Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With 'Ard Boyz comming up I was thinking of running my DE< However I have some questions that come up every now and then, with the help of my fellow posters I am looking to head off any potential rules debate during the games.

1) Is there anything preventing me from deploying a webway portal from inside my transport in 5th ed?

2) Is the Webway portal a large or small blast? Does it matter either way?

3) Do the Spoiler fins or the fitted blades count as part of the hull for LOS purposes? Specifically for Cover saves from Terrain or other models.

4) Can I deploy the portal while locked in CC? Reading the text one would infer its a heavy weapon, but it is not actually a weapon of any sort. As a piece of wargear with no restriction on its usage is this okay? (E.G. Nightmare Shroud says specifically not in CC) EDIT: Neither does it say "instead of firing a weapon" simply "May not move or shoot", if both these requirements are met what is stopping me?

5) If Enemy models "Fall Back" into my Webway portal are they destroyed due to it being my table edge? Or do they go around it?

6) Do weapon mounts on DE vehicles have a 360 degree LOS? The ones I bought are glued down with a magnet on top of them, but the way they connect together would seem to indicate the gun can indeed spin around. Ignore the warrior holding the gun for this question.

7) Will choosing "always strike first" for combat drugs beat a Banshees mask? It says regardless of weapons or cover, but not wargear.

8) Will a small blast marker from a unit killed by a Stinger scatter? The text lends itself to just placing and not moving it, but the 5th rules say all blasts scatter.

9) If a fearless unit is defeated in CC by a unit of Grotesques, do they take No Retreat! wounds automatically due to Terrifying Opponent rule? Does it even matter>?

10) If a Dreadnought shoots my Raider but does not blow it up, with a Razorback shooting next and killing it, can the Dreadnought charge the passengers? The Text for assaulting passengers is a bit vague since it simply says "shoot at the transport". The text implies that the unit who assaults the passengers be the one who killed the transport, but it is a bit unclear. Or maybe I am just reading it wrong?

11) Due to the wording on the Grotesque's Feel No Pain, am I correct in understanding that unless you shoot the squad (with a IC in it) with a Str 6+ weapon every shot is discounted? Due to it negating "hits" and not "wounds", you do not accolate hits in 5th which turns the Grotesques into a "mystic Shield" for the IC. Am I correct?

12) Am I correct in assuming due to the rewrite of the Reaver Jetbike in the FAQ that I can now take 2H weapons such as the Punisher?

Not got my codex on me atm, but I'll answer the ones I can with a modicum of Certainty

Ragewind wrote:3) Do the Spoiler fins or the fitted blades count as part of the hull for LOS purposes? Specifically for Cover saves from Terrain or other models.

They don't count as hull, but they do count for LoS

6) Do weapon mounts on DE vehicles have a 360 degree LOS? The ones I bought are glued down with a magnet on top of them, but the way they connect together would seem to indicate the gun can indeed spin around. Ignore the warrior holding the gun for this question.

If a Weapon Looks like it can fire 360, it can fire 360 (as per the rulebook and Rulebook FAQ)

7) Will choosing "always strike first" for combat drugs beat a Banshees mask? It says regardless of weapons or cover, but not wargear.

Yes, Striking first means Striking First. Banshees do not strike first, they are I10.

10) If a Dreadnought shoots my Raider but does not blow it up, with a Razorback shooting next and killing it, can the Dreadnought charge the passengers? The Text for assaulting passengers is a bit vague since it simply says "shoot at the transport". The text implies that the unit who assaults the passengers be the one who killed the transport, but it is a bit unclear. Or maybe I am just reading it wrong?

No, only the unit who did the firing can assault the passengers if the transport Blew up

11) Due to the wording on the Grotesque's Feel No Pain, am I correct in understanding that unless you shoot the squad (with a IC in it) with a Str 6+ weapon every shot is discounted? Due to it negating "hits" and not "wounds", you do not accolate hits in 5th which turns the Grotesques into a "mystic Shield" for the IC. Am I correct?

How it works is thus: You get hit by 5 Bolter Shots and 1 Assault Cannon hit, you can allocate the Bolter hits to the Grotesques just fine, they just wont do anything. You then assaign the Assault Cannon on whoever you want.

12) Am I correct in assuming due to the rewrite of the Reaver Jetbike in the FAQ that I can now take 2H weapons such as the Punisher?

Correct but due to erreta, not the rewrite

Appologies for not answering the more DE specific Questions, I do not play them.

Ragewind wrote:With 'Ard Boyz comming up I was thinking of running my DE< However I have some questions that come up every now and then, with the help of my fellow posters I am looking to head off any potential rules debate during the games.

1) Is there anything preventing me from deploying a webway portal from inside my transport in 5th ed?

The deployment rules for the WW portal read something along the lines of "place the tip of the blast marker in contact with the models base". Based off that wording, you would have to deploy the portal touching the base or hull of the Raider, not in it.

2) Is the Webway portal a large or small blast? Does it matter either way?

I use large, never figured which one was right.

3) Do the Spoiler fins or the fitted blades count as part of the hull for LOS purposes? Specifically for Cover saves from Terrain or other models.

I would say say yes, it would count towards the hull

4) Can I deploy the portal while locked in CC? Reading the text one would infer its a heavy weapon, but it is not actually a weapon of any sort. As a piece of wargear with no restriction on its usage is this okay? (E.G. Nightmare Shroud says specifically not in CC) EDIT: Neither does it say "instead of firing a weapon" simply "May not move or shoot", if both these requirements are met what is stopping me?

I don't have my dex with me, but judging from the wording, I would say yes, you can delpoy it during CC.

5) If Enemy models "Fall Back" into my Webway portal are they destroyed due to it being my table edge? Or do they go around it?

Go around it would be my guess, since it's treated as your board edge for the PURPOSE of reserves, not ACTUALLY a table edge.

6) Do weapon mounts on DE vehicles have a 360 degree LOS? The ones I bought are glued down with a magnet on top of them, but the way they connect together would seem to indicate the gun can indeed spin around. Ignore the warrior holding the gun for this question.

Yes, that has been FAQ'd they are pintle-mounted (360 arc)

7) Will choosing "always strike first" for combat drugs beat a Banshees mask? It says regardless of weapons or cover, but not wargear.

8) Will a small blast marker from a unit killed by a Stinger scatter? The text lends itself to just placing and not moving it, but the 5th rules say all blasts scatter.

No would be my guess since there is no role to 'hit when you place it

9) If a fearless unit is defeated in CC by a unit of Grotesques, do they take No Retreat! wounds automatically due to Terrifying Opponent rule? Does it even matter>?

Yes they would take no reatreat wounds.

10) If a Dreadnought shoots my Raider but does not blow it up, with a Razorback shooting next and killing it, can the Dreadnought charge the passengers? The Text for assaulting passengers is a bit vague since it simply says "shoot at the transport". The text implies that the unit who assaults the passengers be the one who killed the transport, but it is a bit unclear. Or maybe I am just reading it wrong?

Yes, you must charge what you shoot, and you are allowe3d to charge the passengers of a vehicle you shot at

11) Due to the wording on the Grotesque's Feel No Pain, am I correct in understanding that unless you shoot the squad (with a IC in it) with a Str 6+ weapon every shot is discounted? Due to it negating "hits" and not "wounds", you do not accolate hits in 5th which turns the Grotesques into a "mystic Shield" for the IC. Am I correct?

ONLY str 6 shooting attacks can hurt a grotesqe, and yes they are insta killed, in CC they take wounds asd normal. Their Feel No Pain overrides the rulebook FNP
12) Am I correct in assuming due to the rewrite of the Reaver Jetbike in the FAQ that I can now take 2H weapons such as the Punisher?

Yes you are

Ok, here is my take as I play only Dark Eldar and have played in many GW tournament. Just my opinion understand!

Ragewind wrote: 1) Is there anything preventing me from deploying a webway portal from inside my transport in 5th ed?

No, the wwp blast template must touch the model base that “activates” it – the raider doesn’t activate it.

2) Is the Webway portal a large or small blast? Does it matter either way?

The small round template is referred to as the “blast template” – the “blast” template is named in the wwp description.

3) Do the Spoiler fins or the fitted blades count as part of the hull for LOS purposes? Specifically for Cover saves from Terrain or other models.

We play at as it is part of the hull when being shot at. I also count these parts for disembarking purposes as well.

4) Can I deploy the portal while locked in CC? Reading the text one would infer its a heavy weapon, but it is not actually a weapon of any sort. As a piece of wargear with no restriction on its usage is this okay? (E.G. Nightmare Shroud says specifically not in CC) EDIT: Neither does it say "instead of firing a weapon" simply "May not move or shoot", if both these requirements are met what is stopping me?

A good RAW question! I will go on a limb as it is generally accepted that you can not deploy the portal in close combat, pinned or fleeing. Since the rule does say that instead of moving and shooting you can drop the portal I would have to say that you would have to be in a condition to be able to move or shoot. If you are locked in close combat then you are not able to move or shoot so you are not able to drop the portal. Being pinned is easy as you can not move or shoot there and you can’t while you are fleeing as you have to be stationary “that turn” (the codex does say “turn”, not phase).

So there you have it, if you are unable to move or shoot then you are unable to drop the portal.

5) If Enemy models "Fall Back" into my Webway portal are they destroyed due to it being my table edge? Or do they go around it?

There is nothing really to indicate that its impassable or whatever so I wouldn’t have a problem with enemy models moving over it. If you use a special model to represent it and its physically impossible to balance a model on it then I would say its impassable (like using the actual vortex grenade template, a half sphere).

6) Do weapon mounts on DE vehicles have a 360 degree LOS? The ones I bought are glued down with a magnet on top of them, but the way they connect together would seem to indicate the gun can indeed spin around. Ignore the warrior holding the gun for this question.

I play it as 180 but I am not sure why my raider would be pointed one way and have to shoot the other. The vehicle is AV10 all around and my models can disembark from the rear of the raider just as easily. However, if you the model allows you to turn the gun 270 degrees then I would allow it but to say it can fire directly backwards is silly (just turn the damn model).

7) Will choosing "always strike first" for combat drugs beat a Banshees mask? It says regardless of weapons or cover, but not wargear.

As the others have mentioned, strikes first means strikes first.

8) Will a small blast marker from a unit killed by a Stinger scatter? The text lends itself to just placing and not moving it, but the 5th rules say all blasts scatter.

No, it’s a dart that hits a model and after it wounds it explodes. Blast weapons do not operate this way as the scatter determines the hit as the stinger uses the models WS. Also understand that the opponent gets to pick which model explodes so guess which model it is going to hit?

9) If a fearless unit is defeated in CC by a unit of Grotesques, do they take No Retreat! wounds automatically due to Terrifying Opponent rule? Does it even matter>?

It doesn’t matter. A fearless unit that loses combat suffers no retreat no matter what.

10) If a Dreadnought shoots my Raider but does not blow it up, with a Razorback shooting next and killing it, can the Dreadnought charge the passengers? The Text for assaulting passengers is a bit vague since it simply says "shoot at the transport". The text implies that the unit who assaults the passengers be the one who killed the transport, but it is a bit unclear. Or maybe I am just reading it wrong?

Yes, the Dreadnaught may charge the raider squad it shot at. Although the example in book explains the same model that wrecked it then got to charge it I would say it doesn’t matter if it wrecked it or not, it shot at it and now it gets to charge the passengers.

11) Due to the wording on the Grotesque's Feel No Pain, am I correct in understanding that unless you shoot the squad (with a IC in it) with a Str 6+ weapon every shot is discounted? Due to it negating "hits" and not "wounds", you do not accolate hits in 5th which turns the Grotesques into a "mystic Shield" for the IC. Am I correct?

I agree with your statement. We do not allocate “hits”, only “wounds” so if the majority of the squad is Grotesques then the “hits” are directed at the grotesques. Unless there is a wound that is generated from the hits then there are no wounds to allocate. Simply, those hits are never converted to wounds and thus there is nothing to allocate.

12) Am I correct in assuming due to the rewrite of the Reaver Jetbike in the FAQ that I can now take 2H weapons such as the Punisher?

Yes, by default the complete replacement of the Reaver Jetbike entry omits the whole restriction of one-handed weapons. Now, the Dark Eldar are now on par with the rest of the game as all the other “bikers” got to use 2-handed weapons long ago back in 4th.

Hope that gives you a different perspective! Good luck and happy hunting!!!

Gwar! wrote:Not got my codex on me atm, but I'll answer the ones I can with a modicum of Certainty

Ragewind wrote:3) Do the Spoiler fins or the fitted blades count as part of the hull for LOS purposes? Specifically for Cover saves from Terrain or other models.

They don't count as hull, but they do count for LoS

But but Gwar! You cannot have it both ways, while I 100% agree they do not count as part of the Hull (the same way wings or Dozer blades do not), you need to target the hull to draw LOS to the vehicle. Otherwise you cannot shoot the Raider.

EDIT :

The deployment rules for the WW portal read something along the lines of "place the tip of the blast marker in contact with the models base". Based off that wording, you would have to deploy the portal touching the base or hull of the Raider, not in it.

Are not effects generated from the embarked passengers measured from the transports hull?

Ragewind wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Not got my codex on me atm, but I'll answer the ones I can with a modicum of Certainty

Ragewind wrote:3) Do the Spoiler fins or the fitted blades count as part of the hull for LOS purposes? Specifically for Cover saves from Terrain or other models.

They don't count as hull, but they do count for LoS

But but Gwar! You cannot have it both ways, while I 100% agree they do not count as part of the Hull (the same way wings or Dozer blades do not), you need to target the hull to draw LOS to the vehicle. Otherwise you cannot shoot the Raider.

Actually, you can. You can model a Tank with a 12" tall banner. The banner Blocks LoS, but cannot be used to draw LOS to it. Legal, but a dick move. Read the Section on drawing LoS to vehicles again.

Are not effects generated from the embarked passengers measured from the transports hull?

Yes, but he's trying to deploy the WW IN the transport, and that's not possible since the template must be deployed touching edge to edge with the models base.

He sure could deploy it FROM the transport, using any part of the hull as the contact point, but not in it.


Edit; Sh*t I just re-read your OP, I'm sorry reading skillz were a little slow yesterday.

Yeah, you got it right, as long as the Raider hasn't moved, you are free to delpoy the template from any spot on the hull.



...........Doh

P.S. Wouldn't that be cool as hell though? A raider flying around 24" a turn with a WW portal deployed inside, dropping off payloads of other raiders/ravagers every turn?

SsevenN wrote:

Are not effects generated from the embarked passengers measured from the transports hull?

Yes, but he's trying to deploy the WW IN the transport, and that's not possible since the template must be deployed touching edge to edge with the models base.

He sure could deploy it FROM the transport, using any part of the hull as the contact point, but not in it.


Edit; Sh*t I just re-read your OP, I'm sorry reading skillz were a little slow yesterday.

Yeah, you got it right, as long as the Raider hasn't moved, you are free to delpoy the template from any spot on the hull.



...........Doh

P.S. Wouldn't that be cool as hell though? A raider flying around 24" a turn with a WW portal deployed inside, dropping off payloads of other raiders/ravagers every turn?

Cool or Crazy?

I agree with your statement. We do not allocate “hits”, only “wounds” so if the majority of the squad is Grotesques then the “hits” are directed at the grotesques. Unless there is a wound that is generated from the hits then there are no wounds to allocate. Simply, those hits are never converted to wounds and thus there is nothing to allocate.

I must disagree. It is true we don't allocate hits, but squad special rules do not carry over to a joined IC. So while the Grotesques my ignore those shots, the IC doesn't, meaning you still have to resolve them as wounds, as they could effect the non-immune IC.

Ragewind wrote:

SsevenN wrote:

Are not effects generated from the embarked passengers measured from the transports hull?

Yes, but he's trying to deploy the WW IN the transport, and that's not possible since the template must be deployed touching edge to edge with the models base.

He sure could deploy it FROM the transport, using any part of the hull as the contact point, but not in it.


Edit; Sh*t I just re-read your OP, I'm sorry reading skillz were a little slow yesterday.

Yeah, you got it right, as long as the Raider hasn't moved, you are free to delpoy the template from any spot on the hull.



...........Doh

P.S. Wouldn't that be cool as hell though? A raider flying around 24" a turn with a WW portal deployed inside, dropping off payloads of other raiders/ravagers every turn?

Cool or Crazy?

Both.

It would be perfect for 'ard boyz too, just about as cheesy as it gets.

Too bad it's not legal.

Mars.Techpriest wrote:

I agree with your statement. We do not allocate “hits”, only “wounds” so if the majority of the squad is Grotesques then the “hits” are directed at the grotesques. Unless there is a wound that is generated from the hits then there are no wounds to allocate. Simply, those hits are never converted to wounds and thus there is nothing to allocate.

I must disagree. It is true we don't allocate hits, but squad special rules do not carry over to a joined IC. So while the Grotesques my ignore those shots, the IC doesn't, meaning you still have to resolve them as wounds, as they could effect the non-immune IC.

Ah but you cannot place wounds without first seeing the hits.

Well, what you do is, roll to wound as normal (i.e. against the majority toughness) then assign the wounds. Any wounds S5 or less assigned to the Grotesques don't do anything.

Gwar! wrote:Well, what you do is, roll to wound as normal (i.e. against the majority toughness) then assign the wounds. Any wounds S5 or less assigned to the Grotesques don't do anything.

Thats not how it works however

1) Roll to hit using the models BS

2) Roll to wound based on weapons STR compared to models Toughness

3) Make saving through where AP permits.

What would end up happening is when you shoot with some bolters and get 5 hits, you check to see if they are STR 6 or higher, if not then they are discounted before rolling to wound.

Ragewind wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Well, what you do is, roll to wound as normal (i.e. against the majority toughness) then assign the wounds. Any wounds S5 or less assigned to the Grotesques don't do anything.

Thats not how it works however

1) Roll to hit using the models BS

2) Roll to wound based on weapons STR compared to models Toughness

3) Make saving through where AP permits.

What would end up happening is when you shoot with some bolters and get 5 hits, you check to see if they are STR 6 or higher, if not then they are discounted before rolling to wound.

Hmm, it seems you are correct there. I neglected to double check the wording in the DE codex.

My bad

Gwar! wrote:

Ragewind wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Well, what you do is, roll to wound as normal (i.e. against the majority toughness) then assign the wounds. Any wounds S5 or less assigned to the Grotesques don't do anything.

Thats not how it works however

1) Roll to hit using the models BS

2) Roll to wound based on weapons STR compared to models Toughness

3) Make saving through where AP permits.

What would end up happening is when you shoot with some bolters and get 5 hits, you check to see if they are STR 6 or higher, if not then they are discounted before rolling to wound.

Hmm, it seems you are correct there. I neglected to double check the wording in the DE codex.

My bad

I have lost all faith in you Gwar! /cry

I was not wrong, I just forgot to read the codex. Very different.

Wrong is when I have all the information correct, but use it incorrectly.

Misinformed is when I don't bother to doublecheck

Gwar! wrote:I was not wrong, I just forgot to read the codex. Very different.

Wrong is when I have all the information correct, but use it incorrectly.

Misinformed is when I don't bother to doublecheck

touche'

Gwar! wrote:

Ragewind wrote:But but Gwar! You cannot have it both ways, while I 100% agree they do not count as part of the Hull (the same way wings or Dozer blades do not), you need to target the hull to draw LOS to the vehicle. Otherwise you cannot shoot the Raider.

Actually, you can. You can model a Tank with a 12" tall banner. The banner Blocks LoS, but cannot be used to draw LOS to it. Legal, but a dick move. Read the Section on drawing LoS to vehicles again.

You are absolutely correct in your example Gwar, a banner on a tank would block line of sight to things behind it, but because it's not part of the hull you can't use it to draw LOS to the vehicle (which is done to the hull or turret). The thing is it doesn't line up with the raider example, either the fins are part of the hull or they aren't, and while they block LOS regardless, if they aren't part of the hull then you can't draw LOS to them for the purpose of shooting the raider however.

edit: Just re-read your original post Gwar, I misread it at first, seems you were saying they were the same as a banner, oops.

Ragewind wrote:
1) Is there anything preventing me from deploying a webway portal from inside my transport in 5th ed?

Yes, you must place the marker in "base contact" with the model deploying it and that is impossible to do with a model that is off the table (inside a vehicle). Placing something in "base contact" is not "measur[ing] range" and is therefore not something you are allowed to place on the hull of the embarked vehicle.

2) Is the Webway portal a large or small blast? Does it matter either way?

The small marker. The "normal" size for a blast marker (pg 30 of the rulebook) is the small one, so in this case since they just say "blast marker" it means the (normal) small one.

3) Do the Spoiler fins or the fitted blades count as part of the hull for LOS purposes? Specifically for Cover saves from Terrain or other models.

It depends on how you and your opponent choose to define a vehicle's hull as explained on page 60 of the rulebook. You definitely want to discuss this with your opponent before the game to decide how you're going to play.

4) Can I deploy the portal while locked in CC? Reading the text one would infer its a heavy weapon, but it is not actually a weapon of any sort. As a piece of wargear with no restriction on its usage is this okay? (E.G. Nightmare Shroud says specifically not in CC) EDIT: Neither does it say "instead of firing a weapon" simply "May not move or shoot", if both these requirements are met what is stopping me?

You need to place the marker touching the model's base, so if you're locked in combat you may have a hard time setting down the marker (and if you can't, it wouldn't be a legal deployment). Beyond that, I don't see any rules stopping you from deploying the portal from a model locked in combat.

5) If Enemy models "Fall Back" into my Webway portal are they destroyed due to it being my table edge? Or do they go around it?

There are no rules about the webway portal being impassable terrain or having any effect on enemy models, so they would be able to fall back right over it (although if you both agree you could obviously come up with house rules allowing the models to fall back around it if you wanted).

6) Do weapon mounts on DE vehicles have a 360 degree LOS? The ones I bought are glued down with a magnet on top of them, but the way they connect together would seem to indicate the gun can indeed spin around. Ignore the warrior holding the gun for this question.

See the rulebook online FAQ from GW. If the weapon looks like it should be able to pivot and shoot then it can.

7) Will choosing "always strike first" for combat drugs beat a Banshees mask? It says regardless of weapons or cover, but not wargear.

Yes. This is one of those legacy codex RAW wordings that gives players of older codexes an advantage over newer ones.

8) Will a small blast marker from a unit killed by a Stinger scatter? The text lends itself to just placing and not moving it, but the 5th rules say all blasts scatter.

If you and your opponent both understand how the rules have changed from 3rd edition to 5th edition then you can both agree to play it that the blast stays centered on the model and anyone else it touches is now hit automatically in 5th edition.

However if you want to stick with the strict RAW then yes, the blast would be centered over the dying model and then scatter would be rolled for as normal. . .even though it doesn't make any sense from a fluff point of view (but who cares? I guess you could imagine that perhaps the dying guy stumbles around before he explodes).

9) If a fearless unit is defeated in CC by a unit of Grotesques, do they take No Retreat! wounds automatically due to Terrifying Opponent rule? Does it even matter>?

??? Fearless units who lose combat are already taking No Retreat wounds. Terrifying Opponent does nothing to change this.

10) If a Dreadnought shoots my Raider but does not blow it up, with a Razorback shooting next and killing it, can the Dreadnought charge the passengers? The Text for assaulting passengers is a bit vague since it simply says "shoot at the transport". The text implies that the unit who assaults the passengers be the one who killed the transport, but it is a bit unclear. Or maybe I am just reading it wrong?

It isn't unclear. The use of the word "the" in: "the unit that shot it may assault the now disembarked passengers. . ." makes it crystal clear that the rule is referring only to the actual unit that destroyed the transport vehicle.

11) Due to the wording on the Grotesque's Feel No Pain, am I correct in understanding that unless you shoot the squad (with a IC in it) with a Str 6+ weapon every shot is discounted? Due to it negating "hits" and not "wounds", you do not accolate hits in 5th which turns the Grotesques into a "mystic Shield" for the IC. Am I correct?

This is a very good question that does not have a (very) clear answer.

One interpretation would be to say that since an IC joining a unit does not benefit from a unit's special rules (unless the rule specifically says that they do) this mean that Grotesques with a joined IC would be unable to utilize this rule as there is no way by the RAW to separate out the hits between the Grotesques and the IC before the 'to wound' rolls are made. This is very harsh but doesn't really breaks any rules.

Another interpretation would be to say that the joined IC benefits from their special rule. This however breaks the rules for special rules being given to ICs joining units (on page 48 of the rulebook).

The third alternative would be to do a little 5th edition 'fudging' to say that you don't apply this rule until after the 'to wound' rolls are complete and you allocate the wounds out to the models in the unit. You would then ignore any wounds allocated to the Grotesques that aren't high enough and work out the wounds against the IC normally. Obviously this slightly changes the Grotesques 'Feel No Pain' rule a bit, but provides the simplest way to still utilize the rule in the game (but, of course, you'd need to get your opponent's permission before you attempt to play this way).

12) Am I correct in assuming due to the rewrite of the Reaver Jetbike in the FAQ that I can now take 2H weapons such as the Punisher?

Correct.

Yakeface - I wish to disagree with you on #1, the reason being is the Template rules for items such as a Flamer use the exact same wording and GW has made it clear you place it along any point from the Hull.

As far as the Grotesque's unit with a IC, I think you'd have to deal with it like a complex unit. Pure and simple. Very similar to the Torrent of Fire rule.

If the unit was 8 strong plus a IC and took 9 bolter rounds, the IC would be forced to take the 9th shot. If they got hit with a frag shot and he had a Shadow Field you could save it on him to save a Grotesque. Although missing that save costs you quite a bit!!

Facet_X wrote:As far as the Grotesque's unit with a IC, I think you'd have to deal with it like a complex unit. Pure and simple. Very similar to the Torrent of Fire rule.

If the unit was 8 strong plus a IC and took 9 bolter rounds, the IC would be forced to take the 9th shot. If they got hit with a frag shot and he had a Shadow Field you could save it on him to save a Grotesque. Although missing that save costs you quite a bit!!

I would agree but thats not how the rule is written, playing it correctly would be allowing your opponent to roll his dice and calculate hits. Then any that are STR 6 or more would be assinged as normal. The fact the IC is attached is irrelevent due to the fact the attacks are still being directed aganst a Grotesque squad.

Ragewind wrote:

Facet_X wrote:As far as the Grotesque's unit with a IC, I think you'd have to deal with it like a complex unit. Pure and simple. Very similar to the Torrent of Fire rule.

If the unit was 8 strong plus a IC and took 9 bolter rounds, the IC would be forced to take the 9th shot. If they got hit with a frag shot and he had a Shadow Field you could save it on him to save a Grotesque. Although missing that save costs you quite a bit!!

I would agree but thats not how the rule is written, playing it correctly would be allowing your opponent to roll his dice and calculate hits. Then any that are STR 6 or more would be assinged as normal. The fact the IC is attached is irrelevent due to the fact the attacks are still being directed aganst a Grotesque squad.

Hit's are not assigned in 5th edition, only wounds are. Yay for Legacy Codexes!

Hmm... I thought the shooting phase worked like this against a 10 man squad (9 Grotesques and a Dracon) and as I've played it...

Roll to hit...we'll say 10 hits.

Roll to wound using majority T (Which is all 3) we'll say 6 wounds.

I would get to allocate those wounds to any model in the unit being shot at. And since those aren't S6 they would be ignored.

If the wound count goes over I still get to assign which models take which wound. I can have the Dracon take the S 4 hit from a Bolter and let a Grot take a S 6 shot.

Is this correct? If not could you explain where I've played it wrong?

Thanks.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ahhh... I see where I missed it!!

I missed the way the 'Feel No Pain' rule is written. "they ignore shooting hits from weapons whose Strength is not at least twice their T."

Wow that makes a huge difference. I think it takes away the chance of nailing the IC with the squad cause they are ignored.

Facet_X wrote:Ahhh... I see where I missed it!!

I missed the way the 'Feel No Pain' rule is written. "they ignore shooting hits from weapons whose Strength is not at least twice their T."

Wow that makes a huge difference. I think it takes away the chance of nailing the IC with the squad cause they are ignored.

Yup. it's actually a case of Legacy Codex not meshing well with New Edition, but that's the breaks The rule prevents any HITS of S5 or less from doing anything, so there is no way to cause a wound to be allocated to an IC attached to them unless you somehow got Unit Strength +1 S6 hits on the unit (I hear Triple Basilisks do quite well at that )

Oh yes. So how about taking wounds from a vehicle destroyed result?

They are hit by S 3. Will they ignore those as well?

I may have to reconsider Grots for my army. Maybe...

Facet_X wrote:Oh yes. So how about taking wounds from a vehicle destroyed result?

They are hit by S 3. Will they ignore those as well?

I may have to reconsider Grots for my army. Maybe...

Being hurt by a Vehicle going assplody is treated "exactly like shooting", so yes they would ignore them. However, being on a Transport that goes Flat Out and is then Destroyed instagibs them.

Ragewind wrote:Yakeface - I wish to disagree with you on #1, the reason being is the Template rules for items such as a Flamer use the exact same wording and GW has made it clear you place it along any point from the Hull.

Where has GW made that clear regarding how template weapons are used by embarked models? I certainly haven't seen that referenced anywhere. AFAIK, the only rules in play are that embarked models shooting from a vehicle measure range and LOS from the actual fire point (pg 66).

While you are definitely right that the general rules for firing a template weapon require you to place it in base contact with the firing model, the rules for embarked models are more specific. Instead of measuring range from a model's base (as you normally do), you measure range and LOS from the fire point, ergo you would place the template touching the fire point of the vehicle.


But a Webway portal is not a shooting attack (or a template weapon). It is a special rule that requires you to place the blast marker in base contact with the model who is carrying it. There are no rules (such as the fire point rules for embarked firing models) allowing you to ignore this rule and place the marker touching the vehicle instead.

Yakface, you are correct.

Nice call, I didn't take that in to consideration. The WW portal is not shooting. The WW portal rule specificly states the template must be placed base to base with the model that activated it, you can't place the template base to base if the minature is embarked in a transport.

cheers.

yakface wrote:

Ragewind wrote:Yakeface - I wish to disagree with you on #1, the reason being is the Template rules for items such as a Flamer use the exact same wording and GW has made it clear you place it along any point from the Hull.

Where has GW made that clear regarding how template weapons are used by embarked models? I certainly haven't seen that referenced anywhere. AFAIK, the only rules in play are that embarked models shooting from a vehicle measure range and LOS from the actual fire point (pg 66).

While you are definitely right that the general rules for firing a template weapon require you to place it in base contact with the firing model, the rules for embarked models are more specific. Instead of measuring range from a model's base (as you normally do), you measure range and LOS from the fire point, ergo you would place the template touching the fire point of the vehicle.


But a Webway portal is not a shooting attack (or a template weapon). It is a special rule that requires you to place the blast marker in base contact with the model who is carrying it. There are no rules (such as the fire point rules for embarked firing models) allowing you to ignore this rule and place the marker touching the vehicle instead.

This is almost correct, there are no firepoints in a vehicle that has the open topped special rule, as such needing to place the shot at the firepoint is rendered invalid. Since the rules for placing the WWP is exactly the same as the template rules, and because the vehicle will be open topped you use the hull of the attendant vehicle for the placing.

If not in the BRB, I believe it is clarified in a FAQ, might be orks. I remember some question about multiple burnas firing from a battlewagon.