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While this is completely irrelevant to all but the most friendly of games, I've discovered that Possessed gain +1 attack when they roll to have a Power Weapon (or so I believe). The bit about their abilities says that they gain "an extra" ability or gear. For Power Weapons it says something to the effect of "the weapons of the Possessed glow like Edward from Twilight and are super-magical." Considering that their entry in the back says that they are counted as holding a single close combat weapon, I am correct on this, yes?

No, they will not receive a bonus attack. Nothing Says they get a Power Weapon in Addition to their CCW. Rather it says they Get Power Weapon Attacks. It is a really poorly written rule actually.

The reason the Description says "Weapons" is because they can be modelled to have lots of Gribbly bitz, but always count as having a single Close Combat Weapon.
Oops made a Boo boo. Hooray for No Sleep!

Gwar! wrote:No, they will not receive a bonus attack. Nothing Says they get a Power Weapon in Addition to their CCW. Rather it says they Get Power Weapon Attacks. It is a really poorly written rule actually.

The reason the Description says "Weapons" is because they can be modelled to have lots of Gribbly bitz, but always count as having a single Close Combat Weapon.

"The Possessed unit will have the extra equipment or special rule indicated in the table below for the entire game."

It's a matter of that versus "Possessed count as equipped with a single close combat weapon." in the list entry. So does extra mean extra or not?

Well bugger me sideways with a fish, I missed that. (I blame the Lack of Sleep, not the rum this time.)

I heartily retract my statement as "Misinformed" and say that they do indeed gain a bonus attack.

Hooray for Lack of reading

So yeah, you roll a 6, they gain a Power Weapon and as such get a Bonus attack for having two weapons (inb4"They Are not Single handed")

If that's true, a 10-man squad with IoK gets 29 point models (who magically rolled a 6) with 5 S5 PW attacks on the charge. It could definitely be worded a little better I think. all of this to say the unit sucks unless you roll a 6.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:If that's true, a 10-man squad with IoK gets 29 point models (who magically rolled a 6) with 5 S5 PW attacks on the charge. It could definitely be worded a little better I think. all of this to say the unit sucks unless you roll a 6.

I think that is part of the "Balance"

They are hard core when you boost them with Fabius.

G

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:While this is completely irrelevant to all but the most friendly of games, I've discovered that Possessed gain +1 attack when they roll to have a Power Weapon (or so I believe). The bit about their abilities says that they gain "an extra" ability or gear. For Power Weapons it says something to the effect of "the weapons of the Possessed glow like Edward from Twilight and are super-magical." Considering that their entry in the back says that they are counted as holding a single close combat weapon, I am correct on this, yes?

Grats on getting you answer.

But I'm a bit concerned about your quoting of Twilight....

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:If that's true, a 10-man squad with IoK gets 29 point models (who magically rolled a 6) with 5 S5 PW attacks on the charge. It could definitely be worded a little better I think. all of this to say the unit sucks unless you roll a 6.

Or a 2 for Furious Charge, for S6 attacks on the charge, a 4 for rending, which is almost as good as PWs, or a a 5 for FNP.

Hell, a 1 or a 3 mean you're more likely to get the charge in the first place, and are only discounted as good options because you usually put posessed in rhinos.

Green Blow Fly wrote:They are hard core when you boost them with Fabius.

G

It is generally accepted that you cannot, and can only enhance regular vanilla marine squads.

Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:They are hard core when you boost them with Fabius.

G

It is generally accepted that you cannot, and can only enhance regular vanilla marine squads.

What he said.

Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:They are hard core when you boost them with Fabius.

G

It is generally accepted that you cannot, and can only enhance regular vanilla marine squads.

I hadn't heard of this before, but Possessed are actually "Possessed Chaos Space Marines". Ditto for Chosen Chaos Space Marine squads. This is interesting.

Page 53
"Any Number of Chaos Space Marine Squads....."
Only Chaos Space Marines. RAI and RAW are one and the same here.

Canonness Rory wrote:Page 53
"Any Number of Chaos Space Marine Squads....."
Only Chaos Space Marines. RAI and RAW are one and the same here.

This is an argument for a different thread that has been covered before. There are solid arguments for both sides.

Nurglitch wrote:

Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:They are hard core when you boost them with Fabius.

G

It is generally accepted that you cannot, and can only enhance regular vanilla marine squads.

I hadn't heard of this before, but Possessed are actually "Possessed Chaos Space Marines". Ditto for Chosen Chaos Space Marine squads. This is interesting.

Breaking news, An Green Apple is not the same as a Red Apple!

Bile says you can Enhance "Chaos Space Marine squads". Now, how many Units types are called "Chaos Space Marines". Hot damn, just 1! You can Enhance only Nilla Marines. Furthermore, they are not even Possessed Chaos Space marines, their unit name is "Possessed Space Marines" in both the Contents and the Unit Entry. 2 Cases vs 1.

Drudge Dreadnought:

Back on topic then. It seems the original poster is correct. The Possessed Chaos Space Marine unit in the army list count as being equipped with a single close combat weapon. If they roll a 6 on the Daemonkin chart, then they are also armed with Power weapons. That means a bonus attack as well as negating armour saving throws. This is pretty cool.

I would field these guys over 'zerkers in a second if I knew I'd always roll a 6. A champ's PW costs 15 points so you actually save a point and the cost of the champ upgrade, and get Str 5 and Fearless for free.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I would field these guys over 'zerkers in a second if I knew I'd always roll a 6. A champ's PW costs 15 points so you actually save a point and the cost of the champ upgrade, and get Str 5 and Fearless for free.

That's why you always have two (and only 2) weighted dice in your collection. One for 1's and 1 for 6's

Gwar! wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I would field these guys over 'zerkers in a second if I knew I'd always roll a 6. A champ's PW costs 15 points so you actually save a point and the cost of the champ upgrade, and get Str 5 and Fearless for free.

That's why you always have two (and only 2) weighted dice in your collection. One for 1's and 1 for 6's

You know, the rulebook never clarifies what a "six-sided die" is. By all rights, it could be a die with 6s on every side. It would therefore be "six-sided."

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I would field these guys over 'zerkers in a second if I knew I'd always roll a 6. A champ's PW costs 15 points so you actually save a point and the cost of the champ upgrade, and get Str 5 and Fearless for free.

That's why you always have two (and only 2) weighted dice in your collection. One for 1's and 1 for 6's

You know, the rulebook never clarifies what a "six-sided die" is. By all rights, it could be a die with 6s on every side. It would therefore be "six-sided."

And people call me TFG

Sorry but Possessed are indeed Chaos SM. It would be like saying a convertible Corvette is not a Corvette just because you can also drop the top. This all goes back to the question where does the codex define just what is a Chaos SM.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Sorry but Possessed are indeed Chaos SM. It would be like saying a convertible Corvette is not a Corvette just because you can also drop the top. This all goes back to the question where does the codex define just what is a Chaos SM.

G

This is not a Case of that. "Possessed Chaos Space Marines" are not "Chaos Space Marines", just like "Hormagaunts" are not "Gaunts".

Chaos Space Marines, pp.26-27. Codex: Chaos Space Marines

The "Possessed Space Marines" section is kind of weird, since it's "Possessed Chaos Space Marines" in the army list, and "Possessed Chaos Space Marines" wouldn't fit into the space allotted for entry headings in the Forces of Chaos section.

They are Chaos Space Marines.

G

They're in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, certainly. So are Summoned Daemons, and Summoned Daemons are not Chaos Space Marines. The Codex defines what is a Chaos Space Marine on pp.26-27.

I'm inclined to include Possessed in that category because they are called "Possessed Chaos Space Marines" in the army list section of the book.

weird I always assumed (rightly or wrongly) that he meant any unit in codex "Chaos Space Marine" could take the upgrade for 3pts

OT: I go with this definition also. so "Chaos Space Marines" applies to Chaos Space Marines, Havocs, Chosen and Bikers. The point being that they are mentioned by name on pages 26-27 and not just have similar words in their name. I think they should FAQ this so there is no more argument.

Homer

Nurglitch wrote:Chaos Space Marines, pp.26-27. Codex: Chaos Space Marines

The "Possessed Space Marines" section is kind of weird, since it's "Possessed Chaos Space Marines" in the army list, and "Possessed Chaos Space Marines" wouldn't fit into the space allotted for entry headings in the Forces of Chaos section.

It specifically says "Chaos Space Marine squad". I am at a loss at how anyone can extend it beyond a "Chaos Space Marine squad".

As for the Corvette reference; It doesn't change the fact that it is a Corvette, but if I order the hydraulics for the convertible top it doesn't do crap for a non-convertible Corvette.

Just as if I have Fabius Bile try and use enhanced on a unit that isn't a "Chaos Space Marine squad". It won't do anything.

Brother Ramses wrote:It specifically says "Chaos Space Marine squad". I am at a loss at how anyone can extend it beyond a "Chaos Space Marine squad".

Don't worry, anyone who plays by the rules is in agreement with you. It seems that some people don't like playing by the rules -shrug-

In regards to powerweapons:

I don't see where it says that they gain a power weapon. It says they will have "the special rule or extra equipment". For a 6 it says Power Weapon. If you only read the bold, it could certainly be interpreted that they gain a power weapon. But then in the following text it clarifies: "A shimmering daemonic aura surrounds the weapons of the Possessed." It doesn't say "The Possessesd all have power weapons." I'd interpret this to mean that they are gaining the Power Weapon special rule on their existing weapon, not that they are being given a power weapon.

I do see the counter argument to this however, which is that it says special rule or equipment. 1-5 are certainly not equipment as they are only special rules. 6 could however be equipment, but do to the wording it still looks more like a special rule to me.

In regards to bile:

Argument 1) He can enhance "Chaos Space Marines" and only 1 type of unit in the army list is called that.

Argument 2) He can enhance "Chaos Space Marines". In the unit description Havocs, Chosen, and Bikers are all under the heading of "Chaos Space Marines" on page 26-27

Argument 3) The entire codex is "Chaos Space Marines". This seems flawed however, as there are things in the codex that are most certainly NOT chaos space marines (daemons, vehicles).

When it comes down to it, nobody knows. The safest option is 1. However, it makes Bile pretty bad. If you go with 2, it makes Bile armies cooler and more interesting while still being far from competitive. I'd never complain about somone using 2 personally, but thats my RAI.