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Not me, by the way.

Well, in my experience, either they are trying to protect their own job, or if they are new, trying to "put there foot down". Happened to me whilst on the way up to Asst. Manager at a subway.

Had a similar thing occur at my work place about 4 years ago: Our general manager left and was replaced by the owner's daughter. At first she tried to get on with everyone, but after a couple of weeks we realised that a)She was hopelessly incompetent b)She had the social skills of a rat.

Out of the fifteen people who worked there, six were fired for 'being rude' -in reality, they were simply pointing out that raising the price of beer by 20% was stupid- and another four walked out in protest. I managed to hang on for about 4 months until i got offered a job elsewhere, then walked out in the middle of a busy shift after being told i wasn't 'prioritising' properly.

That best worker may have deserved more than what the company was willing to offer.

I know why it happens, but I guess I'm just frustrated.

I do like that everyone is sharing, though. Helps me vent.

Over qualification.
If someone under your employee feels they can just bolt and land a job that pays more, then it's hard to control them through intimidation of loss of employment.
Which is one of the main ways many employers 'motivate' their workers.

It's probably because they do feel threatened. If you feel you are in this type of situation and you want to stay on you'll just have to figure out how to placate them. Asking them for advice and making them look good really helps a lot. You might not personally respect your boss but you should respect their position. If they are doing a lousy job then hopefully they will eventually be replaced or made redundant.

G

I'm going with the "feels threatened" explanation. Back when I worked at Whole Foods, my boss was always aggressive with me starting when I wrote up a proposition for how we could fix our department's ordering problems. I was told by a coworker (boss's assistant) that he thought I was gunning for his job, but that he wouldn't dare fire me because I was the only person in my station at my department worth a damn. I switched departments a few weeks later and took everyone who was competent with me then watched with glee as my old department fell apart.

Again, GBF: Not me.

A lot of managers are very bad at being managers. This is because they got the job through connections, most commonly family but don't underestimate the power of golf club membership. Just as common, though, are skilled professional (say, an accountant or engineer) was promoted away from their areas of expertise, finding themselves in roles that require people skills they don't have.

From there, once a boss realises he isn't on top of things he'll start feeling insecure. Then he'll start rewarding non-threatening lackeys, and punishing competent, independent employees. And that means that good employees will get fired every so often. It sucks, but what can you do?

Bad workers usually have inflated senses of self worth and hence believe that managers fire their best workers.

The best workers are better than the employers so the employers dont approve so the employers think 'ONOES THIS CANT HAPPEN LETS FIRE EM THAT OUGHTA TEACH EM' so they fire them because they think that'll teach them what it means to be better than the employers.

Because they find someone who can work for cheaper.

Gandair wrote:Because they find someone who can work for cheaper.

Exactly. This may have more to do with seniority than competence, but if an employer has to make cut backs, especially in this economy, then they will look at the people who are paid the most first. Even if they are great workers, if they are getting paid much more than the average Joe they can pull off the street then they will lay that person off and hire the other for less money.

The correct answer is because keeping your job isn't really about how well you do the job. It's often about how well you're liked or if you're perceived to be valuable -- even if your performance doesn't really support that perception.

Pay *can* come into it. But unless the company's finances are dire or there's a gross disparity in salary, they're not going to keep someone they don't like over someone they do because of a minor difference in pay.

The same things happens with hiring. The best qualified candidates don't always get the job. The job tends to go to the person perceived to be the best overall fit. Personality, attitude, looks, etc. can all weigh heavily there.

In one of my previous jobs they fired/laid off people who had been there far longer than me and did more work than I were willing to. It was generally because they either didn't get along with management, wouldn't change with the times, or just weren't doing their jobs. In my experience good workers don't get fired "just because". It happens because they pissed off somebody or got somebody who makes less to do their job for them.

Green Blow Fly wrote:It's probably because they do feel threatened. If you feel you are in this type of situation and you want to stay on you'll just have to figure out how to placate them. Asking them for advice and making them look good really helps a lot. You might not personally respect your boss but you should respect their position. If they are doing a lousy job then hopefully they will eventually be replaced or made redundant.

G

Yeah, that. Also, perfection is the natural enemy of the spawn of "good enough" and "cheaper".

True, managers often get the job because of connections. When I worked at Subway, the last manager I worked under had the following resume.

Worked at Viracon [glass manufacturing company] for 8 years. Was a shift leader/supervisor or whatever.
Quit Viracon to open his own business.
Said business failed 21 days after opening.

Thus, led him to Subway.

Um, 8 years as a manager is a pretty good qualification to work as a manager. The whole business failure thing is pretty much irrelevant after that, especially considering that most small businesses fail in the first year.

Because my boss is a penny-pinching witch who would rather have a willing sock puppet who jumps at every beck and call instead of someone who well, feth it.

Well, I see many in my work overlooked despite being the best, I see those who are rewarded and elevated often being less competent and somewhat lacking in flair or dynamism.

But the ones who are overlooked will say 'no, because I do not agree', whilst the less talented or hard working who are rewarded simply say 'yes, of course, whatever you want', irregardless of practicality, logic, common sense etc. And so certain folks are 'invested in' for they possess that singular skill, the ability to suck ass like they love it.

Because whilst the emperor might not be wearing any clothes, he is still the emperor...

Well when I get fired, and more than likely it will be when, its because I disagree with the slowed policies at this job and the higher ups refusal to change it despite multiple people, primarily people that we contract to, complaining about it.

Also because I surf the internet at work rather than stare at the wall for ten hours.

I've never seen a boss fire his best worker. Every person I've seen get fired was either a) a lazy piece of ass, b) not really good at anything (shouldn't have been hired to begin with), c) a good worker (worked hard, was effective, etc) but ended up breaking company laws of some sort.

gorgon wrote:The correct answer is because keeping your job isn't really about how well you do the job. It's often about how well you're liked or if you're perceived to be valuable -- even if your performance doesn't really support that perception.

Pay *can* come into it. But unless the company's finances are dire or there's a gross disparity in salary, they're not going to keep someone they don't like over someone they do because of a minor difference in pay.

The same things happens with hiring. The best qualified candidates don't always get the job. The job tends to go to the person perceived to be the best overall fit. Personality, attitude, looks, etc. can all weigh heavily there.

Totally. Nepotism is also a factor.

In my company there are a number of well-paid staff who are surprisingly incompetent but they were hired by managers who went to the same university, etc, and at the recruitment stage were preferred over internal candidates with better qualifications.

When the hatchet is wielded, it tends to fall on people the boss doesn't like.

dogma wrote:Um, 8 years as a manager is a pretty good qualification to work as a manager. The whole business failure thing is pretty much irrelevant after that, especially considering that most small businesses fail in the first year.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. He worked at Viracon for 8 years. Had had the management position for barely 6 months before leaving for his own business.

I don't know about the USA but most managers in the UK have little or no management education.

OTOH the UK turns out more MBA graduates than the rest of western Europe put together, but our management is still terrible.

Of course the real purpose of an MBA is to enhance your salary band.

The only 'firings' I've ever seen were against workers of were genuinely useless or had done something to embarrass the company. Bizarrely most were done on technicalities, its amazing what some companies with interpret as 'gross misconduct' when they decide they want rid of an employee. If a otherwise good employee fouls up (which does happen and I speak from personal experience) but the company wants' to keep them, it’s a disciplinary that’s removed within 6 months. If the company wants rid of you they will interpret the most trivial things as gross misconduct.

One girl at my old job was discovered to have been some nudie modelling on the net. When the bosses found out they did some digging and found they wouldn't hadn't a leg to stand on if they dismissed her for this as it was outside of work. So they dismissed her for improper use of the Internet, basically she had paid some bill on-line at work which is something that almost everyone at work here does and the bosses have never been bothered about before.

If your boss decides they want you out then they will find a way.

Bosses are people too!

In fact, this is the reason a competent worker will often be laid off ahead of another, more able, worker.

Your boss has the ability to move the goalposts, often on a personal whim, us grunts don't....

Sad, but true.

Kilkrazy wrote:I don't know about the USA but most managers in the UK have little or no management education.

That same sentence is true in the US, but remove the word "management".

Much of it really varies from field to field. I work at a hospital, where results are very important and often difficult to come by. This means that valued employees are kept, and kept happy; otherwise healthcare would suffer, which means that business would suffer. I can see it being the other way in places of business where your bottom line isn't as affected as much by employees that aren't top notch.

Also, the "good fit" aspect is very, very important when you have a job that requires teamwork. We've interviewed people that had terrific technical skills (I work in information technology) but abysmal communication skills. We are constantly communicating, both internally and with our "customers", who would not tolerate someone who couldn't get what they were saying and then translate that into an IT project.

Iorek wrote:

Also, the "good fit" aspect is very, very important when you have a job that requires teamwork. We've interviewed people that had terrific technical skills (I work in information technology) but abysmal communication skills. We are constantly communicating, both internally and with our "customers", who would not tolerate someone who couldn't get what they were saying and then translate that into an IT project.

Totally, I work in IT as well and I've seen some people who were technically superb but you wouldn't want anywhere near the customers. Either being rude or patronising to anyone less technical than they were (Customers or colleagues) or just stammering and fumbling in when talking to anyone. Some were swiftly moved to non-front line roles, if they showed promise in the right areas, others were removed as quickly as possible. Being a socially inept techie just isn't enough for lots of jobs these days.