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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Las Vegas

Hey all, I’ve begun to settle on a 2000pt competitive list. I wanted to put it out there and get some opinions. Thanks in advance.

Grimrukk’s Deff’s ‘Ead Horde (Blood Axe Theme) 2000 pts

Grimrukk (Counts as Ghazghkull Thraka)

Nobz (‘Eavy Armor, Cyborks)
1. PK
2. PK, TL Shootas
3. PK, Kombi Option 1
4. PK, Kombi Option 2
5. PK, Waaagh! Banner
6. Painboy w/ Grot Orderly
7. BC
8. BC, Kombi Option 1
9. BC, Kombi Option 2
10. BC, TL Shootas

Battlewagon
1. Deff Rolla
2. Red Paint Job
3. Grot Riggers
4. Kannon plus crew
5. Four Big Shootas
6. ‘Ard Case

25 Ork Boyz
Nob w/ PK

3 Killa Kans
1. Skorcha
2. Big Shoota
3. Rokkit Launcha

24 Ork Boyz
Nob w/ PK

3 Killa Kans
1. Skorcha
2. Big Shoota
3. Rokkit Launcha

20 Ork Boyz (Rear Guard)
Shootas
Nob w/ PK

10 Lootas

10 Lootas

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/06/09 15:23:36


 
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior





The Battlewagon is not the best. Take of the 'Ard Case (it takes away the ability to charge when the nobz get out!) and give it armour plates so that it is always moving. IMO you have too many PK in the nob unit. I always take a few normal ones (armed differently) to take as causalities. Thraka is awesome! I would also get a group of Gretchins (19 of them with one runtherd is good). They can hold an objective and go to ground and an opponent might even over look them and thats a free objective for a little over 70pts I think.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/09 03:09:38


http://tyranidsbackwardsandforwards.blogspot.com/ Got a Nid ?'s get them answered there!

amhhs wrote:Hey Drummer,
you seem to be the most knowledgeable Nid player on Dakka.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Las Vegas

Thanks for the tips.

Anyone else? Please?

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

*cracks his knuckles*

Looks like you have a foot-slogging list except for a battlewagon full of Ghazghkull + Nobs.

1. Orks are awesome in mechanized, awesome in foot-slogging, but combining the two is a mistake. You present a SINGLE vehicle that is going to attract all anti-tank fire in existence. It will die. Its not hard to get side-armor shots on a Battlewagon, and since you've presented your most threatening unit inside your only vehicle, its pretty clear on what's going to happen next. Ghazghkull + nobs belong in a vehicle, but not if its going to be the only vehicle on the table.

2. Nobs should be individually equipped, but maximized for efficiency. When you assault, at best you're going to be going simultaneously with your non power klaws and last with the PKs. Anything other than the "at best" scenario involves you striking last, even when you assault. I don't think that big shootas or rokkits belong in a nob unit. With ballistic skill of two, they're pretty much going to miss, and they'll be wasted points, and if you shoot a rokkit at a vehicle, then you're going to have to assault it in which case you're still doing something wrong. All you *need* to do is differentiate them. You can do the same with an ammo runt. Here's my favorite configuration

1. Painboy
2. Waaugh! Banner
3. Bosspole
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw, Ammo Runt
6. Powerklaw, Kombi-Skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big Choppa, Ammo Runt
9. Big Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha
10. Normal Nob

If I'm going to take casualties, I try getting my bosspoke, normal nob, normal big choppa to die first. My painboy, Waaugh! banner, and powerklaws *must* live until the end if I can. All are equipped differently, there's plenty of ownage, and you won't really run into a scenario where you having 5 powerklaws is going to do more killing than my 3 powerklaws if you're playing tactically - anything that my Nob squad + Ghazghkull can't kill....they don't assault. IE, terminators with power weapons, Archon+Incubi and all their power weapons. That's where Ghazghkull breaks off, declares a Waaugh! and goes to assault them by himself while the Nobs kill something lesser.

Also, having tried it both ways, I firmly believe that cybork bodies are a waste on your nob squad. If you play your nobs properly, you will have 4+ armor, 4+ feel no pain, and mine ride to battle in a trukk. No one templates my nobs until they kill my trukk, which has cover whenever possible, and when my nobs get out, they're either in cover getting a 4+ cover save, or they're assaulting and not getting shot at. That means that the only time cybork is relevant is when you're in close combat against powerklaws, and again - if something has enough power weapons to kill my nobs, I assault them with something else. Do the math on this one: A squad of 12 boyz with a nob and powerklaw assault a squad of 5 terminators who all have lightning claws. The Orks will lose, but they'll kill more points than they lost.

3. Your lootas are a mistake. With Orks, you either go big, or you don't bring it at all. Take 15 Lootas, or leave them off your list. As it stands, if someone kills a couple of your Lootas, they're going to take a leadership test and run off the table. When I take Lootas, there are ALWAYS 15 of them. They're either in a battlewagon on the rear edge of my table providing a fire base, or they're sitting in cover doing the same. 10 Lootas is asking for trouble; take 15 or take none. At the same time....Orks are awesome shooting, awesome assaulting, but you're not a balanced space marine; you don't get both. You either make an awesome shooty list or an awesome assaulty list. Your strength is in maximizing what you're good at. If you're going to take a foot slogging list, it tends to lean towards shooting. Simply because in 5th edition and with the new Ork Codex, the Ork Shoota boy is the most efficient model in the game.

You have 3 attacks on the charge, and are assault 2 with your shoota. Again though, your foot-slogging squads of shoota boyz need to be 30 strong, not 20. As for slugga/choppa vs. Shoota boyz, those two shots make up for missing an extra one in close combat. You strike at initiative 3 on the charge, which means you STILL go after the enemy, and being able to kill ANY of the enemy unit before you charge them HUGELY decreases the losses you take with your *cough* 6+ armor save.

4. Gretchin: Personally, I think gretchin are invaluable for a foot-slogging list, but not for the reason most people use them for. Yes, gretchin can go to ground, get a 3+ save and sit on an objective half the game, and that's a huge waste of a troops choice. When I take a floot slogging list, I take a 107 point gretchin squad. 29 Gretchin, 2 Runt-herders. I string them across the entire front of my army, and I now have 4+ cover saves on everything. You don't need to try checkerboarding or anything fancy, because your gretchin cause everything behind them to get a 4+ cover save since they're shooting through a unit. Having hundreds of 6 point models with 4+ cover saves mean that you're going to take ridiculously few losses as you cross the table...gretchin are expendable and MEANT to die to protect their Ork slavers.

5. That brings us back to Ghazghkull. He's permanently slow and purposeful. He's awesome with Nobs, but he and nobs don't BELONG in a foot-slogging list. They're going to draw fire, and you're going to see your points evaporate. Use them in a mechanized list. Your HQ would be better served with a warboss, or a weirdboy, or Mad Dok. Mad Dok can make a unit work just as well as Gretchin for cover saves. Try this:

Mad Dok Grotsnik attached to a unit of 'Ard Boyz means that you have 30 ravening Orks with 4+ armor and 4+ feel no pain, and they cost 10 points apiece. In a mechanized list, you can take 19 'Ard Boyz and Mad Dok inside a battlewagon and direct where they go since he doesn't get nuts until he's on the ground with an enemy in sight. That's a great way to give cover saves too.

6. Killa-Kans: Rokkits and big shootas are sort of wasted against the awesome power of the Grotzooka. Assault 2 small blast template....yeah. Also, you're taking 6 of them, which covers a lot of points and two heavy support spots. With everything described above, you have ample troop killing power, but no anti-tank, which is really the weak point in any Ork list. Killa-kans are a dreadnought, so they're strength10 in close combat, which can wreak a vehicle, except that your kans probably aren't going to get to an enemy vehicle. Honestly, with the way 5th edition works, I think people using killa-kans to give cover saves to their army is pointless given how effective gretchin are doing the same.

7. Stormboyz are awesome in a foot slogging list. You should have some. They go fast. Really fast.

8. Kommandos: I believe that Snikrot is pretty much worth taking in ANY list if for no other reason than the psychological damage it causes to your enemy. Tell them all about Snikrot and what he can do. They'll second guess their own deployment, try staying away from the board edges, and play less than effectively. He can assault from any board edge, and if you take two burnas, you've got two power weapons in there too. Snikrot's squad is a great way to wipe out a stronghold, onion formation, Tau, IG, Shooty marines....yeah.

9. Anti-tank: Orks are always weak against anti-tank. Rokkit buggies or Deff Koptas do reasonably well; you can outflank with the Deff Koptas to get side and rear armor shots, except with land raiders; the only defense here is pretty much your Warboss and powerklaws. I'm trying to work tankbustas into my own army, but I prefer mechanized lists, which get me into full army vs army assault by turn 2.

There's my two cents. Also the $87 that came after it.


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Las Vegas

Wow! So I owe you $87.02?

Actually, I appreciate it! I'm lacking some much needed experience that you graciously provided. I'll have to look into some things and throw up a revised list. I'd like to go Mech but I also like Foot Slogging. I guess I'd better pick one.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

You can play either one, just not both at the same time.

There's a third option, which is a shooty army.

3 squads of 15 Lootas, in kitted out battlewagons hanging on your back line, 2 Big meks with Shokk attack guns in each, several squads of Shoota boyz with Big shootas, and a bunch of either Deff dreads or Killa-kans (Deff Dreads are a troops choice with a Mek) with more shooty firepower.

You can lay down more firepower than a Tau gunline, but again...you're weak on anti-tank.

   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




Atlanta

Dashofpepper wrote:
1. Painboy
2. Waaugh! Banner
3. Bosspole
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw, Ammo Runt
6. Powerklaw, Kombi-Skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big Choppa, Ammo Runt
9. Big Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha
10. Normal Nob

If I'm going to take casualties, I try getting my bosspoke, normal nob, normal big choppa to die first.


What in the world... Ammo runt goes to the regular boy, Bosspole goes to the PowerKlaw Nob. Unless you just want the unit to actually run away...? Kill the bosspole first... Wut kind of pansy git iz you?

Dashofpepper wrote:
In a mechanized list, you can take 19 'Ard Boyz and Mad Dok inside a battlewagon and direct where they go since he doesn't get nuts until he's on the ground with an enemy in sight.


Not true.

Ork FAQ wrote:
Once aboard, the vehicle must always move in such a way as to move as fast as possible towards the closest enemy and allow Grotsnik to disembark and charge the closest enemy as soon as possible.


Beyond that, I think I agree with everything Dashofpepper stated, and have just a little bit to add here. You've got three squads of boyz, none at full strength, and you have one flagged as "rear guard", those being shoota boyz. Always max out your squads if you can, and get those shoota boyz up front so they can make use of their range!

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. -- Sun-tzu
The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving on. -- Ulysses S. Grant
Armies and records (w/l/d) (1v1 only)
Orks: ~8500pts -- 2009: 52/2/7 & 17/2/6 in RTTs -- Casual size 85% Painted
Empire: 7000pts -- 2009:19/6/11 & 3/1/5 in RTTs -- Casual size 50% Painted
Marines: 2000pts -- 2009: 4/2/0 -- 20% Painted
Kroot Mercenaries - ~1500pts -- 2009: 0/1/1
Vampire Counts: 1850pts -- 2009: 9/3/4 -- Paint? We're dead...
Skaven (Work in Progress) - ~4000pts -- 2012: 1/1/1 -- Unpainted
Tau (Work in Progress) - 1500pts -- 2012: 5/1/1 -- 20% Painted 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

My nobs don't run away. The only reason I take a bosspole is to give me a distinct wound group. Ghazghkull is attached my my nob unit and he also has a bosspole. The only time I've run into a case where my nobs ran away, there were only two of them left anyway.

The turn that they charge into combat, they're fearless anyway with Ghazghkull's Waaugh, presumptions aren't safe. =p

Yeah, I knock off the bosspole, he's less important in there than anything else. My nobs kill and win, I'm not worried about losing and having to try passing my leadership to stay in combat.

   
 
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