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Hey There,

A friend of mine likes to play orks, and as such has a lot of infantry. Often the units get jumbled up as they move through each other (thankfully they have painted each squad with different colours so its easy to tell who belongs to which squad). However this creates a question about shooting and cover saves. Normally if there is a unit between the firing party and their target, the target gets a 4+ cover save. But what if the units are intermixed? For example lets say squad 1 is O's and squad 2 is X's. How would you assign cover saves in each of these formations?

Example 1
X O X O X O X O
O X O X O X O X
X O X O X O X O

Example 2
X X X X X O O O
X X X O O O O O
X X O O O O O O

Example 3
X X X X O O O O
O O O O X X X X
O O O O X X X X

Does that make sense? THe reason I am so confused is that if in these examples the units are BOTH counted as obscured (due to the mixing of units) then they woudl both get a 4+ cover save. This seems unbalanced in favour of assaulting armies as a shootng unit is only allowed to shoot at one unit. IE - there is no way for the shooter to pick out an unobscured unit.

Thanks for the help!

Gideon999 wrote:Hey There,

A friend of mine likes to play orks, and as such has a lot of infantry. Often the units get jumbled up as they move through each other (thankfully they have painted each squad with different colours so its easy to tell who belongs to which squad). However this creates a question about shooting and cover saves. Normally if there is a unit between the firing party and their target, the target gets a 4+ cover save. But what if the units are intermixed? For example lets say squad 1 is O's and squad 2 is X's. How would you assign cover saves in each of these formations?

Example 1
X O X O X O X O
O X O X O X O X
X O X O X O X O

Example 2
X X X X X O O O
X X X O O O O O
X X O O O O O O

Example 3
X X X X O O O O
O O O O X X X X
O O O O X X X X

Does that make sense? THe reason I am so confused is that if in these examples the units are BOTH counted as obscured (due to the mixing of units) then they woudl both get a 4+ cover save. This seems unbalanced in favour of assaulting armies as a shootng unit is only allowed to shoot at one unit. IE - there is no way for the shooter to pick out an unobscured unit.

Thanks for the help!

Well IIRC, you cannot just "move through" your own units, unless there is ample space between your models in another unit, to move a unit through. (exception being Skimmers, Jump Troops, etc.), so all of those formations would require him to leave enough space to allow his units to pass through.

If he does so, and both units are 50% or more obscured, then they would get a cover save. If your opponent does this often, be sure to bring ample pie-plates...

Ah, the ol' intermingled units.

The answer is - there is no answer. Or at least not a consistent one. Some people say it's valid. Some say that one unit has to be 'intervening' one, and that they can't 'intervene' each other.

INAT FAQ says that you can't do it.

The BoLS FAQ says that you can.

If you play that it is a valid tactic, then be sure to be checking movement carefully (can't move through own base), especially if Running in the shooting phase.

Yes, you can assume that all the models in these examples would be within 2" coherency, but with enough space that the bases of the models in the second squad can move between them.

This just seems horribly cheesy to me somehow as any assault based army can use this to run his troops across a wide open plain in open site with no actual cover, and abuse this rule to give all his units a 4+ cover save.

In real life (I know, its just a game, hehe) those troops would be massacred just as surely as if they were not mixed, so those shots shoudl seem to go somewhere, shouldnt they?

Don't the rules say that units are treated as impassable terrain for movement purposes? IE, you can't walk through a tank, you have to go around, and you can't walk through or drive through a unit, you have to go around it.

Yes, but it is near impossible to do.

INATFAQ forbids it.

So the un-official "official" rule is that you cannot mix units?

I think the un-official "official" rule is yes, you can mix units, but have moving them and maintaining coherency.

Cool, and thanks!

It's technically legal, as long as your models are far enough apart to move through each other, remember, friendly models are impassible terrain, enemy units are not. Big difference. Orkz have so many flailing limbs and such that it's pretty much impossible to pull off.

I personally won't play against anyone who tries to abuse rules in such an obvious way, and if I meat one in a tourney, I tell them how much of a spanker they are every other sentence.

Deffgob wrote:
I personally won't play against anyone who tries to abuse rules in such an obvious way, and if I meat one in a tourney, I tell them how much of a spanker they are every other sentence.

Which would be exceedingly unsportsmanlike, not to mention childish. Almost as much as throwing a hissyfit and walking away.

Mutual coversaves are perfectly legal and easy to pull off. Movement isn't too much of a problem as unit coherency is 2" and bases are about 1" wide. Flailing limbs are completely irrelevant.

Having said that, most people (myself included) consider it an oversight and as such shouldn't be done. The legality of the issue, on the other hand, is never in doubt.

what if they make the coversave? surely their mate should be blown up as they took the hit over the target ones?

Yeah, thats what I was thinking too. According to the INAT FAQ (read it last night), you CAN mix units, but the unit with the most models in front doesnt get the save, only the one it is mixed with. Seems better to me that way as its just as silly-seeming (to me at least) that units would not be allowed to mix if there is space.

Thanks for all the help!