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I am going to be building an Ork army and I want it to be highly competitive and win lol. What I ask is for you good people of the DakkaDakka to vote on which of these two lists is better and offer advise on how to make them even better. Also if you voted can you please give a brief reason of why you pick that one so that I have an idea of why that list is "better." Thanks!!!


Nob Bikers - 1500pts

HQ
1. Warboss w/ PK, Warbike, Attack Squig, CB

Troops
1. Nob Bikers x10
all w/ Warbikes, CB
1.PK, KW1*
2.PK, KW2*
3.PK, Waaagh Banner
4.PK
5.Painboy
6.BC, KW1
7.BC, KW2
8.BC
9.KW1
10. n/a
*= this represents a kombiweapon 1 and 2 are just to show that they are different

2. Ork Boyz x30
Nob w/ PK
3. Ork Boyz x30
Nob w/ PK
4. Ork Boyz x22
Nob w/ PK
5. Gretchins x19/x1 Runtherd


Meganobz Deff Rolla Rush - 1500pts

HQ
1. Ghazghkull Thraka
2. Big Mek w/KFF

Troops
1. Meganobz x8
Battlewagon w/ RPJ, AP, DR

2. Ork Boyz x20
Nob w/ PK

3. Ork Boyz x20
Nob w/ PK

4. Ork Boyz x25
Nob w/ PK

Heavy Support
1. Battlewagon w/ RPJ, AP, DR
2. Battlewagon w/ RPJ, AP, DR

Well, I'd like to help you out, but first I sort of need to know what you're try to do. IE, what playstyle are you after?

I play Mechanized Orks, and if I go head to head with you with either of those lists, chances are that I'm going to grind your army into the dirt.

1. People have solved the Nob Biker list. Low AP blast templates kill nob bikers very nicely. Last tournament I was in, my mechanized Orks came up against a Nob biker list. I assaulted his Nob bikers (multi-assault). It cost me two trukks full of boyz and two DeffKoptas to kill his bikes; I lost 300 or so points, and he lost 700 or so points. That's the beauty of a mob of boyz; there's a hidden powerklaw in there and a bunch of six point buffers to make sure that he gets his hits. Honestly, if you want to take bikers, take them in conjunction with a Speedfreak army. Take a small squad (3 or so) that you can throw up against a Hive Tyrant / Carnifex. But having a straight biker list puts all your eggs in one basket.

2. Meganobs. Personally, I don't use them. Lets say that you have a squad of Meganobs (8) and I have a squad of trukkboyz. You've got 8 Nobs with 8 powerklaws, and I've got 11 boyz and one nob with one powerklaw. Lets say that I assault you, which is likely - my assault range is much farther than yours. Statistically, I'll cause 22 hits, 11 wounds, of which you'll fail 2. Meganobs are equipped the same without wound distribution, so you just lost a meganob. Now we're at Initiative 1, and my Nob + all your nobs go simultaneously. I get 4 more attacks, statistically getting 2 hits, causing two Str9 wounds, and two more Meganobs die. I've now killed 120 points worth of Meganobs. In return, you get (7 at this point) Nobs attacking back; 21 attacks, 12 hits and 10 wounds. I lose 10 Boyz (out of 12) and lose by 7, fail leadership and run away. I don't actually know if Meganobs can sweeping advance or not. Lets presume they can and I get wiped out.

You lost: 120 points
I lost: 111 points

If you roll any worse or if I roll any better than statistically normal, you're going to lose by a lot more. That's the beauty of assaulting terminators. If I dump a trukk full of boyz into a terminator squad, all my boyz are going to die, but I'll take 2-4 terminators with me and I'll have won in terms of points spent. And honestly, I take Ghazghkull in every armylist. I can't tell you the number of times that I've broken Ghazghkull off from his nob escorts, declared a Waaugh! and then charged solo into a gaggle of terminators. He gets a 2+ invulnerable save, can't be killed instantly, and has 7 STR10 attacks.

He gets the job done.


I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Tell me what you're trying to do? There's a lot of competitive lists to be build with Orks, but you sort of have to pick a theme and run with it. If you want to build a foot slogging army, that's one thing. If you want a shooty list, that's another. Mechanized list? Speed freak? Assault list? Super-powered unit list? Orks can do anything that any other army can do, and do it better. However, they're NOT well-rounded. You pick one thing and excel at it, and you've kind of mixed and matched different things here.

With the second list I was going for a powerful Mech Ork list. The first is just a standard Nob Biker list isnt it?

There isn't a "standard" Nob biker list, but the most frequent list you'd find has this:

HQ1: Warboss on bike
Troop 1: Nobs on Bikes

HQ2: Warboss on bike
Troop 2: Nobs on Bikes

In 1850, your entire army can be 22 models; 2 warbosses and 20 nob bikers.

Regular nobs in battlewagons are better than meganobz in battlewagons.

Meganobz. Also known as target practice.

So Drummer, tell us what theme you'd like, and we can help you make an army list to suit it.

List #2, but instead of Meganobz just normal Nobz with a Painboy, Ghazzie and the Big Mek.

Turn one remaining 20 Boyz mob into Ard Boyz.

Squad of Grots to hold the back field.

Now you have a hard hitting Assault squad that can soak up wounds, another hard hitting squad that can take hits, a third squad that can back up the other two and a throw away squad that can hold home court objectives. Throw everything at the enemy and let the Grots hold down the Fort.

I think you should go Mega, take out some Boyz and take some shooting. The other thing you could do is take the Mad Doc.

hehe, I run a full Cybork list with the good Dokktor. Its not really competetive (too many weaknesses, too random), but it sure pisses off opponents. I DO win games though.

Seriously don't do that.

Nob Bikes are so last month's Forgeworld.

After messing around with list 2 some, I have decided that I want a Mech Ork Army mainly because I want something a little more fun than just 180 boys rushing the opponent; effective but no fun in my opinion. With that said I also want the list to be good enough to win I mean who doesn't want to win right? So I have made a new list for you good people to help me out with.

HQ
1. Warboss w/ PK, Warbike, Attack Squig, CB
2. Big Mek w/ KFF

Troops
1. Nobz x10
all w/ 'eavy armour, CB
1.PK, BP
2.PK, KW
3.PK, Waaagh Banner
4.BP
5.Painboy
6.BC, KW
7.BC, BP
8.BC
9.KW1
10. n/a
Battlewagon w/ RPJ, AP, DR

I figure that these are a beter choice than Meganobz or Bikers for the fact that they cost less than the bikers but still have the same attacks right? They are still protected with the battlewagon like the MN but I feel that many PK attacks is overkill and this way they will strike with some models before PF/PK ect... but still have 9/12 PK attacks (normal/charge). I hope I am right in thinking this way.


2. Ork Boyz x12
Nob w/ PK, BP
Trukk w/ RPJ, Bording Plank
3.Ork Boyz x12
Nob w/ PK, BP
Trukk w/ RPJ, Bording Plank
4.Ork Boyz x12
Nob w/ PK, BP
Trukk w/ RPJ, Bording Plank
5. Ork Boyz x12
Nob w/ PK, BP
Trukk w/ RPJ, Bording Plank
6. Gretchins x14/x1 Runtherd

The idea of the army is a fast mobile assault army that can take out most competitors. I know it lacks in anti-tank so I'm hoping the Bording Planks and Warboss on Bike will help with that.

The Green Git wrote:List #2, but instead of Meganobz just normal Nobz with a Painboy, Ghazzie and the Big Mek.

Turn one remaining 20 Boyz mob into Ard Boyz.

Squad of Grots to hold the back field.

Now you have a hard hitting Assault squad that can soak up wounds, another hard hitting squad that can take hits, a third squad that can back up the other two and a throw away squad that can hold home court objectives. Throw everything at the enemy and let the Grots hold down the Fort.

I agree in part,drop the Meganobz for basic Nobz + Painboy,Ghazzie and Big Mek with KFF.

Iffy about the 'ard boyz,with cover & KFF basic boyz may work fine for less points.

Definitely Take the Grotz to "hold down the fort".

Okies, you want a fast mobile assaulty list. I can dig it.

1. Drop the gretchin. They don't belong in a fast, mobile list. If you're going to take a foot-slogging list, you can spend 107 points to get 29 gretchin and two runt-herders, then string them across the ENTIRE front of your army, and get 4+ cover saves for your whole army all day long as they run screaming up the field.

2. Personally, I think Ghazghkull Thraka is mandatory in a good Ork list. Before you shrug me off, that 225 points can single-handedly destroy anything in 40k. With Ghazghkull in your army, you have a 27" assault range on turn 2, your entire army is fearless, and Ghazghkull can take on a squad of terminators, a Hive Tyrant, C'Tan, doesn't matter; that 2+ invulnerable save and 7 powerklaw attacks goes far.

I've found a few combinations work well. Presuming you don't have the ability to set up terrain (and put in LOTS AND LOTS OF COVER), you're going to have to take your own.

HQ: Ghazghkull
HQ: Mek with a KFF

Troop 1: 10 Nobs, all equipped differently, with 'Eavy Armor, no Cybork Body. That's 50 wasted points for something you won't get to use much, that statistically will not roll in your favor often. My favorite combination:
1. Painboy
2. Waaugh! Banner
3. Bosspole
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw / Ammo Runt
6. Powerklaw / Kombi-Skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big Choppa / Ammo Runt
9. Big Choppa / Kombi-Skorcha
10. Normal Nob.

Ghazghkull + these 10 nobs belong in a trukk, not the battlewagon.

Troop 2, 3, 4: 12 Boyz in a trukk, red paint, reinforced rams. Boarding Planks are fun; I use them when I have spare points.

Troop #5: 19 'Ard Boyz (In the battlewagon) I like to attach Mad Dok Grotsnik to my 19 'Ard Boyz (+ Nob and PK) which gives me a unit of Ork Boyz with 4+ armor, 4+ feel no pain, permanently fearless, and two powerklaws in there. As long as you don't assault terminators, they eat everything.

Heavy 1: Battlewagon

If I have extra points, I take a couple of killa-kans, or Snikrot + Kommandos (with the mandatory 2 burnas). I'm growing more and more attached to Lootas, but they don't belong in an assaulty list.
----------------------------------------------
Strategy: You cluster the trukks around the battlewagon, which has a Mek with a KFF in it. All your vehicles get 4+ cover saves for being obscured. Turn 1, you roll them all up the table 13". Turn 2, you assault. You've got the ability to tackle pretty much anything. Ghazghkull + nobs can take down big units, marines, you name it. If I run into power-weapon heavy terminators or monstrous creatures that can lay my Nobs low, Ghazghkull detaches when they disembark and he goes to assault them alone while my Nobs tackle an easier target. Ghazghkull won't die. =p

Meanwhile, all my other boyz pour out of their trukks and assault into everything. As I kill stuff, I inevitably lose Orks. Turn 2 always lasts a long time, and you'll kill half the enemy. You may or may not have lost some units, but you'll certainly have depleted units. Assault with multiple units where you can. For objective based games, starting with turn 3, my depleted Ork units jump into my surviving trukks and go grab the objectives.
-----------------------
This army lacks anti-tank. Boarding planks are nice in that you don't have to expose your boyz to get to assault a vehicle, but presuming the vehicle moved, you're still going to need 4s or 6s to hit with that single Nob. The beauty of Ork mobs is this: You can completely surround a vehicle loaded up with troops, and blow it up. Favorite tactic of mine is to surround a rhino full of marines. I usually use either two squads of boyz or my 20 'Ard Boyz to do it. I blow up the rhino, and the marines inside are forced to make an emergency disembark...except that most of them will die because of deployment rules. If you completely surround a rhino and blow it up, the guys getting out aren't allowed to deploy within an inch of an enemy model. Since you have it completely surrounded, that leaves a little 2" by 2" square in the middle of the rhino where they can barely squeeze in 4 guys. The other 6....poof.

I like your list alot! Althou I still find the gretchins useful for sitting on an objective and with all of those trukks and boyz he will forget about them and there you have it one objective captured most of the time. Guess its just my personal prefference I'm also a strong believer in WoN gaunts lol!
And if you could answer one question about the Waaagh of Thraka? The part that say "lasts the remainder of that player turn and all the following player turn." What does that mean the wording of the rule is confusing me a bit or maybe I'm just stupid.

Also is the RPJ, AP, DR a good loadout for the Battlewagon?

The rules for Ghazziez Waaagh "lasting for the remainder of your turn and all of the following players turn" means just that,Ghazziez saving throw is invunerable for the duration of the Waaagh,all non fleeing units of boyz are fearless,all ork infantry count as rolling a 6 for the Waaagh.
Armour plates and Deffrolla are good for Battle wagons,no idea what RPJ is.
Strike that...Red Paint Job ,sure it's an extra inch of movement so why not.

I don't use armor plated on my battlewagons. Getting a 2 to count as a 1 when you're open topped is pretty pointless. I use red paint and a big shoota for sure, and usually end up taking a Deff Rolla. Its a great way to kill a Landraider with those D6 strength 10 hits. You'll need the big shoota just so that you can get rid of something if you suffer a weapon destroyed result so you can avoid being immobilized.

As for the Deff Rolla, people will bitterly argue whether you can Deff Rolla a vehicle or not (and whether you can boarding plank a dreadnought or not) until the end of time. Basically, it comes down to you and your opponent having to D6 for it, or during a tournament, getting the tournament organizer to weigh in on it. Read the rules and read your Codex; I personally think that the rules are pretty explicit in that they allow it.

Otherwise, what happens when you have a Deff Rolla, you smack into a Dreadnought who chooses to death or glory you? o.O

One wonders why they would death or glory a AV 14 tank. Unless its a normal dork with a melta bomb, its mostly way too dangerous.

Don't use armor plates on anything. Negating 1 result on the chart is not worth it.

As for the use of meganobs: use them in squads of 3-5, anything higher is negating the advantage they have over regular nob squads. They are cheaper than regular nobs kitted out. For those who doubt me look at this: 5 meganobs with the normal weaopon cost 200 points. If you want, you can take 2 types of non standard guns so you can do some minor wounds tricks, so you can spread some wounds around. So at most you will spend 220 points on 5. With this you get 5 powerklaws and a 2+ armor save. The cost of 5 nobs with just 3 PK, with painboy eavy armor and cybork bodies is 250. This cost doesn't not include the banner, pole, or 'uge choppas and combi weapons you will probably want. The only thing that mega nobs fear is spammed powerweapons, and powerfists. The only thing normal nobs fear is spammed power weapons, powerfists. A 4+ 2 times vs normal attacks is pretty much the same as 2+ to begin with. The 5+ won't save you often, because when you take it, you probably wont get to use the FNP. The wound tricks you can do with normal nobs make them stick around longer, especially when you take a large unit of them. But they suck up so many points it means that the entire army is going to blast them. A small unit of meganobs is either an effective distraction, or it will crush what it is assaulting. (short of sending it in vs TH/SH guys, no ork unit should be doing that) You will save so many points going with mega nobs you can afford other units that actually do things. Its the MSU approach vs the eggs in one basket death star approach.

As for the use of boyz these days. I really don't like the normal boy anymore. Fearless is a drawback. Even in the combats you come ahead in, you will end up taking fearless saves. A 6+ doesn't get the job done. After 1 assault a unit of 20 boyz isn't going to be combat ready. In fact you will probably won't be fearless after 1 assault, and the counter shooting that happens if you were to run off the enemy. If I were to take boyz they would have to be 130 point throw away truck boy squads.

This list is not a terrible idea, though I'm betting that most the people here will disagree.

1750

HQ: Thraka
Big Mek with KFF, cybork, powerklaw.

Elite: 9 burna boyz

Troops: 5 mega nobs, 2 combi skrocha, 1 combi rokkit, 2 twin linked shootas. battlewagon w/rolla and big shoota
10 truck boyz including nob w/ only PK
10 truck boyz including nob w/ only PK
15 gretchin w/ 1 run herd

fast attack: 20 stormboyz, including nob with PK, bosspole
15 stormboyz, including nob with PK bosspole

heavy support: BW with deff rolla, big shoota.

You put the big meck with the burnas into the HS BW. Trucks stay close enough to KFF to try to survive. Stormboyz also try to get a save, either through use of actual cover, or by having a guy close enough to the Big Mek wagon. Gretchin try to hold an objective and stay alive. The idea is to try and get a 4+ or 5 + save for everything that matters, and assault on turn 2. The entire army other than grots can achieve this goal, but keep in mind the truck boyz squads are suicide ones. The burna boyz squad give you horde and marine killing power, and the Big mek with the KFF and PK gives you nob level hitting power in the unit. The mega nobs hang out with Thraka, and try and open tanks. Combo charge if they can pull it off. They need to stay close the the mek after assaults too, so they don't die to plasm/melta. Be sure to assign instant kill wounds to thraka.

If you go first with this army you will probably crush the enemy. If you go second you will have to work for it, especially if they kill both BW turn 1. Not likely but I've seen tau do it, and guard can do it. Neither one of those is a good match-up, but the speed of this army at least gives you a chance.

To bring it down to 1500, downgrade thraka to a normal mega warboss, get rid of the grots, and take away BP and cybork from the big mek.

Thanks for the input everyone I'm going to toy around with Dashofpeppers list some and post it and see what you all think!