's).

Personally - though I have eight trolls - I never really use them. They're three WS3 attacks each, and thus cannot usually get enough kills to break the static five of most units. Only times they've really made up points is when attacking things such as Skinks that don't / can't flee (3's and 2's = lots of dead skinks) or units WS ≤ 3 T ≤ 3, as then they can reliably get a few hits while rarely taking as many back.

Giants are a better bet, if they lack durability and become fire-magnets. That's where a second one comes in, or using them entirely for drawing enemy fire / making inexperienced players re-align the army to face the Giant. In return for their lack of armor of any sort, they are unlikely to ever break from combat - use it as a 200pt speed bump to tie up an enemy unit.

I haven't tried trolls.

But looking at how I'd integrate them into a goblin list, they would have to be within 12 inches of the general at all times to get a good chance of passing stupidity.

There is already a hell of alot in a goblin army that needs to be within 12 inches of the general.

I've fought against them in tourneys and without flaming (back when regenerate was not given out willy nilly) I really, really struggled to get through a unit of 3 with black knights. If memory serves they broke only when I got a flank charge with skeles (old VC book)

Giants on the other hand are about as reliable a unit as you are going to get in an O&G army. 6 inch mvt, terror causer (so no psych problems), stubborn Ld 10 (so if lose combat and don't fall you are unlikely to run) and tough.
Their only downside is that they will invariably roll the 1 roll you don't want for attacks, leaving you standing around looking a tool. And I struggle vs units of larger targets, usually because my giants seem to like headbutting.
But when they do work they work a treat, 2 weeks ago vs WOC cav army I stuffed a CK standard bearer, CK muso and a Chaos Lord on daemonic steed down the pants of 1 giant in 1 combat phase. We were both in tears laughing.
I find they work best running in a team of 2 down a flank, with 2 units of squighoppers (my last deployments). It is a nigh on unstoppable freight train that immediately makes my opponent change his plans in response. And once I have him reacting to me I've got the game in the bag....

I also find that in Orc and Goblins armies, Da More Da Merrier.

I plan on taking 2 Giants, mainly because, well, you know...

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:But looking at how I'd integrate them into a goblin list, they would have to be within 12 inches of the general at all times to get a good chance of passing stupidity.

You can also - if desperate - stick a character in there with the trolls. While I've never tried it yet, thought of putting a Giant Spider-riding Goblin Big Boss in the unit - doesn't cost much more than a River / Stone troll being added in (actually, for the cost of about two standard trolls you can fit one in with a great weapon). Leaves the unit only Ld7 instead of 8, but that's still within average and can lend to the needed killing power to make trolls effective. Durability is never the concern for them: River Trolls for instance - if fighting a WS≤3 S3 unit - on average take only one wound for every eighteen attacks they face, the same for Stone Trolls. Even bog-standard Trolls take only one wounding hit from twelve of the above type of attacks (or slightly more than the average unit will usually get). But then for attacks back, the trolls have to deal with the fact that they're probably only going to get one wound a model - not enough to beat the static five. When you factor in a WS4 (or 5 w/ the Basha) S4 (5 if you're smart and take some strength-increasing weapon) model that should get 1-2 hits itself and another 1-2 wounds from its mount, getting two-to-four wounds means you might have a shot at breaking, and have a very good chance of holding (especially if within range of a BSB).

There is already a hell of alot in a goblin army that needs to be within 12 inches of the general.

Which is where the terror starts once one unit breaks.

I've fought against them in tourneys and without flaming (back when regenerate was not given out willy nilly) I really, really struggled to get through a unit of 3 with black knights. If memory serves they broke only when I got a flank charge with skeles (old VC book)

Cavalry is one of the spots they do shine, especially if they can take the brunt of a charge (River Trolls work best here). Most Cavalry is going to need either 3's or 4's to wound on the charge (depending on whether they have spears or lances), and either 3's or 4's to hit (4's or 5's if River Troll). The steeds are then usually in the same boat as the WS≤3 S3 infantry. This turns a five-wide front with Command into an average of about one wound - something a unit of trolls can easily manage - when the unit's WS is higher and Strength is 5. Assuming lower WS it turns into something like a seven-to-eight wide unit of cavalry unit, or both strength and weapon skill the steeds become only slightly less effective than the riders. You even get to use your Vomit Attacks afterwards against the Cavalry, which will on average get around two-to-three kills for every three-to-four trolls.

Good anti-cavalry unit, but if your enemy doesn't use Cavalry much (or at all, which is the case at my GW in that there's only one player who uses it and it's one unit of Saurus Cavalry) then you don't get to make much use of this.

Get as many as you list will allow. Also, Giants would be welcome...