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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/10 15:22:10
Subject: Rise of the Independents
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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A cautionary tale for both parties.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124459129882600069.html
OPINION JUNE 10, 2009 Independents and the Obama Mandate
A recent survey suggests little appetite for big government.Article more in Opinion »Email Printer
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By JOHN P. AVLON
In the months since Barack Obama won the presidency, independent voters have rocketed to their highest number on record. Meanwhile, the ranks of Republicans and Democrats have thinned dramatically.
Independents hold the balance of power in the Obama era. That's the conclusion of a recent, 165-page Pew Research Center survey that shows independent voters climbed to 39% from 30% of the electorate in the five months following the 2008 election. During that same time, Democratic identification fell to 33% from 39%, while Republicans fell four points to 22% -- their lowest since post-Watergate.
This is evidence that President Obama's election does not represent a liberal ideological mandate, as House Democrats have claimed. It also shows continued rejection of the Republican brand.
On virtually every policy issue, independents are situated between increasingly polarized Democrats and Republicans. They more accurately reflect centrist national attitudes than the 11% of Americans who describe themselves as liberal Democrats or the 15% who call themselves conservative Republicans.
Independents are nonideological problem-solvers, but they do not have a split-the-difference approach to politics. They are fiscally conservative but socially progressive, with a strong libertarian streak. It's on fiscal issues that independents are putting the Obama administration on notice.
Bailout backlash is reflected in independents' attitude about the expanding social safety net. Just 43% believe that we "should help more needy people, even if it means going deeper into debt" -- down 14 points over two years. Independents' belief that "labor unions are necessary to protect the working person" has declined 23% since 2003. They are closer to the Republican view that government is usually wasteful and inefficient.
Independents are now the youngest voting block overall: 44% of Americans born after 1977 identify as independent. Republicans are the oldest voter cohort, with just 19% of those born since '77 identifying with the GOP. Demographics are destiny.
There are now more independents in the West and Midwest than there are Democrats or Republicans. In the South, independents are one point behind first-place Democrats. In the Northeast, where Republicans have gone from near parity 20 years ago to 20% today, independent voters have picked up the GOP's declining voter rolls. Without a single Republican congressman left in New England, and Democrats at 38% of the local electorate, independents have become the de facto opposition at 37%.
Republican resurgence depends on finding common cause with independent voters. A return to fiscal responsibility offers that opportunity, but it is blocked by perceptions that social conservatives control the party.
In order to win these voters, the hunt for heretics has got to stop. The reality is that all young voters are less conservative on social issues ranging from gay rights to the role of religion in politics. A big tent can be rebuilt on Republican principles of fiscal responsibility and national security, but it will require the politics of addition -- not division.
For the Obama administration, the rise of independents so soon after the election should be a wake-up call. While Mr. Obama remains very popular among independents, their approval of the Democrat-controlled Congress is at 29%. Independents identify with the president's desire to overcome the left-right divide, but his fiscal record looks increasingly at odds with his rhetoric of responsibility.
To close this gap, Mr. Obama should follow through on his promise to pursue entitlement reform in the name of generational responsibility. This will require cultivating a centrist congressional coalition and standing up to liberal interests. But it is the only way to rein in the long-term budget deficit.
A political reformation is underway. As more voters declare their independence, the age of play-to-the-base politics is over.
Mr. Avlon, a columnist for the Web site The Daily Beast, is the author of "Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics" (Three Rivers Press, 2005).
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/10 15:30:01
Subject: Rise of the Independents
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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As long as money and primary votes and congressional votes come from the base, the base will continue to call the tune.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/10 15:37:08
Subject: Rise of the Independents
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Unless they lose of course.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/10 15:42:21
Subject: Rise of the Independents
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Independent is more of 'not democrat and not republican - for the time being'. Unless there's a serious third party threat in major elections, the percent of the voting public that is independent is irrelevant. I thought that with Ventura being governor, Perot's candidacy, etc., that there would be a real third party by now. I don't see a third party having a meaningful presidential candidate until they're winning House, Senate, and Governor seats for about 20 years.
I do agree that it doesn't mean the American public is supporting a liberal agenda. They just got tired of the Republicans.
And considering that the Republicans won Congress in the mid-90's on the anti-democratic tide, both parties should understand that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/10 15:43:05
In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/10 15:51:34
Subject: Re:Rise of the Independents
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Wrack Sufferer
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I like that independents control the political atmosphere at this point. I'm kind of tired of republicans in general, and I don't believe they will be able to win much in the future. Possibly the final emergence of a viable third party?
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Once upon a time, I told myself it's better to be smart than lucky. Every day, the world proves me wrong a little more. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/10 18:48:29
Subject: Rise of the Independents
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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There will be a third party at the precise moment that someone takes a vested interest in articulating a moderate agenda. As it stand such people have a much easier path through either of the major parties. The people left out in the cold who go on to found third parties tend to be the crazies that are too extreme for even campaign rhetoric to encompass them.
Ron Paul might have had a shot if he hadn't been all about resetting the federal government. Regardless of whether or not you believe it would be a good idea I think its fairly obvious that such pie-in-the-sky thinking got in the way of articulating anything approaching a practical position.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/10 19:22:51
Subject: Rise of the Independents
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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This certainly seems like good news to me.
"Fiscally conservative but socially progressive, with a strong libertarian streak" is close enough to where I am.
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/10 20:04:31
Subject: Rise of the Independents
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
Indiana
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Independents are cool. I'm therefore cool.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/10 20:20:47
Subject: Rise of the Independents
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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We're the coolest.
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/10 20:31:14
Subject: Rise of the Independents
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
Indiana
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[img]pretend joe cool is here (damn picture won't work)[img]
coolest of the cool
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/10 20:32:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/10 20:38:08
Subject: Rise of the Independents
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Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer
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Orkeosaurus wrote:This certainly seems like good news to me.
"Fiscally conservative but socially progressive, with a strong libertarian streak" is close enough to where I am.
I've used that statement to describe my political beliefs on more than one occasion.
I think a large percentage of young adults ascribe to this political ideolegy as well.
It's nice to see us libertarians sneaking some time in the spotlight..
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/11 02:22:54
Subject: Rise of the Independents
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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More like:
- don't torture
- don't take more of my hard-earned money
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/06/11 14:10:16
Subject: Re:Rise of the Independents
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I have always voted Republican. My main reason being the abortion issue. I have to admit that I have grown more liberal in my thinking over the last 20 years, never on core values such as abortion, gay marriage, the right to bear arms, among others. But when it comes to the social agenda like taxes, welfare, national health care, I have changed my views a lot. I used to love Limbaugh and Hannity, until I realized that they are really nothing more than entertainers, manipulating a certain mindset. I really don't think they believe half of what they spout. I really liked Glen beck when he was on the radio, I still do like him, but something seems different ahout him since he started on FOX. Also the Bush administration was a huge dissapointment for me.
Anyway I consider myself a liberal Republican. There really needs to be another legitimate party that can put pressure on the big 2.
By the way I couldn't stand Clinton either.
GG
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/11 14:10:51
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